The My Little Pony comic book and cartoon continuities

[Antvasima]

@Lightbuster30 and @Amelia_Lonelyheart have written the following draft as a justification for merging together the cartoon and comic book continuities for the My Little Pony character profile pages:

Lightbuster30/sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

The main problem as I perceive it, is that if Hasbro has stated that the cartoon automatically overwrites the continuity of the comic books, this does not imply that the comic books are canon to the cartoon, but rather the opposite, and that other members will notice this in the explanation as well, and likely use it as a precedent to argue for cross-scaling between different continuities of other franchises, or crossovers that they have been engaged in, which would be hell to deal with in the long run, and lead to a gradual severe decline in the overall reliability for this wiki.

We have previously had a long discussion regarding this subject here:

https://vsbattles.com/profile-posts/comments/1769/

I would greatly appreciate if you could read and evaluate it, and comment here afterwards.

@Eficiente @Dargoo_Faust, @Wokistan @Damage3245 @Mr._Bambu @ByAsura @AKM sama

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I believe it was brought up before, and I seems agreed we should avoid cross scaling the IDW comics to the main canon yes.

 

[Wokistan]

Aren't they fairly distinct in terms of tiers and shit? Seems like this would just result in most of the comics stuff being invalidated since they'd become outliers if you try to merge with the main series.

 

[Lightbuster30]

The main problem as I perceive it, is that if Hasbro has stated that the cartoon automatically overwrites the continuity of the comic books, this does not imply that the comic books are canon to the cartoon, but rather the opposite, and that other members will notice this in the explanation as well, and likely use it as a precedent to ]

Are you joking? After everything we discussed? How? How could anyone possibly come to this conclusion? No one said the cartoon automatically overwrites the comic books. All that was said was the cartoon had the authority to overwrite them. The authority. It doesn't mean they instantly overwrite everything.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Aren't they fairly distinct in terms of tiers and shit? Seems like this would just result in most of the comics stuff being invalidated since they'd become outliers if you try to merge with the main series.

First off: No they aren't. The cartoon has some tier 3 statements in the finale, and the god tiers are a tier above that, and both are tier 4, they don't have massive strength differences. Where on earth are you getting this?

 

[Lightbuster30]

I believe it was brought up before, and I seems agreed we should avoid cross scaling the IDW comics to the main canon yes.

Yes medeus: BEFORE. In the past. I actually made good arguments this time, but someone is afraid of falling down a slippery slope for using heavily supported tweets even though we let this shit slide like for metric tons of universes and with less evidence supporting them.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Everything about the comics being non-canon was either disproven by Light, or was pure head-canon on others' parts. Everyhing points them to being canon, but staff, to corporate, to in-universe information. The 'disparity in tiers' is no longer an issue, as the final episodes of the cartoon also put Discord roughly on the same level as he is in the comics, with statements that he can warp the entire universe if he so chose. There is nothing more to discuss unless you're this scared of the so-called "slippery slope".

 

[Lightbuster30]

Everything about the comics being non-canon was either disproven by Light, or was pure head-canon on others' parts. Everyhing points them to being canon, but staff, to corporate, to in-universe information. The 'disparity in tiers' is no longer an issue, as the final episodes of the cartoon also put Discord roughly on the same level as he is in the comics, with statements that he can warp the entire universe if he so chose. There is nothing more to discuss unless you're this scared of the so-called "slippery slope".

Holy crap you have no idea how true this is. How the hell anyone can reach the conclusion that I implied the cartoon automatically overwrites everything is beyond my comprehension.

It's on the talk page @Antvasima I explained it to you as clear cut as it could possibly be. You know damn well what I meant by that after the way I explained it to you several comments back on your wall.

 

[Antvasima]

Are you joking? After everything we discussed? How? How could anyone possibly come to this conclusion? No one said the cartoon automatically overwrites the comic books. All that was said was the cartoon had the authority to overwrite them. The authority. It doesn't mean they instant;y, overwrite everything.

Well, I have a hard time keeping track of the exact contents of long discussions, due to that I get constantly interrupted by a legion of other tasks in-between the replies. I mainly grew concerned from the way that you worded your draft/blog post.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Well, I have a hard time keeping track of the exact contents of long discussions, due to that I get constantly interrupted by a legion of other tasks in-between the replies. I mainly grew concerned from the way that you worded your draft/blog post.

