The long awaited Megabug and MegaDragonBowser upgrade to low 2-C

[Theuser789]

@DatOneWeeb You literally liked a comment from Mephistus that specifically said Megabug is not an outlier and that you guys are trying to make Mario Tier 2 in another thread. Please do not lie about your intentions and try to make my response to them seem crazy.

But okay I am dropping that point. Onto whether or not the vortex scales to the villain in the first place.

Matt also went into this thread with the intention to refute the OP without even knowing the main game, a fact he didn't even deny

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The first part of your argument stems from you not knowing what universes are, just like in the Wart thread. The real world and the world of Mario is as comparable as the latter being a grouped quite easily as a stated universe in the same line here as per simply reading the product description of the game. They are not 2-D in any respect here or fictitious given the normal interaction between the real world characters not treating the realm as flat or intangible to their dimensionality and that claim doesn't justify or lead into your claim that they aren't canon unto each other, so great job straw manning the prior resources showing Nintendo considers it being in their same timeline as the mainstream even. Seeing as how they are treated as going through an interdimensional tear, Mario's dimension simply exists in a wider cosmology of a multiverse before the SupaMerge did anything at all. There is no metafiction basis there to even derive besides your headcanon.

Jesus what even is this big brained argument. Now you think I'm talking that Mario is 2D? When did I bring up dimensional tiering? When did I say that I believe in it? When did I say that this was a case of legitimate Reality-Fiction Interaction?

My point is that the Mario Universe isn't a fictional setting created by Nintendo in-universe, but evidently it is in the Rabbids universe. So my point is that this shows this is a non-canon crossover.

You're the one who strawmanned what I meant and then went on a huge tangent that proves nothing.

As for the second bit, the world in context is the universe as per the blatent twitter statement, interviews, and product descriptions equally treating them the same in terminology, and the showcase statement, the action of them being teleported there does quite instantly warp the space and time of the dimension

Gish Gallop, never argued against this.

Megabug already doing that, we outright get it stated via Xavier Manzanares its "it made the world completely unstable and chaotic" not "only a sliver of the mushroom kingdom's land" like you are baselessly claiming, its "the world", so yes it was all warped just from the start with that being the instant timeframe one.

Irrelevant. We literally see the corruption and instability spread throughout the game, and characters address multiple times that it increases as MegaBug gets more powerful from the released corruption, with the ultimate threat being it becoming powerful enough to destroy the world, at which point NOBODY will be able to stop this. All of this is in the game. You can't refute it.

For the destruction "timeframe", context gives Beep-0 doesnt wait around to see the megabug get any stronger at present and states to "save their world" after he goes through the tear/vortex himself and says that they need to stop it to Mario right after and planned to get Spawny to do that, and treated it as very urgent. Complaining about over time for the outright destruction like with Wart's case even being considered as an argument on a Low 2-C tier feat isn't negotiable since its not dividable over time by stuff when you affect an entire space-time like joules/second here with energy, regardless, scaling a genuine level of power on that tier is exactly what it is and why it will be granted here, destroying or affecting a literal universe on that scale with those effects are valid. And you will get zero concession from me on this.

If something is overtime then it's not Lo 2-C. I'm not sure you bring out a fake character like Wart here, it only worstens your arguments that you think he's worth bringing up.

Nobody is talking about joules/second, my dude. People are talking about the fact that shit over time doesn't fully scale to the proposed tier.

And I don't care if you don't make a concession, you're objectively wrong. Lol. This isn't a manner of interpretation. MegaBug gets progressively more powerful and will eventually be able to destroy the entire world. He is stopped before that happens.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yeah, not like he literally blasts guys with energy and he literally is the vortex's source of energy. Which would scale to his foes physicality, which would then scale back again since he uses more than just energy blasts.

He gets stunned by hitting his body against some solid metal blocks lol. This is a key mechanic in the final boss fight. And he's destroying the world through an expanding vortex that gets stronger over time. It clearly doesn't scale to physicals.

 

[Ryukama]

@00potato The purpose of this thread is to upgrade Megabug then scale him to Mario. As such, it is relevant for me to say that I do not think the upgrade should be scaled to Mario in this thread. The response to that is then saying "No one wants to scale him to Mario" when that is a straight up lie.

