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The Loli of Lolis VS The Time-Travelling, Pole-Wielding Saiyan

You can cover it, of course.

I doubt anyone in their right mind would mentally strain themselves with this insanity... or will they?
 
Do we use exclusively Genesis Goku's abilities or is it all fair game when it comes to his hax?
 
In the previous match-ups I chopped off all the > 4-D hax and equalized the level of reality the people where fighting on. When you say "exclude Tier 0" does this mean cap reality as 4-D (scale everyone's haxes to 4-D reality) again or make it so it's on Goku's level (scale down all Tier 0 to 1-A using Goku's level of 1-A as the cap)?
 
Alright. I heard you talking about some void cycle Zeno's in. Is this a different one? -reading the page- I see he scales to Demigra to an unknown, but preeeeeetty high degree as well. Hmm...
 
The Void's pretty high into 1-A, but Xeno Goku, physically and hax-wise, doesn't scale to it at all (or any character below Zeno for that matter).
 
So we'll have the Demigra-scaling level of 1-A applied as the current reality (so all the haxes listed on Goku's page becomes available and to scale down the Loli's level of haxyness to that level too).
 
Well, I'll wait to see who wins.

In the meanwhile, I guess I'd like to talk for a bit, Zero. Nothing bad, just a little chat.
 
Sorry... I'll get to it soon...

Could you list some of Goku's abilities you think will be important for the match... ?

Kinda like... what I did in the gauntlet battle rounds, with counter haxes... AP... etc.;;
 
No problems. Like I said, take all the time you need,

As for Goku's most important hax, I guess those (In no particular order):

  • Attack Reflection (Counters physical, energy-based, reality-warping, soul-based, time-based, void-based, intangible or non-corporeal attacks going by what we know now)
  • Fate Manip (Similar to Attack Reflection in a sense. He can basically alter fate to favor him throughout a battle, like stopping attacks from hitting him and what not. This, along with other stuff related to Causality, ignores Type 5 Acausality as you probably know)
  • Sealing and BFR (Yeah, we've discussed how no forms of transportation can counter the former)
  • Hakai (According to Akreious, who jacked this up big time, it's basically an erasure ability that ignores a beings ties to dimensional space and erases them from it; Partly why Goku and Zamasu have True-Godly)
  • Precog and Info Analysis (Basically, it becomes a case of "I know everything you're gonna do" even if there's "no future to look at", and the info analysis is a full breakdown of the enemy's abilities and what not)
  • Conceptual Manip and Type 2 Abstract Existence Neg.
  • Miracle CI, Resistances, Shenron Mode, Rege, and Immortality. You already know about those, as well as the Acausality Negation. We've also established that Toon Force, 4th Wall Breaking and the Plot Destruction counter Plot hax.
AP-wise, you already know about the 2-B rating, and the 1-A rating is pretty much being able to one-shot a somewhat above "baseline" 1-A being like Gravy.
 
Here we go... I'll start with the statistics before going into more detail about the "quirky" abilities...

Tier, Attack Potency and Striking Strength
Attack-wise, we have 3 diverging routes happening simultaneously, and that's kinda important to note:

  1. The Base: In reality, the 'base' power is, in itself, somewhat vague due to the nature of the Death Drive imprinted into this particular Vessel. It causes it to be a variable instead of a solid stat, thankfully, we do have the statistics we can use: 10 is the lowest possible AT stat without weaponry and in the seemingly least violent (more on that later) 'Passive' state, which is... uh, "At least Building level" as it produces energy greater than that of the output of the Sun's surface (loli punch > 1.242046248E+9J) not very impressive. However, as I've said above, the 'current' level is just an 'undetermined possibility' state within due to the discrepancy in the raw power feats. It's more or less "Schrodinger's Powerlevel." However, as we've seen with with other demonstrations of entities with a similar "willingness" the destructive damage output can vastly augment on factors such as 'emotions' (though, 'emotions' for this particular Vessel are alien when it comes to the common human depictions of emotional states, as seen with the "Kindness is interchangeable with Violence" aspect of the apparent moral code... which is essentially a roulette wheel and a Yangire if you must).
  2. The Intensity: As stated above, the 'base' isn't exactly stable and is simply the theoretical probable spot the power level decides to stop the moment of inflicting damage. These fluctuations are what we deem as the 'intensity' and one of the highest stats given to them was an AT value of 50 which at the very least would be "Town level" by virtue of being mathematically superior to Yanderplane's bomb strike that devasted Snowidin's forest. This unreasonable behaviour can elevate the AP as its main focus is raw Durability Ignoring, which isn't registered under the AP, but sometimes it slips through as destructive energy registered under the AP. In other words, think about the AP as a light-focused laser deciding to stop getting its light focused for seemingly no coherent reason. If the Vessel reaches a breaking point, then the given statistics are literally thrown out of the window (stats window), which becomes an eldritch monstrosity that will sky-rocket to straight up 2-B to High 1-A/0 (1-A given the cap of reality in this match-up).
  3. SAVE FILE: As mentioned earlier, the destructiveness inherently attributed to the Attack Potency and Tier become a thin line... used as a jumping rope due to it being mostly pure hax. This is even more obvious when we get to the SAVE and LOAD functionality. ZeroTC01 may have an idea about this based on the justification for AP in his page. The act of 'SAVE'-ing boils down to this: It saves AKA copies any given object, without discerning what is the object being copied, be it extremely specific characteristics, such as "The bleeding effect stabbing someone with a knife generates." or an entire world, and by 'world' it could even mean the entirety of the currently given formal setting. That is why there are low-ends, mid-ends and high-ends in the page. As the contents inside a world, at least for now, are all considered the same as there is no internal system that says "This content is qualitatively superior to this one and this other has more quantity than the other one." but they very much are for AP and Tier, as such, the known type of worlds found in SAVE FILE No. 2 alternate Undertale events, given its relations to the Dream Worlds were then categorized as the -ends stated above. The 2-B to High 1-A/0 ratings given here and in the Unrestricted K.I. state AKA broken Vessel, all come from the way worlds are handled (multi-formalism).
These are the 3 diverging routes the AP can take, now as for the values themselves... well, you already have an idea on what they convey with all the verbose I've said above. To put it in more general terms:

  • Low-Ends: The universe is causally replicated at every point in a separate temporal construct, creating something known as a timeline (Low 2-C) but more than one timeline can emerge (2-C). The amount of timelines in the lowest interpretation of the world is that of the "Butterfly Effect" in which there's an alternate path for each and every insignificant action, which was discovered by the causal exploits experimented by Flowey. Since every possibility is considered within space-time, the results yield an incredibly enormous number of timelines (2-B) which easily rivals the Low-End for Xenoverse and Heroes as they both function in somewhat similar rules for timeline generation. I've heard it could perhaps yield an uncountably infinite alternate positions within space-time (2-A) but still a low-end. The currently accepted low-end is 2-B for the UT worldline, though, thanks to Flowey's discovery.
  • Mid-Ends: This is where things get more complex. The alternate positions and possibilities in the space-time example now aren't limited to the temporal construct, which in the traditional world, is merely another dimensional axis. This means, everything within the world is then mirrored across its entirety in something known as a 'worldline', which, unlike a timeline, is for the entire world. Think about it like a chess table, where the contents of the world, concepts such as space, time or the infinitesimal dots that build reality, are all the chess pieces. The pieces can be arranged in virtually any possible way, however, as the disctintion between the possible or impossible is inherent to the Worldly Laws (more of that in a moment), they can perform "impossible" movements, like a pawn, who usually can only move once or twice in one direction, does a horse's L-shape action. The laws in this world that dictate such movements can be done, similar to chess rules are known as the Worldly Laws, whereas the connection between the rules and how these operate is known as the Philosophy of the World. As there is pretty much virtually anything that can be mirrored within a worldline, including the funamental aspects this Tiering System handles (Dimensional Tiering), causing an entanglement in dimensionality as a whole, the AP/Tier from this can range all the way to Tier 1-A. Thanks to the knowledge over different AUs, worldlines found here aren't that crazy and basically function like a set of quantum multiverses (aka universes having timelines) with somewhat minor conceptual differences. Then again, my knowledge over AUs isn't that great... so I could be wrong about that one, sorry- >>;
  • High-Ends: This is when the Tiering System ceases to properly function, so to speak, entering the realm of conceptual-dimensional distinct worlds. There isn't a given name to these types of worlds, but they were found in the collection known as the "Dream Worlds" where each and every single content in this world are fundamentally alien to any other world. You may recognize the concept of "Pizza" as this round thing with cheese you eat, but here's the thing... the definition of "Pizza" may change to things such as "Football" by arranging the pieces of the former worlds in such a way... but now, "Pizza" has no relation to anything that could be constructed with our given pieces, it would be like having a checkers piece in our chess table example in the former worlds, even the alternate positions and possibilities are thrown out of the window, because there's nothing relatable to it at all at this level. Formerly, things were all "wrong" even if they have "familiarity" as their were constructed out of an amalgamation of things we knew about, but later on, the simplest of things, make no sense at all, such as math, pertain to a certain formal system, in such a disctinct world would render it as a null (more on that later), as I've mentioned in the Discord server (and thanks to Derp who informed me of this both back in the Dream Worlds and now), it can make "absolute infinity not exist" as it essentially uses different mathematical formal systems that have nothing to do with them. Having "infinite^infinite" levels of meta-reality (the 1-A kind) which can extend to "absolutely infinite" levels of meta-reality, rendered as a singular world. In other words, no infinite can be bigger and escape from its own system pertaining to their world, which the alien worlds technically do not possess. Thus, conceptuality as a whole is utterly meaningless, and null-values show up often as a subject when talking about them. A "null-value" is a conceptless/meaningless/definitionless state which, as an example, taking TES's zero-sum (where 1 is existing and -1 is non-existing --> 1 - 1 = 0) works only because existing (and therefore, not existing) is defined, without any definition attributed to the term "existence" then it can't be put a number to it, it is not a 0, it's esentially a null-value, it has no number assigned to it. However, the world, whoever alien, still 'functions', in whatever way it does, at worst, they'll be granted a state of vagueness which a world may not properly be able to render as it would be like opening an .exe file in paint (may not be the best example as they're essentially the same type of data, just arranged differently like a mid-end world... but you get the point >>). This is obviously super duper banned for the match-up lmao, but we'll get into the specifics later, I want to at least finish the statistics before going into the hax.
Speed and Range
Thankfully, Speed is equalized in this match-up... but before I proceed any further, I want to have something important clarified... What does it mean for the abilities that... uh, 'kill' time? I've talked how the concepts, or pieces correlate, but part of the hax involves literally killing the stuff as means of movement... the range is also affected due to the same reasoning-- >>;