How? How could anyone misinterpret what was said that badly? All I said was that the comic had the authority to overwrite things as Hasbro told Andy they did. All I said was that Hasbro would veto comic book arcs from being if the cartoon would handle it to avoid infringing on the cartoons canon. How does that imply the cartoon automatically retcons all the comics? It just means Hasbro doesn't want the comics to infringe on the cartoons canon. If you had a problem with it you could've told me instead of making a thread behind my back while wording things as badly as possible.

while wording things as badly as possible.

And this right here is what pisses me off more than anything.

 

[Antvasima]

I just meant that if the official policy is that it could and did routinely retcon the comicbooks, a lot of members will likely interpet it that way, which would be an ongoing headache to deal with in the long run, at least the way that the blog/draft is currently worded.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I just meant that if the official policy is that it could and did routinely retcon the comicbooks, a lot of members will likely interpet it that way, which would be an ongoing headache to deal with in the long run, at least the way that the blog/draft is currently worded.

It routinely retconned small crap that doesn't influence any of the major story arcs in the long run and it was mostly accidentally. Do you have any idea how often the show does this to itself? Small retcons don't amount to anything.

 

[AKM sama]

@Lightbuster30 relax. That kind of tone won't get this thread anywhere. Keep the aggression away from this thread.

 

[Lightbuster30]

@Lightbuster30 relax. That kind of tone won't get this thread anywhere. Keep the aggression away from this thread.

Do you have any idea how much stress this has put on me? After arguing for 2 weeks straight feeling like stuff is going nowhere, I finally reach an accord with him, and I wake up to find a thread trying to word things as badly as possible instead of talking it out.

 

[AKM sama]

That doesn't mean you have to be aggressive. Take a step back if you're getting stressed. Nobody is forcing you to do this.

 

[Antvasima]

As I mentioned, I have a hard time keeping track of long threads, and thought that the blog worded things in a way that can easily be interpreted in a problematic manner.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

They only retcon the comics three times in any noteworthy capacity, which might sound like a lot, but when you considered there are over 200 episodes and 160+ issues, it's really not that bad in the long run, so no, they did not "routinely retcon" the comics. The retcons are:

1. Sombra's history and Siege arc, which were not canonized in season 10 and were otherwise self-contained stories.
2. The Dazzing's backstory, which was a self-contained one-shot that, again, was not canonized.
3. Lofty and Holiday having a different appearance, which was from a self-contained limited series, and was also not canonized.

And yeah, the cartoon retconned itself a ton of times too. There was a point where Canterlot was described as a kingdom, characters appear in time periods where they shouldn't be chronologically (for example, Lyra was retconned to be the same age as Twilight, but has appeared as an adult several times in flashbacks), characters go through multiple names in canon, like Derpy being Derpy but then Muffins in laer episodes. By this same logic, we shouldn't use the cartoon as canon either.

 

[Lightbuster30]

That doesn't mean you have to be aggressive. Take a step back if you're getting stressed. Nobody is forcing you to do this.

I am. I've been pushing this for months not counting the talk page, wanting it for years, and I finally come up with something that works only for it to feel like everything is falling apart at the last second all because of a misunderstanding. The comics mean as much to me as the cartoon itself, and I feel like I've been looking at a fractured canon for years every time I came here. There's a lot riding on this for me personally.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, I am trying to talk things out, but our lacklustre forum message walls are very ill-suited for official decisions.

 

[AKM sama]

I am. I've been pushing this for months not counting the talk page, wanting it for years, and I finally come up with something that works only for it to feel like everything falling apart at the last second all because of a misunderstanding. The comics mean as much to me as the cartoon itself, and I feel like I've been looking at a fractured canon for years every time I came here. There's a lot riding on this for me personally.

Again, point still stands. Don't be aggressive. And stop responding with derailing comments from now on.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that Amelia makes a good point though, but we need to avoid problematic interpretations of the explanation text that lead to bad precedents for other verses in the future.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I suppose that Amelia makes a good point though, but we need to avoid problematic interpretations of the explanation text that lead to bad precedents for other verses in the future.

If we reword the problematic portions of the text, then would the general text be fine? It is a rough draft mind you and can easily be edited if you think things are worded awkwardly.

@Amelia_Lonelyheart Can you think of better ways to word the parts Ant is worried about? I myself have difficulty putting thoughts into words, so I think you would be better at that.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Which parts are considered problematic?

