The Joker vs The Spy

[Moritzva]

Just a reminder that they know the capabilities of each other

Meaning The Spy will know to avoid gastraps and try a more careful way in?

And I don't think The Joker has anything on-hand that would massively help with invisible foes, nothing in 30 minutes.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Being realistic. Joker doesn't need to even fill the warehouse. Just the small gadgets and surprise explosives he has could do Spy in. The joker venom to extremely potent. And being fat smarter, Joker with prep and previous knowledge is going to make a far better plan than Spy.

 

[Moritzva]

Being realistic. Joker doesn't need to even fill the warehouse. Just the small gadgets and surprise explosives he has could do Spy in. The joker venom to extremely potent. And being fat smarter, Joker with prep and previous knowledge is going to make a far better plan than Spy.

No, he kinda does. Spy is an espionage master and, if he knows the enemy is prepped and has dangerous gasses, will certainly be extra careful. And invisible, always.

So any traps that he does come across get Sapped or snuck around.

 

[Ayewale]

Extra careful is nice, but Joker'd think ahead of that (far higher intelligence) and plan something around his sensibilities.

Plus, Joker could just rig himself up with joker venom and Spy get killed if he gets close to Joker.

 

[Moritzva]

Extra careful is nice, but Joker'd think ahead of that (far higher intelligence) and plan something around his sensibilities.

Plus, Joker could just rig himself up with joker venom and Spy get killed if he gets close to Joker.

We have to remember, thirty minutes still isn't a whole lot. He's in a warehouse; it's not exactly the most defensible place, and he doesn't have military-grade tech lying around.

I don't see him preparing for every possibility.

Joker would need to activate it before getting backstabbed or shot, or else he dies first.

 

[Buttersamuri]

And honestly, the same could be said for The Spy being shot, Stabbed, or poisoned once and he dies. Joker is the smarter one by far, has more unpredictable weapons, will be far more prepared with a plan, and deals with typical guns and weapons. Spy hasn't exactly sealed with wacky things like Razor sharp playing cards. He will be dealing with things far harder to predict, joker still wins.

 

[Ayewale]

30 minutes isn't a lot of time, but it should be more than enough. Joker would win with I think mid-high diff.

 

[Moritzva]

Joker is also the most unstable and insane.

And, most importantly, the most visible one.

I still want to hear an argument for getting around invisibility. The main argument against it was total fumigation, which is unlikely and not heavily supported IC.

 

[Buttersamuri]

That's a poor reason. Joker is insane but still insanely brilliant as well. And joker deals with stealthy people like Batman. Realistically, he gases he place. And you are indeed wrong about it not being in character. Joker Using Joker venom is EXTREMLT in character and even shown he has actually done it by filling a large room before.


Also. Grace is over

 

[Dusty_Raider]

Someone add this then

 

[Buttersamuri]

Done

 

[Ayewale]

That's a poor reason. Joker is insane but still insanely brilliant as well. And joker deals with stealthy people like Batman. Realistically, he gases he place. And you are indeed wrong about it not being in character. Joker Using Joker venom is EXTREMLT in character and even shown he has actually done it by filling a large room before.

Also. Grace is over

Actually, Joker being unstable is a very good point. He might just throw the fight for laughs on several occasions. But whatever.

 

[Moritzva]

I'll put this on the removal thread later. There was no counterargument doe invisibility, and a bulk of Joker votes were made at the start of the thread.

 

[Ayewale]

Well, the counterargument to invisibility is that he deals with Batman on the regular, who can disappear from sight even if you're looking at him and can pretty much melt into shadows.

 

[Moritzva]

Batman is stealthy, and far from passively invisible. Spy's going to be invisible just about the entire fight (I'm not sure if he uncloaks to attack in the comics, it's been a while).

And Batman still kicks his ass up close, even without intent to kill.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Your reasons still don't stand to have it removed. We acknowledged your arguments and argued back with our own. So it's not removal worthy because you disagree.

 

[Moritzva]

Your reasons still don't stand to have it removed. We acknowledged your arguments and argued back with our own. So it's not removal worthy because you disagree.

Counter to invisibility.

Counter to being unstable.

