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The Man of Steel vs...a Cloud

Kracko's profile lists, among other powers & abilities: Immortality (Type 8, exists as long as there are clouds in the sky. Not limited to one planet), Regenerationn (Mid-High)

Type 8 Immortality: 8: Reliant Immortality: The power to be immortal so long as a certain object, person, concept etc. exists. Mid-High Regenerationn: Mid-High: Able to regenerate from being vaporized/dust.

I also don't know the specifics of this Superman's Regenerative Healing Factor, & Longevity.

Presumably it's a safe assumption Superman doesn't know about Kracko's type of immortality.

So, I imagine after a lot of fighting, he could try freezing Kracko with his ice breath, maybe planning to keep it like that. Victory through making Kracko unconscious for an hour or more, or making it unable to harm anyone for at least a day! Or throw it into the sun, right?

....Except I'm unsure Kracko couldn't just melt the ice with electricity while frozen. It depends on how able to act it is, I suppose. Maybe Superman could try taking it into space? Can Kracko survive in space?

I can say that Supes would probably figure out that Kracko comes back as long as there's clouds before Kracko finds out Superman is weak to Kryptonite.

So the deciding factor seems to be just if Superman's "Regenerative Healing Factor" & Longevitiy can keep him alive long enough to realize Kracko stays alive as long as there's clouds on a planet.

There's also the question of "What if Kracko can stay in the fight as long as Superman hasn't gotten rid of EVERY cloud on EVERY planet in the setting?".

Although, if Supes gets rid of clouds on Earth, & Kracko comes back/regenerates/stays alive because of clouds on another planet, Superman might get thrown off. Unsure if that'd happen, & I'm unclear how much influence on the chances of it happening Kracko has.

If, despite their Regenerationn & Kracko's immortality, it does actually come down to a fair fight, even if it's after a thorough removal of other clouds, it's hard to be sure. By the time that's the case, both might have taken & healed off considerable damage.

Kracko's got plenty of range, summons might help, as might its size manipulation, to evade or otherwise.

Superman is probably better in melee, & his Freeze Breath possibly immobilizing Kracko might help get some hits in. Likewise, his skill could help him evade attacks. His "At least Planetary" Range to Kracko's Planetary Range also helps him.

If one or both of them DO eventually become able to kill each other, it comes down to who has how much stamina left after the fight during cloud clearing, & who can fight better to take advantage of or make up for a stamina difference.

However, it would appear Superman has the higher AP & Durability. "According to Shamrodia, it was day when he left and still day when he returned, so a very conservative estimate would be 6 hours for the trip there and 6 hours back, which gives us a KE of 14.7207011 ninatons. Probably higher, though."

"Large Planet level (Stronger than Knuckle Joe)" 2,514 Yottatons.

Assuming I'm reading this right, 1 ninaton is 1000 yottatons.

Since Kracko is stronger than Knuckle Joe's 2,514 Yottatons (By an amount I don't know.), & 14.7207011 ninatons is 14720.7011 yottatons is UP TO 5.855 (My calculator gives a lot of digits after what I posted, but I'm sure you all can do the math yourself.) times stronger in AP & Dura than Kracko.

So without knowing how much stronger than Knuckle Joe Kracko is, it seems like Superman has a moderate advantage statistically, but ultimately, it comes down to how their Regenerationn, the Immortality, & Superman's ability to figure out Kracko's weakness in time.

I'm unsure Superman can actually win if he can't get past Kracko's Immortality, but it seems like he could work around with it considerable effort once he finds out about it. But I don't know if his regenerative abilities can last him that long or not. More info on that needed. Also, more details on the specifics of how it works probably influence who I think would win, especially given SBA.

Sorry about all the words.
 
I do tend to be verbose. Hope you appreciate it, & it's fine if not, sorry for any bother! Although, I'm unsure if it's an explanation lol. If I had to try to summarize it better....

1. Superman has about 5.855 the AP (& by presumable extension, the Dura) of Kracko. Or less than roughly 5.855, depending on how much higher than Knuckle Joe Kracko is.

2. Kracko has Type 8 Immortality, based on there being clouds in the sky. Thus, Superman's ability to win, through a typical fight, SBA or otherwise is uncertain; More details on the specifics of Kracko's immortality are needed.

3. The details of Superman's Regenerative abilites are needed, in order to vote certainly. Especially if him being able to win involves him getting rid of clouds with a hostile Kracko after him.