 

[Antvasima]

The parts I mentioned earlier about that the cartoons overwrite the comic books likely needs to somehow be clarified to avoid misunderstandings.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Okay, instead of "Such as Jeremy Whitley bringing up the cartoon having the power to overwrite comic arcs, which directly references the tweet.", it's "Such as Jeremy Whitley bringing up the cartoon having the power to overwrite comic arcs, which directly references the tweet. Such as Jeremy Whitley bringing up the fact that Hasbro could veto any story pitch they so chose".

 

[Antvasima]

I think that you accidentally miswrote the second quote.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I think that you accidentally miswrote the second quote.

How so?

 

[Antvasima]

It uses "Such as Jeremy Whitley bringing up the" twice.

 

[Lightbuster30]

It uses "Such as Jeremy Whitley bringing up the" twice.

Then what about the same quote but this "Such as Jeremy Whitley bringing up the fact that Hasbro could veto any story pitch they so chose to avoid breaking canon of the show."

I think that the last part makes things more clear and explains why they would veto certain stuff.

 

[Antvasima]

"Such as Jeremy Whitley bringing up the fact that Hasbro could veto any story pitch they so chose to avoid breaking the canon of the TV show" is fine in itself, but we should preferably mention "that the cartoon had the power to overwrite comic book storyarcs" somehow to not omit important information, just add some extra explanation regarding why it does not mean that the comic books are non-canon.

 

[Lightbuster30]

"Such as Jeremy Whitley bringing up the fact that Hasbro could veto any story pitch they so chose to avoid breaking the canon of the TV show" is fine in itself, but we should preferably mention "that the cartoon had the power to overwrite comic book storyarcs" somehow to not omit important information, just add some extra explanation regarding why it does not mean that the comic books are non-canon.

Oh, oh I see now, it was the wording that felt off. I can see why using the same set of words twice in a row would be awkward. We can keep that for sure. I'll be back in 5 however. Something needs my attention right now. It's short but still needs it. Won't even know I left.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Ok, what about this then: "Such as Jeremy Whitley bringing up the cartoon having the power to overwrite comic arcs, which directly references the tweet. This is further shown with Jeremy Whitley bringing up the fact that Hasbro could veto any story pitch they so chose in order to avoid breaking canon."

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I will say Amelia does make some solid points, and I can understand Lightbusters side that U-turns happening too fast are easy to make someone stressed. But I agree with AKM Sama that he has been too blunt. I watched every episode of the show, but haven't read any of the comics. So my knowledge isn't 100% spot on, but I recall both sides are good at making strong arguments.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we still need a more elaborate explanation that is easy to understand for casual visitors.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I like to imagine that is pretty elaborate. Also, leaving right now to vote, so I can't give any suggestions for a bit. I just asked Amelia about this on Discord. Hopefully, she can you something while I'm gone.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Welp, Amelia certainly isn't happy about the hold-ups from her reaction. I am not entirely certain if she is commenting on the thread anymore or not. But I can see where she's coming from. We're already saying why they are considered secondary in the first paragraph and then explaining the stuff that supports it, like Season 10 referencing the comics for instance. I'm pretty sure casual viewers will get the memo easily enough. They're casual, not stupid.

If we really need to be more elaborate with the wording I can try and come up with something. Though it'd be easier if I knew which parts specifically you wanted elaboration on.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I just want to make certain that our members and visitors do understand why we consider the cartoon and comic books part of the same continuity. That is all.

@AKM sama can you help out with improving on the draft text please, or should I send notifications to some other administrators to help us out?

 

[Lightbuster30]

He seems like he's gone to bed but idk, he usually doesn't seem to be as active later in the day and I'd rather not wait until tomorrow. As I said, if I knew what parts you needed elaboration on, I could make the edits to the sandbox. I'd rather not edit the whole thing while blindly guessing at what needs elaboration.

 

[Wokistan]

First off: No they aren't. The cartoon has some tier 3 statements in the finale, and the god tiers are a tier above that, and both are tier 4, they don't have massive strength differences. Where on earth are you getting this?

4-A to 4-B is a really large gap, and that seems to be a thing that's present.

 

[Lightbuster30]

4-A to 4-B is a really large gap, and that seems to be a thing that's present.

If that's the only strength discrepancy, then that's not a very good basis to call non-canon. Especially when we're actively told how canon is supposed to operate. Clearly strength discrepancy isn't counted as an issue, otherwise, Hasbro would never allow such comics to be published. Seeing as they don't want anything infringing on the cartoons canon.