The Immortal Ringwraith vs The Immortal Demon

[Axxtentacle]

Ringwraith Talion vs Meliodas with Lostvayne.

Specifically Ringwraith Talion that is still in control of himself.

Speed equalized.

Fight takes place in a vast, dark, open field in the plains of Mordor, opponents starting roughly 30 meters away from each other.

Both have no knowledge of the other’s abilities, and neither are given prep time.

Talion’s summons are limited to 1 Graug, 1 Drake, 2 Dire Caragors, and 1 Overlord level Uruk.

Meliodas is limited to his first demon mark, none of his other abilities at this level are restricted.

Both are in character.

Victory via death or incap

Nazgul: 1

The Destroyer:

The Bakery solos:

 

[Axxtentacle]

Bump

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So what exactly prevents Talion from Mindhaxxing him?

 

[Axxtentacle]

It’s not in character for Talion to attempt to mindhax seemingly human fighters, though I guess I should restrict the ability as later on in the fight it could be just an easy wincon.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

You can't restrict abilities that don't change his Tier, otherwise the Match can't be added.

 

[Axxtentacle]

You can't restrict abilities that don't change his Tier, otherwise the Match can't be added.

I guess we can just go off the assumption that Talion won’t use it, as he doesn’t use it against human seeming fighters ever, he’s only used it against Nazgul and Uruks in character, and even actively didn’t want to use it against Nazgul.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I'm pretty sure he didn't want to use it on the Nazgūl because he didn't want to Rule over the world like Celebrimbor did, if I remember correctly, which is why Celebrimbor ditched his ass. Also, Nazgūl Talion is a little bit more Unhinged than normal, so he might be more willing to use it considering he's willing to use Necromancy against the Uruks and Nazgūl.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Fair, but even after his Nazgūl change, he still never used it on anyone that wasn’t an Uruk or Nazgūl. I don’t really see him using it on Meliodas, as a bloodlusted Sauron dominated Talion didn’t even attempt it against Eltariel in their fight.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Fair, but even after his Nazgūl change, he still never used it on anyone that wasn’t an Uruk or Nazgūl. I don’t really see him using it on Meliodas, as a bloodlusted Sauron dominated Talion didn’t even attempt it against Eltariel in their fight.

Eltariel is a bit different considering she has Celebrimbor's New Ring of Power which is above Sauron's Ring and Talion was nerfed in that fight. He was practically crippled. Plus, I'm pretty that's PIS if he could Dominate her but didn't considering he was Bloodlusted.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Eltariel is a bit different considering she has Celebrimbor's New Ring of Power which is above Sauron's Ring and Talion was nerfed in that fight. He was practically crippled. Plus, I'm pretty that's PIS if he could Dominate her but didn't considering he was Bloodlusted.

It just seems unlikely that an in character talion would attempt it, seeing as a bloodlusted talion didn’t even attempt.
If he had attempted it against Eltariel and failed because of the Ring, I could see him using it, but he just doesn’t even attempt to, making me believe that it’s very likely he just won’t use it in the fight.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Possibly, but if notices Meliodas has bullshit he can't get past without Domination then he's definitely using that shit.

 

[Axxtentacle]

I don’t think there’s anything that he really couldn’t get past, maybe besides ranged Hellblaze spam from Meliodas, which isn’t an in character thing for him to do.
At the moment, I just don’t see him using it in the fight, so I think we can get on and talk about how this fight could actually play out.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Well I don't know shit about Meliodas apart from him having Attack Reflection or something? Can he deal with Talion's Resurrection and Teleportation?

 

[Axxtentacle]

Meliodas could potentially get around Resurrection by eating Talion’s soul if he realizes he has no other way, since he is still a demon and even weak demons are shown sucking dozens of souls out of entire kindgoms and towns at once.

With teleportation, I feel like he’d be caught off guard when it’s used against him initially, also considering Talion could teleport Meliodas to him for an attack. But Meliodas is able to adapt to abilities pretty quickly, and Talion isn’t going to 1 shot him with a sword strike after teleporting, as Meliodas could react to it or use demon mark to gain a temporary advantage, like he did against Ban, and kill Talion.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Talion can literally Teleport his Sword into Meliodas' Throat or Teleport Meliodas into his Sword.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Talion can literally Teleport his Sword into Meliodas' Throat or Teleport Meliodas into his Sword.

True, but Meliodas and other demons can survive such injuries and heal from them, and other captains can react and prevent this, so it’s easy to assume that with speeds equalized and Meliodas potentially using a demon mark, it wouldn’t be an insta-kill GG.

Also, he doesn’t teleport people into his sword, he brings them to them then hits them with a hammer, but I suppose he could do that.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Which would definitely lead Talion to Mindhaxxing him. That shit isn't normal and Talion isn't stupid.