Counter to fumigation being impossible.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Already did

Already did

Already did

Now this debate is already over. We have been over your points.

 

[Moritzva]

No. No you have not.

The best argument to Invisibility was saying he can fight Batman, which is not a comparison at all.

There was no argument against unstability. It hinders him conatantly.

Fumigation is very obviously impossible, unless you think MFTL+ Joker is a thing in a speed equal match.

 

[Ayewale]

Batman is virtually invisible, and has been described as such by beings as Superman who can literally see invisisble beings with ease.

His unstability isn't a factor when he's actually trying to stay alive, though, it only makes him more dangerous, as the entire history of DC shall prove.

 

[Buttersamuri]

I'm not going to keep going in circles on this. We have been over the reasons why. And the fight is valid. And it's done.

 

[Ayewale]

Well, if you don't disprove his points to him he's just going to make a removal thread and you'd have to debate that, too.

 

[Totadileplayz]

1) Invisibility can be overcome, a simple closed door being opened would be easily detectable, in fact since it's invisibility it likely doesn't make him inaudible, and if this is an old warehouse like it says. simple dustprints could be tracked.

2) doesn't negatively impact him.

3) joker canisters can be released and used to clear rooms easily. it doesn't take 30 minutes to set them up as they've been used within minutes.

 

[Ayewale]

1) Invisibility can be overcome, a simple closed door being opened would be easily detectable, in fact since it's invisibility it likely doesn't make him inaudible, and if this is an old warehouse like it says. simple dustprints could be tracked.
2) doesn't negatively impact him.

3) joker canisters can be released and used to clear rooms easily. it doesn't take 30 minutes to set them up as they've been used within minutes.

To be fair a warehouse is wayy more than one room. And typically Joker doesn't have a lot of canisters hanging around.

And his insanity's impact on him is very debateable, but to say it doesn't impact him is a lie. There are several occurences in which it totally did.

 

[CrackerVolley]

Bump

 

[Buttersamuri]

This is over

 

[CrackerVolley]

Despite the fact that Spy could just stay hidden, moving only when Joker relases gas, and finding the perfect position to put bullet through his brain.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Yes. Despite the fact you believe that's what would happen. Because grace is over. Votes are for Joker.

 

[CrackerVolley]

Ok, but the voters didn't even consider Spy's advantages. Like 3 of them just said "Joker FRA" and haven't made a response since.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Ok. So. FRA still is a valid vote. Our points for joker stand.

 

[CrackerVolley]

Well me and Mortizva still have our points to introduce, it's just so happens that they were developed late into the thread when the majority of votes where already counted.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Well we countered your points with our points. We didn't ignore when other points were brought up. We discussed and gave our reasons against them. So still valid.

 

[CrackerVolley]

Except we responded to those counterarguments and you haven't given us a response to those we have counterargued.

 

[Buttersamuri]

1. Yea we did

2. It already was past grace. and at this point. We responded to your arguments. And after Grace started and past, it is over. Fight went to joker.

 

[CrackerVolley]

No, I won't get over it. I really, really hate it when Grace kinda screws over the losing side. How is anyone supposed to find new/convince the current voters to vote for your side in only a 24 hour period?

 

[Moritzva]

No, I won't get over it. I really, really hate it when Grace kinda screws over the losing side. How is anyone supposed to find new/convince the current voters to vote for your side in only a 24 hour period?

I absolutely agree.

 

[Buttersamuri]

It didn't screw you over. We argued your arguments. Multiple of us. And your arguments didn't convince us. And that's how grace works. 24 hour grace period. It didn't Screw you over. That's just the rules:

 

[Ayewale]

I don't like 24 hours grace either but it's not like we're about to fix it, are we?

 

[The_Wright_Way]

It didn't screw you over. We argued your arguments. Multiple of us. And your arguments didn't convince us. And that's how grace works. 24 hour grace period. It didn't Screw you over. That's just the rules:

^This. I've seen things get turned around in minutes. 24 hours is plenty.

 

[Moritzva]

I don't like 24 hours grace either but it's not like we're about to fix it, are we?

It is fixed, though.

Common sense and courtesy allows for votes to be removed when they are old and don't respond to counterarguments. There were literally no Spy arguments before and no counterarguments against him now.