More info about the 'Speed' and 'Range' ratings on the post below uwu;;

Durability and Stamina
Durability should be more or less the same as the AP. However, there are some things I would like to talk about in the Hax section, as while Durability may have Goku with exploding loli guts in every single strike, that's not enough even for a K.O. / Incapacitation due to the outright ridiculous Stamina (more below).

Stamina-wise, Goku is immensely overshadowed. We're talking about someone who can die and die and die and die and die and die and die and die and die and die and die and die and never once complain about it. It could be barely a thread of nervous tissue sitting in a puddle of blood with a chunk of a brain inside a cracked skull and it would rather be excited than frustared if found in such sitation. The mere act of bleeding out liters of precious blood is nothing more than a gag, as bleeding is such a normal thing, it's even referred to as sweating. Think about an opponent that can have every single internal organ liquified in one swift hit and not be bothered by it in the slightest. If the Kaio-Ken were to boil one's blood, fuse the nerves into the melting flesh, dissolving the spirit and mind, with your very sense of self on a conceptual level in jeopardy, loli would go until he literally explodes in every aspect of being, only to get right back up and laugh about it. The amount of pain tolerance is stupid, ever heard of the Pain Matrix? There was an event where the pain levels were measured in alephs and met with a smile. This Vessel is loosely based on the same components that came about this insanity, and even then, a much more delicate one could go on an exhausting adventure (Dream Worlds) being skeletonized with organs hanging and a bunch of ontological paradoxes present... in other words, K.O.'ing such a monster isn't plausible given the current circumstances.

Intelligence, Lifting Strength, Notable Equipment and Weaknessess
Where do I even start... You have Goku going against one of the single, most efficient and competent fighters in the whole setting full of haxxy, power-creepy weirdos. To get a better grasp on this, there is a possible outcome analyzed and evualuated for every position and possibility each individual movement, both inner and outer, have. A 'kick' is automatically hypothesized for all outcomes in the 're-' phase of reaction. There is no "Notable Attacks and Techniques" listed for this precise reason, there is just an unending string of of variables a simple kick may have, not to mention all combinations granted by both abilities, opponent abilities, overall and individual statistics of both, and equipment. If this information is of any use... in RPs, way back then, there were multiple signs to portray an action, not just a single one, like a narration, asterisks or parentheses, but cursives, bolds, emoji-like symbols, ascii symbols, keys, 1st person and 3rd person, level of verbosity, and so on consecutively and simultaneously being used. Not to mention entire movesets/battlestyles born from using just one particular ability, which was able to be immediately changed mid-action for an entirely different moveset/battlestyle with only a frying pan involving making a massive meteorite strike out of simple dog residue... the "induces headaches" thing listed in the 'combat tactician' section wasn't just for a joke. When it comes to battle smarts, Goku has finally met with someone who can give him a run for his money and vice-versa.

Ahh... there's more statistics to cover but it's getting pretty late... I'll just... leave it as it is for the moment, and complete it tomorrow via editing this message (actually I'll just post it in separate messages lol)... good nite -w-
 
Good afternoon owo

Oh boy. This is getting, if not already is, REALLY interesting.