4. Superman working around the Type 8 Immortality might happen late into the fight, as he wouldn't know about it -& may need time to figure out how to deal with it, too- without advance knowledge -IIRC, SBA says no advance knowledge by default- & so just how healthy both will be by the time the Immortality is no longer insurmountable is uncertain.

5. Superman has a small chance of winning via SBA if he can freeze Kracko with his Freeze Breath, but that assumes Kracko becomes either completely unable to act while frozen in such a way &/or can't melt the ice encasing it with heat from its Electricity Manipulation.

6. Within this match, it'll probably take time until a fight is what ends this VsBattle, due to the aforementioned reasons, unless it turns out Superman's Regenerative abilities won't stop Kracko killing him.

7. In a proper fight, Superman probably has the advantage via at least his close combat skill, as well as his intelligence & experience advantages, MAYBE stamina advantages, At Least Planetary vs Planetary Range, & maybe freezing with Freeze Breath giving him opportunities.

8. Kracko's advantages might be size manipulation, weather manipulation, MAYBE more versatile ranged offenses, homing attacks, & maybe Summoning.

9. As such, because of lacking info on some subjects, I'm unsure whom to vote for.
 
Question, If Kracko absorbs the battlefield, changing it from Central Park to itself.

Can Supes get out of Kracko if he gets absorbed by him?

Because I'm assuming if Kracko absorbs Supes and the Man Of Steel can't get out of him to destroy the clouds. Kracko wins.

(Btw not a vote.)
 
Edwardtruong2006 said:
Question, If Kracko absorbs the battlefield, changing it from Central Park to itself.
Can Supes get out of Kracko if he gets absorbed by him?

Because I'm assuming if Kracko absorbs Supes and the Man Of Steel can't get out of him to destroy the clouds. Kracko wins.

(Btw not a vote.)
Click to expand...
Technically, the OP said the battle takes place on the moon. (Which I may not have noticed during MY first post.)

Also, not sure if Kracko has the ability to absorb opponents. And if you mean holding & attacking him while Supes is trying to get rid of clouds.... Might work?

The biggest issue might be if Supes can use freeze breath to freeze Kracko, Heat Vision to evaporate the part holding him, or maybe Super Flare.... Or just break out with sheer muscle, given the possible AP &/or durability differences; Depending on Kracko's scaling, Supes may be up to ALMOST 6 times stronger than Kracko. Or less. I don't know HOW much higher than Knuckle Joe Kracko is.

The plan also runs into issues depending on who has the better stamina in a "grapple until he's dead to prevent him getting rid of my immortaility plan"; Even if it's immortal, Kracko's profile doesn't say it has unlimited stamina. If Kracko gets too tired to hold on, Superman might get free.

Of course, depending on how tired Superman is from struggling against the grip -probably not as tired as Kracko, however- he might have a bit of a challenge thwarting Kracko's cloud-existence-based immortality.

(Also not voting, currently, of course.)
 
How would Kracko do against sun powered heat vison attacks X. Feasible as it only takes him seconds to get to the sun a short moment to power up. Blast is pretty close to the size of the moon.
 
@Zensum:

Well, Kracko's Regenerationn level is.... Mid-High. Our Wiki's page on Regenerationn says Mid-High: Able to regenerate from being vaporized/dust.

If you mean Post-Flashpoint Supes should be above his current Large Planet Level rating, might be something for a Content Revision Thread or for the Official Calculation Requests Thread.

It might not be his first resort, but I can see him being able to get the energy for it. However, I'm unsure if it'll actually get past Kracko's Type 8 Immortality, for which, Kracko's profile says: "exists as long as there are clouds in the sky. Not limited to one planet".

It'd definitely be a devastating blow to Kracko, even if it isn't Superman's 1st resort, but I'm unsure if it'd kill decisively enough.
 
Hmm interesting. Yeah he deffintiley wouldnt start out with that.

About Kracko, does he need to be in proxmity of the clouds for regen to work? Or will it work as long clouds exist in genreal. For example if the earth and moon are destoyed so there are no more cloud would he regen there or on a different planet with clouds.

Probably need more clarification.
 
I'll admit, whether Supes starts with it might not matter, if he can go to his max stamina/energy/yellow-sunlight-charge/whatever or more with a mid-combat visit to the sun from the moon. CAN he do that in this fight?

But yeah, I'm not the most knowledgeable about the specifics of Kirby characters either. I'm definitely of the "Probably need more clarification" stance myself, also.
 
