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The Flash vs Sonic the Hedgehog

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ShockingShoes said:
Oh thank you for telling me about the Time Break, the Ichikoro Gauge, and correcting my SA2 knowledge.

The Ichikoro Gauge has never been used outside of Sonic Battle, but i'll ignore that. The Ichikoro Gauge can be countered by Flashes Phasing, but I believe that Flash does not commonly use phasing in character, even against tough opponents. Ichikoro Gauge is a win-con, but it's only if this fight is long and drawn out due to the fact that Hyper Sonic will have to sustain noticeable damage in order to use it, and I think that it's likely Flash will use speed steal first.

Time Stop from both parties is negated by the others ability to also use time stop, disabling any way for anyone to out speed each other.

Wisp is also a valid win condition for Sonic to use, but, Flash can out speed Violet Void, since Black Holes are moving at a speed much slower than Flash and Sonic are. It's literally in one of Wally's feats that he outran a black hole.

I looked at weaknesses for Flash and let me eliminate those since you said the sus out patterns of weaknesses.

  • Flash's accelerated metabolism is irrelevant since he has his connection to the speedforce, as shown in the stamina tab.
  • Sonic doesn't gain his speed from time manipulation, so this is fine

So current wincons are:

Sonic's:
  • Violet Void (by catching Flash off guard, which is possible, otherwise Flash can out speed the Black Holes pull, and Sonic would be unable to spam Violet Void)
  • Ichikoro Gauge
  • Being BFR'ed (if he uses the speed force too much, he'll be trapped in the speed force and the victory will be given to Sonic)
  • Time Stop (despite my earlier statement, Flash lacks complete control of his Time Manipulation powers, so Sonic may be able to find a way to out speed Flash, but this one is unlikely since Flash has the power of the entire speed force and should have higher control over his abilities)
  • Precognition (can be alerted if Flash attempts to sneak attack him)
  • Yelling (if Sonic yells, he can stun foes. If he uses yelling, then he can follow up with Violet Void, but this isn't in character for Sonic to do)
  • Resurrection (despite the fact that this probably isn't a death battle, Sonic can revive himself upon death)
  • Speed Up (probably not allowed since speed is =, but Sonic can increase his speed to outpace Flash)
  • Accelerated Development (may be able to copy all of Flashes win con if he survives them, and may be able to learn other abilities of the Flashes as well)
  • Invisibility (even though it may not be in character, he may be able to combo invisibility with another wincon to have a surefire win)

Flash's
  • Speed Steal (Flash can steal Sonic's speed and then blitz him, but this is not commonly used IC)
  • BFR (can throw Sonic into the time stream, or into the speed force, this is in his post crisis key which he should be capable of)
  • Time Travel (can make it so that he fight's Sonic back in his Classic state, which he's significantly weaker in, Flash has stopped using Time Travel though, seeing it as irresponsible)
  • Intangibility (doesn't use it that often)
  • Major Range Advantage (Low Multiverse < Low Complex Multiverse)

Yeah, I don't have nearly enough knowledge on the Flash to find any appropriate win cons, get a Flash supporter in here! ALSO DID SOMEONE ATTEMPT TO ADD SONIC FORCES JANKY PHYSICS AS RESTRICTED FLIGHT AND SUCCEED WHAT THE FK!

Yup, originally went for the obvious pick, but Sonic has a lot more win cons that are weaker than Flashes.
Click to expand...
Ok so, first Wally does use phasing, just not that commonly, you can’t just take it away as a win con. And speed steal wise, Wally does use it a lot if he feels overwhelmed, and this is exactly what will happen if Sonic starts speed amping himself a lot. Self BFR has not been problem for Wally for a while, violet void would do very little as flash ran through a black hole, Wally’s phasing would allow him to easily avoid Sonic if things go real rough, and his BFR is really good here, as he could just pretend to run away, forcing sonic into speed force. Wally resists time stop, resurrection won’t do much good as Wally would prefer to not kill Sonic if possible, Flash has used time travel quite successfully lately. Overall, despite Sonic having good wincons, I’d give it to Wally for purely better control of the situation. If he becomes really overwhelmed, he can phase to 4th dimension and start avoiding sonic for as much as he wants, and speed steal would be a perfect way for him to finish the fight here, cause it’s much quicker and easier to perform than Sonic’s win cons, and it’s in character for Wally to use against over speedsters, like Zoom. So I’d say Wally.
 