When it comes to the destruction of time and the means of movement as a whole, let's simply assume that speed is equalized to Infinite/Immeasurable or that the two can move w/o the requirements for... actually doing so.
 
Good morning uWU;

Speed and Range (Section II)
WLAWLO

Uhm... when I was talking about destruction of time as means of movement... I was trying to make a reference to the nature of the perception-based enviromental reality warping and tactical durability ignoring properties. As mentioned earlier, finding the most ridiculous use for a particular ability is a key aspect of the loli's combat style. When it comes to the Worldly Laws and Philosophy of the World, the traditional one operates on the basis of having axes for dimensionality, as they're freedom of movement rather than higher layers. Due to this, the physical attributes they possess... for a lack of a better word, are murdered. When the loli swings his Chainsaw of Doom, it slices through the dimensional axes like a 1,000 degree red glowing knife on butter as they're merely part of the physical (Body) properties. In other words, the 'Speed' rating it has, isn't limited to 3-D axis of movement, but rather, it's the pure, dimensionless 'Speed' rating that is then applied to physicality (in this case, it's pure form of matter/energy all regarded as the 'Body' aspect) as means of movement. It is well-behaved (strictly 3-D axis under the influence of the 4-D axis AKA 'normal speed') when the loli feels like it, but as this feeling fluctuates (since this strange freedom is, along with the AP, strictly enviromental and not relating to the opponent themselves) it may not behave and thus become the dimensionless unstopabble speed force.

  • Low-Ends: Some of the low-ends for 'Speed' of the loli are listed right there on the page, it includes dodging lightning and explosions. He scales to feats of dodging cloud-to-ground lightning, magical high-speed rockets and explosions of bombs (MHS+). He has his own feats of having an entire battle before a lightning in the back ground could strike the ground and outrunning the radius of a nuclear explosion that leveled a mountain (MHS+).
  • Mid-Ends: The mid-ends include scaling from the dodging of natural and artificial sunlight (Relativistic+) and being drilled through every planet in the solar system and reacting to being thrown outside the Oort Cloud (FTL+). The loli doesn't have any feats on this scale outside a couple light dodging.
  • High-Ends: The high-ends include scaling from someone else with the same power source as his (Determination) who was able to check under every bed in the world, including its realms, in what like seemed a second (MFTL+;sextillions c) and crossing novemnonagintillion of floors in a castle, in which every floor was more or less a world on its own (MFTL+;centillions c) and also the same power source (Killing Intent) to people who fought against the previous. He has no feats on his own, but having two of the same power source as these two makes it a possibility. His own feats include the use of alternate dimensional axis for his Speed... if we were to take these ratings and apply it to alternate dimensionality (this is the basis of Immeasurable speeds btw), much like another one did (that one crossed a hurricane of galaxies in a 4-D enviroment. MFTL+;c quadrillions c which then applied to 4-D would give you Immeasurable) then... we'll have someone who can pat your head at centillions of times faster than the speed of light across dimensionality as a whole...
It certainly is a good thing is that we have Speed Equalized for this match-up... but my question is: What would this hax mean for the match-up? Does it become a no-no due to the equalization or does it fall under 'speed bosting skills' like Kaio-Ken and therefore fair game?
 
The latter. A similar thing happened with notably Rimuru VS Goku, where Rimuru's stats got dwarfed due to Super Goku's transformations... actually moving him up Multiverse level and boosting him speed-wize. If it's fair game there and in other threads with equal speed, it should also be so here.
 
Nono, if we 100% equalize the speed, it means that, even with the loli's speed hax, it's all restricted to only be on Goku's Immeasurable end of the speed spectrum and thus, the cross-dimensional bike would run about the same speed as Goku's bike (don't ask how he got it, trust me on this one) whereas the later implies that the loli can whoop Goku up to the infinite axes of dimensions the cosmological cap we've put on this match-up permits (if not outright 1-A due to the nature of durability ignoring as seen in the 'Range' section... but we'll get into that later >>;).
 
Oof...

Alex, I think you're too high up the IQ scale for me to handle. The former now seems to be far less nightmare-inducing to me, so let's go with that.
 
Now now, let's not forget that you're going to be bullying... like, literally me after this (And I have a couple of threads planned where I'm gonna probably get bullied agai)
 
Go ahead. While you do the rest of the stats, I'll go get some rest... get it?

On a serious note, I'll probably be asleep by the time you're done with some more stuff, so I'll reply ASAP. Good night In b4 it's probably afternoon or something for you
 
I actually wasn't gonna do this, until Alex suggested it.

I planned on moving on to a bunch of other characters for a while, so instead that's what I'm gonna be doing after this :p
 
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