But yes now that I have already let it be known I don't think this upgrade should be scaled to Mario, I am willing to drop that part and move on to what Matt is saying about the vortex itself. I am not making any more posts after this one.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

1. Yes, World refers to universe in the game.

2. The Vortex that is corrupting the world isn't MegaBug, one is just caused by the other. MegaBug is a product of the SupaMerger being messed with by the Rabbids.

3. The destruction of the world is gradual. The game states and shows this. It's the entire plot.

Therefore MegaBug's tier is Unknown Physically, Up to Low 2-C with SupaMerger Vortex

 

[Mephistus]

Matt: "If you want to consider this canon you'll have to concede that all of Mario is literally fiction inside Rabbids."
Good job bringing it up then. You argued immersion is what makes them not true to Mario's real cosmology and you dropped it.

Yes it is instantaneous, as per the showcase statement giving the scale and action being the timeframe itself. TIME being affected is the scale given.

The warping caused the dimension to become unstable already, hence it was about to be destroyed, hence that is damage on a low 2-C scale. Disregarding time frame literally doesnt matter on that dimensional scale.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Beep-0 then explains to Mario that the Rabbids have been corrupted by the SupaMerge headset and are spreading chaos and mayhem, and that the SupaMerge is now corrupting the world itself and so they need to stop it. Then, after Mario gets aid from Beep-0 and the Rabbids in form of an arm-cannon to fight the enemies (Which is kinda hilarious because Mario looked genuinely terrified by the shooting before he got a way to fight back, implying Mario is stronger than his usual self with the weapons in the game) we are introduced to the crack in the sky. Beep-0 explains that it started when the SupaMerge brought the Rabbids to the Mario World, and notes that when an enemy is defeated their energy floats upwards towards the Vortex. Obviously indicating that the SupaMerge's energy is the cause behind the vortex.

After doing some tasks and meeting up with Peach, Beep-0 refers to the Vortex in the sky as the "Megabug" for the first time. And later, after meeting with Luigi and after Bowser Jr. kidnaps "Spawny" (The Rabbid wearing the SupaMerge Headset), Beep-0 reinforces that the Mushroom Kingdom will be destroyed if he's not stopped.

Later, after defeating more minions and Bowser Jr. who piloted a mech, Megabug finally appears from the Vortex in the form of a giant bird, or a "Giant Energy Dragon" (Looks more like a phoenix to me) as Bowser Jr. puts it. Beep-0 explains that Megabug took on this form because it's been gaining power from the Corruption with each enemy that they defeated.

 

[Mephistus]

He gets stunned by hitting his body against some solid metal blocks lol. This is a key mechanic in the final boss fight. And he's destroying the world through an expanding vortex that gets stronger over time. It clearly doesn't scale to physicals.

Its like you don't even try to ignore he's being hit against the blocks by foes of comparable tier...and that energy scales back to his usage in his attacks.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Just because someone has eventual intentions via future threads, it's not an excuse to be poisoning wells. Especially if none of it is present on this thread specifically; I know from experience that attacking people like that is bad practice. I've been a beast before yes.

Also, over time feats are divided if things are being destroyed piece by piece or if it's a wattage feat; Cosmic destruction feats are a different can of worms. It's a range feat for sure, and Tier 2 AP via prep time at least. But it doesn't always scale to physical stats unless there's context that they're going to withstand the collapsation or they literally eat the universe/multiverse. Just pointing out those details.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yes it is instantaneous, as per the showcase statement giving the scale and action being the timeframe itself. TIME being affected is the scale given.

You're a liar at this point. The game disagrees with this, visuals and dialogue. Time being distorted doesn't mean universe busting instantaneously.

The warping caused the dimension to become unstable already, hence it was about to be destroyed, hence that is damage on a low 2-C scale. Disregarding time frame literally doesnt matter on that dimensional scale.

This is all utterly irrelevant to my point. At first only the Mushroom Kingdom is affected and as the game progresses other places are affected to. When they go to the Desert World they comment that the corruption is spreading and now it's turning the desert into an frozen wasteland, for example. It is gradual and exponential.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Its like you don't even try to ignore he's being hit against the blocks by foes of comparable tier...and that energy scales back to his usage in his attacks.

A block of metal is a block of metal. Are you going to argue it's made of Dwarf Star core now? Because even then it wouldn't back the supposed tier.

Sometimes you have to accept that a "Low-End" exists my dude. Trying to justify everything as consistent just makes you look like a clown.