 

[Axxtentacle]

That’s still not entirely likely, Talion in character learns as much as he can about someone through fighting them, seeing their weaknesses, seeing their strengths, and trying to use that against them. Mindhax is usually closer to a last resort against most Captains, warchiefs, overlords, and he also only can seemingly only use Mindhax against people of his level if they’re near dead, and like I said, he’s never used it against human characters, as he’s empathetic and usually tries to come up with other ways of defeating someone first.

Talion could take it after like 3-4 deaths realizing that he really doesn’t have many options left, but in character he just doesn’t use his mindhax willy nilly against things that aren’t Uruk or Nazgūl.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

This guy is trying to eat his soul. He's gonna Mindhax the **** out of him because that's like some Sauron shit. Also, the Captain's needing to be weakened first is definitely Game Mechanics, unless you want to claim that Uruks are 7-A and can put up a fight with Sauron?

 

[Axxtentacle]

This guy is trying to eat his soul. He's gonna Mindhax the **** out of him because that's like some Sauron shit. Also, the Captain's needing to be weakened first is definitely Game Mechanics, unless you want to claim that Uruks are 7-A and can put up a fight with Sauron?

Meliodas actually doesn’t use soul manipulation in character either, I just presented it as a potential wincon since he would have the ability. As far as I know, he actually doesn’t use it in canon, he just has it since all demons are stated to feed on souls, and things like Red and Gray demons suck the souls out of dozens to hundreds of people at the same time.

It could be game mechanics, but also the Uruk profiles are pretty outdated, and some Uruk do actually scale to Talion, such as The Nemesis, which can outsmart, outfight, and consistently kill Talion. I was thinking about actually mentioning this in a CRT at some point, I just didn’t know how to go about it, as it’s something that just doesn’t sound right at face value.

I can see Talion using Mindhax after a good while, once he exhausts a good bit of his other options.

But, Meliodas also has his Lostvayne, which he can clone himself with by splitting up his emotions, so he could potentially use that to bait out some of Talion’s abilities and potentially use it to avoid being mindhaxxed once or twice, as he is shown tricking characters with his clones consistently. I don’t see it lasting long though, and unless Meliodas got extremely desperate, I can still see Talion using Mindhax against him before he uses soul manipulation since it’s literally extremely unlikely for him to use it.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Additionally, Talion’s Mindhax is through Magic, and since this wiki uses verse equalization, Meliodas can reflect it back at the user, even more powerful than it was sent at him using full counter, or just entirely nullify it with Vanish Counter.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So this really comes down to "Who kills the other first" which then leads to "How many deaths for Talion and how many Haxxes from Meliodas until Talion says **** it"?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Additionally, Talion’s Mindhax is through Magic, and since this wiki uses verse equalization, Meliodas can reflect it back at the user, even more powerful than it was sent at him using full counter, or just entirely nullify it with Vanish Counter.

Can he do that to shit that isn't Physical or Touching his face?

 

[Axxtentacle]

Can he do that to shit that isn't Physical or Touching his face?

If he’s aware it’s happening, yes, but Talion’s mindhax also isn’t instant, though it does become decently quicker in SOW.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

It only takes like a Second or Two with Combat Drain.

 

[Axxtentacle]

With speed equalized and a Demon Mark giving him a boost, it’s not out of the question to say Meliodas could interrupt it, as being hit during the drain nullifies it and he could try to full counter it if he attempts to use it from range.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Oh yeah, Talion has his weird Soul Clone things that he can use to Chain together Stealth Kills, Executions and Shadow Strikes. Theoretically he could also use them on a single target due to Game Mechanics not holding him back here.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Talion can also slow down time while using his Bow.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Jesus, my wifi is finally back. Also yeah, I can see that being applicable, as it seems the only thing keeping him from using multiple of them to assault 1 target is that they’re already in an animation.
The time slow is probably his best wincon, as his mindhax could be nullified.

I think Talion could take this mid-high difficulty, because he’d only need to actually kill Meliodas once to win, as Meliodas’ resurrection takes much longer, but he’s also extremely difficult to permanently put down, partially due to being a demon, and partially due to just being very creative with thousands of years of battle experience, and can nullify a lot of Talion’s attacks.

Obviously I can’t vote, as I made the battle, but if you want to vote for him, I can see it happening.

There’s always room for debate, so if anyone can think of any wincons for Meliodas, it’s greatly appreciated as this battle is very interesting and it’s personally really enjoyable for me to debate, as I’m a big fan of both of these MCs.

I’ll wait and see what happens from here, I think i’ll mostly just be counting votes from here on, unless I see something said that’s blatantly wrong or I feel the need to argue against.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Yeah, I'm voting for Talion High Difficulty FRA.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Yeah, I'm voting for Talion High Difficulty FRA.

Do you know of anyone who’s still active with either of these verses that could give input?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Do you know of anyone who’s still active with either of these verses that could give input?

I have no idea who takes care of these Verses and like I said, I don't know shit about Seven Deadly Sins.

 

[Axxtentacle]

I’ll just look through supporters of the verses and see if there’s anyone in particular I could message.

 

[Axxtentacle]

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[Axxtentacle]

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[Axxtentacle]

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[Axxtentacle]

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