You mean like is it allowed or whether he can physically do it mid fight? Cannonly it barley takes seconds for him to reach the sun and back
 
Zensum said:
You mean like is it allowed or whether he can physically do it mid fight? Cannonly it barley takes seconds for him to reach the sun and back
Click to expand...
No no, I mean: It wouldn't be his first resort, correct? Therefore, if it isn't the first thing Supes does, then there would be fighting beforehand between Superman & Kracko. Odds are, they might lose stamina in the battle. It's also possible Superman might lose some of his "charge", too, over the course of this battle, correct?

When Superman goes to the sun to ready that sun powered heat vision attack, since he's yellow sun powered, does he regain ALL his stamina &/or all his "charge"? Which? If not all of it, then how much?
 
Imaginym said:
No no, I mean: It wouldn't be his first resort, correct? Therefore, if it isn't the first thing Supes does, then there would be fighting beforehand between Superman & Kracko. Odds are, they might lose stamina in the battle. It's also possible Superman might lose some of his "charge", too, over the course of this battle, correct?
When Superman goes to the sun to ready that sun powered heat vision attack, since he's yellow sun powered, does he regain ALL his stamina &/or all his "charge"? Which? If not all of it, then how much?
Click to expand...
Yes true it would be his first resort.

Stamina wise, not sure he wasnt exhausted before or after usage. The sun does recharge his cells which is linked to his stamina and abiltites. On earth it usually takes time but being close proximity to the sun supercharges him instantly. If hes fatigued I cant tell how long it would take but I assmue it would be much faster.

Edit it does seem instant X
 
In regards of AP, I highly doubt Superman is stronger. If Superman is only 6x stronger than Knuckle Joe, he sure as hell ain't stronger than Kracko. Kracko is a major boss in the games, while Knuckle Joe is literally fodder. Kracko is many times stronger than Knuckle Joe, so I'd say he has the AP advantage. Even if Superman gets past that mid-high regen, as long as there are clouds anywhere even remotely close to him, (I'm talking within galaxy distance) he'll reform very quickly. Kracko also might have a stamina advantage. Superman is no slouch, being able to benchpress a planet for days on end without any sunlight while barely even working up a sweat, but neither is Kracko. He is close to Kirby in stamina, who is capable of fighting abominations through many phases without even breaking a sweat. In Super Star Ultra, Kirby obliterated Kracko Jr. Minutes later, he reformed into Kracko. After Kirby obliterates him again, he reforms AGAIN later. He then comes back to fight Kirby in the Arena shortly after. After being demolished again, he comes back and fights Kirby twice within a few minutes. Even after all this, he still shows up for the True Arena. So yeah, I'd say Kracko takes this.
 
>I'm talking within galaxy distance

Kracko was even in the mirror world and patch land, it's not crazy to say that his Reliant Immortality has multi-universal range.
 
Noahkaismith makes a good point, I feel. Kracko probably would be many times stronger than one of the "fodder" characters, as he's a very major boss.

A big question that does come up, is.... Is forcing Kracko to regenerate from nothing a KO? I'd doubt it, & even then, it seems unlikely he'd stay like that for an hour or so, which I believe is needed for a "Knock-Out Victory".

In terms of a fair fight, Superman may have an advantage via intelligence & skill, possibly freezing Kracko with his frost breath. But I'm not sure he actually has enough statistical advantage over Kracko to win, given the above point.
 
I'm thinking he would have to use frost breath aswell to perma bypass regen. You think Kracko can resist having his particles frozen. Superman uses his frost breath this way to freeze ghosts who are intagible to him with a large aoe. X X X
 
Zensum said:
I'm thinking he would have to use frost breath aswell to perma bypass regen. You think Kracko can resist having his particles frozen. Superman uses his frost breath this way to freeze ghosts who are intagible to him with a large aoe. X X X
Click to expand...
Kracko isn't intangible though. To "kill" Kracko, he'd have to destroy every single atom in Kracko's body, which is going to be hard, if not impossible for him. Even if he did, Kracko would come back within a few minutes, and unless Superman can get rid of every cloud in the galaxy, he'll keep coming back.
 
Noahkaismith said:
Kracko isn't intangible though. To "kill" Kracko, he'd have to destroy every single atom in Kracko's body, which is going to be hard, if not impossible for him. Even if he did, Kracko would come back within a few minutes, and unless Superman can get rid of every cloud in the galaxy, he'll keep coming back.
Click to expand...
The point here is immobilizing him. If he's going to regen there would be no point trying to destoy his body over and over. So does he have feats of being reistant to this level of freezing
 
OK, why is everyone so obsessed with Superman killing Kracko? The fight can end in KO too, so Krackos immortality dosen't give him an auto win.
 
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