 

[Mephistus]

You're a liar at this point. The game disagrees with this, visuals and dialogue. Time being distorted doesn't mean universe busting instantaneously.


This is all utterly irrelevant to my point. At first only the Mushroom Kingdom is affected and as the game progresses other places are affected to. When they go to the Desert World they comment that the corruption is spreading and now it's turning the desert into an frozen wasteland, for example. It is gradual and exponential.

Again, that's actually threatening and changing time. The lying going on is that it wasn't already on that scale the second the rabbids arrived. I'm humoring arguing a person who has shown ignorance on canon of all things here.

yes, the corruption which had affected time and stated to be world-wide already.

 

[Ryukama]

@DarkDragonMedeus It's not poisoning the well. I never said "the upgrade is immediately invalid because these people want to scale it to Mario" or anything of the sort. I said "even if the upgrade is valid I don't think it should be scaled to Mario." They then respond by saying "We don't want to scale it to Mario" which is demonstrably untrue. The real poor practice is straight up lying for some reason. Not me simply pointing out that I disagree with them wanting to scale it to Mario, and then pointing out that they are now denying the fact that they want to scale it to Mario. If they want to scale it to Mario then sure. I respect that opinion and don't think anything less of anyone for it. I just disagree with it and don't like them lying when I bring up my disagreement.

 

[00potato]

@00potato The purpose of this thread is to upgrade Megabug then scale him to Mario. As such, it is relevant for me to say that I do not think the upgrade should be scaled to Mario in this thread. The response to that is then saying "No one wants to scale him to Mario" when that is a straight up lie.

But yes now that I have already let it be known I don't think this upgrade should be scaled to Mario, I am willing to drop that part and move on to what Matt is saying about the vortex itself. I am not making any more posts after this one.

The purpose has no bearing on the facts presented. Why do you care if the scaling may or may not apply to Mario that much anyway. Is that against your religion or something?

 

[DatOneWeeb]

You're a liar at this point.

just makes you look like a clown.

Come on Matt, you're better than this.

 

[00potato]

@DarkDragonMedeus It's not poisoning the well. I never said "the upgrade is immediately invalid because these people want to scale it to Mario" or anything of the sort. I said "even if the upgrade is valid I don't think it should be scaled to Mario." They then respond by saying "We don't want to scale it to Mario" which is demonstrably untrue. The real poor practice is straight up lying for some reason.

They don’t want this to immediately scale to Mario or else it would be in the OP. Considering that Weeb was trying to get tier 2 accepted for multiple antagonists before even trying for tier 2 mario is a testament to how they don’t want that to be brought up in the threads themselves and how that isn’t an issue for the thread itself. They don’t want tier 2 Mario until enough stuff is accepted, they aren’t pushing for it now. The bad man isn’t coming for you yet don’t worry.

 

[Mephistus]

Not really.

 

[Theuser789]

@DarkDragonMedeus It's not poisoning the well. I never said "the upgrade is immediately invalid because these people want to scale it to Mario" or anything of the sort. I said "even if the upgrade is valid I don't think it should be scaled to Mario." They then respond by saying "We don't want to scale it to Mario" which is demonstrably untrue. The real poor practice is straight up lying for some reason. Not me simply pointing out that I disagree with them wanting to scale it to Mario, and then pointing out that they are now denying the fact that they want to scale it to Mario.

You are ignoring that Matt, the guy on your side, went into this thread to "debunk" this instead of evaluate it, even looking into the game that he never saw before just to find contradictions, and has tried to ignore this upgrade because of poisoning the well

 

[Ryukama]

@00potato When the entire purpose of the thread is to scale it to Mario, then it is relevant to the thread for me to point out that I don't think it should scale to Mario. It is not that difficult to understand. Also Mario being scaled has no actual impact on my day to day life. I'm simply expressing my opinion on the matter like everyone else is. Why aren't the people so dedicated to this that they're willing to straight up lie not accused of "having a religion" by you?

 

[Mephistus]

A block of metal is a block of metal. Are you going to argue it's made of Dwarf Star core now? Because even then it wouldn't back the supposed tier.

Sometimes you have to accept that a "Low-End" exists my dude. Trying to justify everything as consistent just makes you look like a clown.

Area of effect in fiction doesnt care and its a substance in different universe.

Toxicity levels rising.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Area of effect in fiction doesnt care and its a substance in different universe.

Area of Effect is considerably abused in this wiki and used as a shield to not have to address a low-end feat when it happens.