Da_Lunge_Fish said:
Ok so, first Wally does use phasing, just not that commonly, you can’t just take it away as a win con. And speed steal wise, Wally does use it a lot if he feels overwhelmed, and this is exactly what will happen if Sonic starts speed amping himself a lot. Self BFR has not been problem for Wally for a while, violet void would do very little as flash ran through a black hole, Wally’s phasing would allow him to easily avoid Sonic if things go real rough, and his BFR is really good here, as he could just pretend to run away, forcing sonic into speed force. Wally resists time stop, resurrection won’t do much good as Wally would prefer to not kill Sonic if possible, Flash has used time travel quite successfully lately. Overall, despite Sonic having good wincons, I’d give it to Wally for purely better control of the situation. If he becomes really overwhelmed, he can phase to 4th dimension and start avoiding sonic for as much as he wants, and speed steal would be a perfect way for him to finish the fight here, cause it’s much quicker and easier to perform than Sonic’s win cons, and it’s in character for Wally to use against over speedsters, like Zoom. So I’d say Wally.
Click to expand...
ig ill count this as a vote
 
So, to phrase this a little bit better, Sonic's wincons aside from Violet Void which Wally can easily avoid rely on him outbrawling Wally. Which I don't believe will happen, with Wally being capable of going intangible at will and pretty much incapacitating Sonic with a single touch cause game version can't restore stolen speed afaik.
 
Da_Lunge_Fish said:
Ok so, first Wally does use phasing, just not that commonly, you can’t just take it away as a win con. And speed steal wise, Wally does use it a lot if he feels overwhelmed, and this is exactly what will happen if Sonic starts speed amping himself a lot. Self BFR has not been problem for Wally for a while, violet void would do very little as flash ran through a black hole, Wally’s phasing would allow him to easily avoid Sonic if things go real rough, and his BFR is really good here, as he could just pretend to run away, forcing sonic into speed force. Wally resists time stop, resurrection won’t do much good as Wally would prefer to not kill Sonic if possible, Flash has used time travel quite successfully lately. Overall, despite Sonic having good wincons, I’d give it to Wally for purely better control of the situation. If he becomes really overwhelmed, he can phase to 4th dimension and start avoiding sonic for as much as he wants, and speed steal would be a perfect way for him to finish the fight here, cause it’s much quicker and easier to perform than Sonic’s win cons, and it’s in character for Wally to use against over speedsters, like Zoom. So I’d say Wally.
Click to expand...
For phasing: Included it as a win con, but I said he doesn't use it often, exactly as you said, didn't take it away.
Speed Steal Wise: Good point on that.

my argument was that Flash had stronger but less commonly used win cons. You have really good points for Flash winning. I don't think Flash would consider these right away, as unlike villains, they aren't instantly threatening to kill Wally and take away everything valuable to him, Sonic is a 3-4 foot tall rainbow hedgehog.
 
ShockingShoes said:
For phasing: Included it as a win con, but I said he doesn't use it often, exactly as you said, didn't take it away.
Speed Steal Wise: Good point on that.

my argument was that Flash had stronger but less commonly used win cons. You have really good points for Flash winning. I don't think Flash would consider these right away, as unlike villains, they aren't instantly threatening to kill Wally and take away everything valuable to him, Sonic is a 3-4 foot tall rainbow hedgehog.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I’m pretty sure half of these battles realistically would start with one guy laughing at how 2d the other guy looks or something. But, I do think Sonic would win fra
 
ShockingShoes said:
For phasing: Included it as a win con, but I said he doesn't use it often, exactly as you said, didn't take it away.
Speed Steal Wise: Good point on that.

my argument was that Flash had stronger but less commonly used win cons. You have really good points for Flash winning. I don't think Flash would consider these right away, as unlike villains, they aren't instantly threatening to kill Wally and take away everything valuable to him, Sonic is a 3-4 foot tall rainbow hedgehog.
Click to expand...
For phasing it's less about using it to kill Sonic and more to just avoid his attacks. And yes, Flash wouldn't start with speed steal, but again, since none of Sonic's wincons but the violet void are insta kill, if Flash starts getting overwhelmed by it he would have no reason to hesitate to use speed steal for incap
 
Da_Lunge_Fish said:
For phasing it's less about using it to kill Sonic and more to just avoid his attacks. And yes, Flash wouldn't start with speed steal, but again, since none of Sonic's wincons but the violet void are insta kill, if Flash starts getting overwhelmed by it he would have no reason to hesitate to use speed steal for incap
Click to expand...
You forgot about Ichikoro Gauge
 
So basically, Wally could really end the fight whenever he wants, while Sonic needs to either fill the gauge (if it's dura neg at all) or try to outbrawl Wally.
 
Da_Lunge_Fish said:
Ichikoro gauge needs to be filled, and it only one shots 5-B characters, honestly nothing suggests it negates durability and doesn't just hit really hard, and even if it does it again needs to be filled.
Click to expand...
Technically since Super/Hyper Sonic has infinite Energy, it would probably already be filled tbh
 
Da_Lunge_Fish said:
How do they exactly work?
Click to expand...
sonic.fandom.com

Violet Void

The Violet Void (バイオレット・ボイド, Baioretto boido?) is a transformation that appears in the Sonic the Hedgehog series. It is the Color Power gained by absorbing a Violet Wisp and its Hyper-go-on, which turns the user into a ghost-like void. When using the Violet Void, the user turns into a large...
sonic.fandom.com sonic.fandom.com
 
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