The Legend of Zelda Majora's downgrade

[Cumberjung]

@Antvasima well not NEARLY enough people have commented on this thread to have a proper conclusion but most people who have commented here at least seem to be for downgrading Majora and Fierce Deity Link but against downgrading The Triforce. I'm still think both should be downgraded but I'll digress on The Triforce bit for now.

Also good timing on people returning to this thread considering the pain from a recent surgery has finally dulled enough that I can concentrate on posting here logically.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, I'm neutral as usual. There hasn't been anywhere near enough input. Some support Majora being Universal as being the sole reason for why the Complete Triforce is. Some think Majora should be downgraded back to 5-B in Mask form and High 4-C in true form with Complete Triforce supposedly having more Universal feats. And there are some who don't think anything is Universal but just High 4-C.

@Cumberjung also, really glad to know you're okay.

 

[Cumberjung]

@Antvasima again.

To make things even clearer the main argument for the downgrade is that the statements behind the 3-A tier (most notably in Majora's case) are WAY too nonspecific when talking about what happened to justify the tier.

Also worth noting is that basically the same feat has happened in another Nintendo verse (Kirby) and it was rejected most notably by Azzy (who from what I've heard doesn't approve of this feat either).


@DarkDragonMedeus

Thanks for the concern but don't worry it was nothing major just some pesky wisdom teeth that were bad enough to warrant full on surgery.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the explanation.

There is another ongoing Zelda thread that wants an upgrade to Low 2-C instead though.

 

[Cumberjung]

Yes I've noticed and looked at it. I obviously disagree with it for the same reasons I'm trying to downgrade here.

I've also noticed that the OP there noticed my thread and now I imagine both of us are just being both sides of this meme.

I feel like thinking like this makes things way more fun.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Okay. Thank you for the explanation.
There is another ongoing Zelda thread that wants an upgrade to Low 2-C instead though.

That upgrade thread is based on the fact that the quote for Majora says "Space and Time" on it.

Even the OP of that thread said that it, "can't really be challenged without challenging 3-A as a whole" - and that's what this thread is doing - challenging the 3-A ranking.

 

[Warren_Valion]

What are the TL;DR conclusions here?

Anyway, the reasonings in the OP for the downgrade is...

• Majora's corruption statement is silimar to another character who did the same thing, Dark Mind from Kirby, and he isn't 3-A, so Majora shouldn't be as well. As that would be hypocritical of us.

• There is no proof that Majora's pocket dimension in the moon is universal in size at all

• And the Hyrule Encyclopedia's (who's canonicity is already brought up into question) quote is shown to not be refering to Termina as a universe but as a cilvization and thus isn't a universal feat.

There hasn't been much of a discussion, if any really, so the oppositon hasn't really come out yet besides people saying "I don't agree" - this thread needs more traction for a real debate to start, anyway...


For the votes:

Agree: 3 (Warren Valio, Migue79, Zhaxea)

Disagree: 3 (AshenCrow777, ZephyrosOmega, TriforcePower1)

Ambivalent: 2 (DarkDragonMedeus, VioletVoid100)

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

I disagree heavily. I'll break down my problems with this at a later point though since i'm moreso focused on upgrading all of the individual Links first in abilities and such.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

I disagree with the OP and the downgrade, it's very much illogical. I might make a longer response when I get on my PC at a chance, but I'm rather sure Dark Mind's feat is over time. And like others said, there is a difference between both scenarios. That would mean the first point is completely invalid for justification of a downgrade and a False Equivalence at that.

It would be like saying a character destroying a galaxy instantly can't be Galaxy level because Broly is Multi-Solar System off of it. Such an example would ignore the timeframe context both have.

 

[Cumberjung]

I have mentioned the timeframe before but to clear things up Dark Mind's feat is under an unknown timeframe all that we know is that it was quick enough to surprise Meta Knight. The Termina feat is the same an unknown timeframe but fast enough to surprise Link. This has been taken into consideration and is actually part of the reason I'm pushing for the downgrade.

Aside from time frame if I remember correctly Azzy said universal corruption isn't automatically 3-A even if it is instant as what that means is too unclear. We in this case need to go off what we see and are told and what we know is that the world became a reflection of Majora's/Skull Kid's inner self the water is now poison and life sucks for everyone. It goes without saying that this is not 3-A.

 

[Antvasima]

@Warren

Thank you for the summary. I am not ready to make an evaluation yet though. My apologies.

 

[Warren_Valion]

I disagree with the OP and the downgrade, it's very much illogical. I might make a longer response when I get on my PC at a chance, but I'm rather sure Dark Mind's feat is over time. And like others said, there is a difference between both scenarios. That would mean the first point is completely invalid for justification of a downgrade and a False Equivalence at that.
It would be like saying a character destroying a galaxy instantly can't be Galaxy level because Broly is Multi-Solar System off of it. Such an example would ignore the timeframe context both have.

False equivalency.

Unlike Broly who we are told in the work itself by knowledgeable characters that he was destroying the South Galaxies over the course of his life (and are shown it in the opening of the movie) - Majora doesn't have a feat of corrupting the universe in any timeframe whatsoever.

He has one random quote from a guide made nearly twenty years ago which spents most of its sentence talking about how the Skull Kid is bringing misery to the lives of the people of Termina. It doesn't mention much of or specify on the, "influence of his cursed guise", nor does it mention a timeframe for such influence.

The actual feats that Majora has is no where near the level we put him at currently - Majora transmuted the Giants into the bosses which causally warp their surroundings at High 6-C levels of energy. And he has a planet level feat with days of prep, and after getting stronger, he has a star level feat.

 

[Antvasima]

@Warren

You should ask the staff members listed in The Legend of Zelda verse page and the Knowledgeable Members List to comment here.

 

[Cumberjung]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

Has anybody done what I suggested yet?

 

[Cumberjung]

Technically yes awhile ago some members (not that many though) were contacted but the most knowledgeable on this part of the verse seem to all ether be inactive or abstaining from the topic unfortunately.

 

[Cumberjung]

Azathoth and Matt, I'm sure they agree. But We all know Azathoth said he ain't coming back anytime soon. And Matt doesn't really have time for threads anymore. Kepekley is also inactive, but said to be supportive of 3-A Majora. Cal Howard has pretty much given up on defending 3-A Zelda even though he obviously supports it. I have brought it up on the Zelda chat group, but no one replied.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we cannot have any major revisions without relevant evaluations. My apologies.

 

[Cumberjung]

Yeah I know which is honestly unfortunate as it's not really in anyone's control. Still though I'd rather keep the thread going for now.

 

[AshenCrow777]

Zelda chat group (I'm one member Part of it) are busy arranging profiles for the Loz characters and also sorting things we cannot participate at the downgrade while at the same time handling several other profiles since they need to be updated.

And other people of the Zelda chat group have commented here and said they disagree and that they will answer this thread when the others are done and complete.

They also said to be against the downgrade, so please be patient we have a lot on our hands too and we will respond to you when we are done with our other engagement we had before this thread started.

So again be patient and thank you dor your time.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I agree with the downgraded.

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

And I don't in the slightest and am probably going to respond in a few days time, but for now I'm stuck with a much greater personal issue than a Downgrade thread, sadly.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, Paradox is currently in a very serious predicament; which I'm praying for him really hard right now. Kepekley shared it in the news and announcement board.

 

[Antvasima]

Agreed. Thank you for being concerned about our members.