You are ignoring that Matt, the guy on your side, went into this thread to "debunk" this instead of evaluate it, even looking into the game that he never saw before just to find contradictions, and has tried to ignore this upgrade because of poisoning the well

I literally watched the entire game. I took honest time out of my day to watch over an hour of cutscenes from this silly game and then wrote a comprehensive post arguing my genuine analysis of the events. And I believe I was fair. All you are doing is poisoning the well yourself. EIther you can address my arguments which are all corroborated by what happened in the actual game or you can stop.

 

[Ryukama]

@Theuser789 Matt never said "I came to this thread just to disagree with it." He said that it looked good to him at first glance and he planned on evaluating further just to make sure. Then once he evaluated all the cutscenes, he said he came to disagree with it. That is not the same as what I am talking about, which is the fact that people made this thread to scale it to Mario only to then lie about it.

But once again, let's just go back to the vortex argument itself then.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Again, it doesn't scale to physicals and it happens over time. I already covered the whole game in my post. It's not a matter of opinion, it's what's objectively shown in the game. You can disagree if you want and that's fine, but you have to acknowledge you're wrong if you do.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

but you have to acknowledge you're wrong if you do.

"Yes, anyone who disagrees with me is wrong, I am objectively right."

Seriously?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Ryukama It was more towards Matt than you yes, I don't think either of you had bad intentions, only Matt has been a moderately too blunt on various threads. Which to his defense, he has been honest enough to admit that. And staff are also partly at fault for often times non realizing that sooner. But at the same time, Mephistus actually has tried making some good effort to find scans. And yes, he also may have retaliated a bit harsh, but that's mostly because he worked hard and staff members myself included were too hard on him in the past. Also, DOW and the other Mario supporters aren't the only ones who want Low 2-C Mario, a couple other staff members do like Cal and Julian. Which I'm neutral atm and my stance could change at any time, but leaning towards not applying to Mario and the others. But still, it's best to keep talking about the scaling off this thread and focus on Megabug.

 

[ElixirBlue]

My point is that the Mario Universe isn't a fictional setting created by Nintendo in-universe, but evidently it is in the Rabbids universe. So my point is that this shows this is a non-canon crossover.

How is Mario being considered fictional to another universe proves its not canon? Considering how much Nintendo likes to make fiction reality (Paper Jam).

When the entire purpose of the thread is to scale it to Mario, then it is relevant to the thread for me to point out that I don't think it should scale to Mario.

"I don't think" =/= not true. We are currently trying to find out the answer to that one step at a time.

Now, ignoring all other factors, Megabug, tier 2 because of evidence or no? If not, what is your evidence to disprove it?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Seriously?

Yes because it's not my opinion. It's what is stated and shown in the game on multiple occasions, which I highlighted in my post. The vortex grows and expands over time and with it so does the distortion. In the beginning of the game only the Mushroom Kingdom is distorted. Later other areas and time starts getting funky too. And right before the final boss they explain that he must be stopped now or else he will continue to get stronger, becoming so powerful than "nobody in the Mushroom Kingdom will be able to stop him", and then the world will be destroyed.

 

[Theuser789]

Yeah, he read the OP, found nothing wrong with it, and then watched an entire video just to find something wrong with it, this is the very definition of trying to find something to disagree with it and you must be very innocent to not see his blatant intentions and think that this is just "evaluating"

And yeah, I am calling you out, unlike you I am honest on what I do

 

[Mephistus]

Gee, that statement about destroying the world comes at the start of the game before any powering up of the vortex knowledge for Beep-0 and the showcase says the world got unstable. Everything spoonfed about the area of effect of warping there to be instantaneously once it occured post teleportation.

 

[Ryukama]

@Theuser789 "and then watched an entire video just to find something wrong with it"

This is completely your speculation. Matt never once said "I am now going to watch the video just to find something wrong with it." You pulled that out of thin air. Unlike me, who actually brought up evidence that these others want to scale this upgrade to Mario only for that to then be denied. And again, nothing inherently wrong with wanting to scale it to it to Mario. Just don't deny you want to scale it to Mario when I say I disagree with that.

Very weak "callout."

I know I have said this before, but this is absolutely the final time I am addressing this or posting in the thread. I am now leaving this to the discussion of whether or not the vortex is a gradual thing that's separate from Megabug's stats.

My work shift starts in a few minutes so I will not be seeing any of this for the rest of the day.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yeah, he read the OP, found nothing wrong with it, and then watched an entire video just to find something wrong with it, this is the very definition of trying to find something to disagree with it and you must be very innocent to not see his blatant intentions and think that this is just "evaluating"

How dare me watching the entire game to come to my own conclusions and instead just blindly following what the OP said. How dare I think.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Gee, that statement about destroying the world comes at the start of the game before any powering up of the vortex knowledge for Beep-0 and the showcase says the world got unstable. Everything spoonfed about the area of effect of warping there to be instantaneously once it occured post teleportation.

You're ignoring the entire game. The whole context is that the world will be destroyed eventually if it's not stopped. Just because he says it before he starts getting empowered doesn't mean it applies to the pre-empowered state, that's ignoring the entire game and just focusing on a single statement.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Maybe we should chill out with the accusations and just discuss Megabug’s vortex?

 

[Theuser789]

But you did think and found nothing wrong with the OP, it's not like the OP is some virus that corrupts you.

Ryu he did say he would watch the video himself to see what "actually happens", ergo he went to see if the full game had something to contradict, neither any of the Mariofans said "We are going to lie so that the thread gets accepted and Mario is low 2-C", also not me who said that, all i did was point matt out, you are putting me on a thing I never did without any proof, just like you said I did, how ironic huh

You already said it 5 times but nobody is holding you on the thread, you can leave

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Maybe we should chill out with the accusations and just discuss Megabug’s vortex?

This is what me and Ryu wanted to do for a while now. I am going to ignore any comment about my intentions from now on.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

But you did think and found nothing wrong with the OP, it's not like the OP is some virus that corrupts you.

It wasn't, no. But the OP lacked the context of having watched the entire game from beginning to end. It focused on a few statements regarding "the world coming to an end" and sufficient proof that world meant universe and that time was affected. All which is in the game, yes. Which is why I said the OP looked good.

Then I double checked into the original source and what I got was that MegaBug's power grows over time as the game progresses and as he does so too does the distortion of the SupaMerger's vortex. As explicitly stated before the final boss, the heroes want to stop him BEFORE he gets powerful enough to destroy the world. Because at that point, and I quote, "No one will be able to stop him".

So it doesn't scale to the MegaBug we actually fight in the game.

 

[Mephistus]

You're ignoring the entire game. The whole context is that the world will be destroyed eventually if it's not stopped. Just because he says it before he starts getting empowered doesn't mean it applies to the pre-empowered state, that's ignoring the entire game and just focusing on a single statement.

Beep-0 is a knowledgable source on the subject of its danger with being alongside its creator and its known uses and gave an intricate detail on it already needing to save the world from the get go, so I'm not going to ignore his statement at your behest. The warping even needing to have a timeframe directly given to us at all is very much spelled out by the showcasing event on immediate affected scale.

 

[Theuser789]

>I am going to ignore any comment about my intentions from now on.
>Still replys

Anyways thank you for saying what I am saying you did, you read the OP, found it good, then went to find something wrong with it, then you went into a tagent about things I am not arguing about, kek

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Beep-0 is a knowledgable source on the subject of its danger with being alongside its creator and its known uses and gave an intricate detail on it already needing to save the world from the get go, so I'm not going to ignore his statement at your behest. The warping even needing to have a timeframe directly given to us at all is very much spelled out by the showcasing event on immediate affected scale.

I am not ignoring his statement, that's the thing! But contextually his statement is talking about what is going to happen! That's the entire game, how can you ignore it?

And a timeframe isn't given yes but it evidently isn't instant and the game shows it happening over time. You can't say it's not true because the game's levels are literally based around it! They get more distorted as you go along.

 

[Mephistus]

I am not ignoring his statement, that's the thing! But contextually his statement is talking about what is going to happen! That's the entire game, how can you ignore it?

And a timeframe isn't given yes but it evidently isn't instant and the game shows it happening over time. You can't say it's not true because the game's levels are literally based around it! They get more distorted as you go along.

Yes, the statement with the current state of the vortex.....applies to the current state of the vortex and what is currently happening.

It clearly is on a cosmic scale unlike what you imply since it actually affected the laws of space and time on the moon, the universe/world being affected is synonymous and already credited with that sole statement at the presentation with the view extending far beyond their planet's land, I literally got that info for us that its not planet wide so we don't need to guess on it.