The Elder Scrolls: Metaphysical Studies and Discussions - Lesson One

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Funny how the consistency of the lore can be equated to that quote in the OP, for the more you examine, the more it all makes sense:

The third spirit, At-Hatoor, came down to the netchiman's wife while she relaxed for a while under an Emperor Parasol. His garments were made from implications of meaning, and the egg looked at them three times. The first time Vivec said:
'Ha, it means nothing!'
After looking a second time he said:
'Hmm, there might be something there after all.'
Finally, giving At-Hatoor's garments a sidelong glance, he said:
'Amazing, the ability to infer significance in something devoid of detail!'
'There is a proverb,' At-Hatoor said, and then he left.

What is art but the practice of instilling as much meaning as possible in as little details as possible? Although I wouldn't call The Elder Scrolls a series that skimps on details, the microscopic side of things -- the stories like the Lesons of Vimec -- are as interesting as the cosmology, which is actually thematically rich instead of just dizzying.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

So hey, i know next to zero on TES.

Which game do i watch/play first?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Skyrim is the best game for newbies.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

And after that?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Morrowind with Mods is the best thing ever but it's not as accesible.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Too bad my Pc is so shitty it can't even handle Morrowind.

Thank you for the suggestions tho.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Too bad my Pc is so shitty it can't even handle Morrowind.

r i p

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

@Matt - Guess I've got a new ringtone. Though my mom actually did have FF7's "One Winged Angel" as a ringtone at one point. It was great.

Incidentally, to feebly attempt to move things back in the philosphy department, I'd like to remark how it's interesting that near the higher eschelons of TES cosmology, there are these two entities (Anu and Padomay) that embody order/good and chaos/evil; I see this as TES declaring that morality is not a concept created by humans, but by the Godhead, which is one of the few things above those two entities. Very interesting stuff.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Follow

See, the funny thing is that looking at the conflict of Anu and Padomhe as one of Good and Evil is a very limited perspective. They embody Stasis and Change respectively, far more abrangent and amoral concepts.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Do tell? That kind of makes me think that my theory that Sakatal (the entity that may be formed by Anu and Padomay put together) embodies all the concepts in the TES verse. But would you say my observation is invalid?

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

lol

One time i tried to play Morrowind. It was 8 FPS and almost exploded my PC.

Good times.

Also man that's a lot of Skyrim

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

https://www.imperial-library.info/content/vehks-teaching

I recommend reading this, from "The Tower" onwards to get a better sense of the Metaphysics.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Query: the article says the Tower exists beyond "duplexity, antithesis, or trouble," which indicates existence beyond duality. How do Padome and Anu exceed duality while still being diametric opposites of each other?

Incidentally, beyond the Wheel in that article lies the Void, which is said to be bereft of everything, so I think that supports my theory of Sakatal (or at least Padomay and Anu) embodying all concepts in the verse, or at least exceeding them by virtue of existing in the void and creating the Wheel. Would you agree?

EDIT: To make sure we're on the same page: Padome and Anu live in the Void, Padome and Anu created the Wheel, the Wheel embdies all concepts since the Void outside it is nothingness, the Wheel created the Tower, to exceed the tower is to exceed duality.

Perhaps this duality one exceeds via the Tower is simply the duality of one's human nature? After all, there is uniformity in Anu and Padoma, but that uniformity (whether it be uniform stasis/good or change/evil) has an opposite.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Follow

In TES, Duality is by itself a false, inexistent concept. All dual concepts are in truth one thing, reflected in two disparate ways.

Anu and Padhome are one being manifested as two, not wholly separate beings.

All Tamrielic religions begin the same. Man or Mer, things begin with the dualism of Anu and His Other. These twin forces go by many names: Anu-Padomay, Aniel-Sithis, Ak-El, Satak-Akel, Is-Is Not. Anuiel is the Everlasting Ineffable Light, Sithis is the Corrupting Inexpressible Action. In the middle is the Gray Maybe ('Nirn' in the Ehlnofex).
- The Monomyth
The lover is the highest country and a series of beliefs. He is the sacred city bereft of a double. The uncultivated land of monsters is the rule. This is clearly attested by ANU and his double, which love knows never really happened.
- 36 Lessons of Vivec, Sermon 35
For a direct example of this, see Satakl, the Yokudan God of Everything:

Satakal (The Worldskin): Yokudan god of everything. A fusion of the concepts of Anu and Padomay. Basically, Satakal is much like the Nordic Alduin, who destroys one world to begin the next. In Yokudan mythology, Satakal had done (and still does) this many times over, a cycle which prompted the birth of spirits that could survive the transition. These spirits ultimately become the Yokudan pantheon. Popular god of the Alik'r nomads.
- Varieties of Faith in the Empire
Also, the Twin Gods Akatosh and Lorkhan - Gods of Time and Space respectively - are in fact one being. They two are direct subgradients of Anu and Padhome's souls, worth noting.

You can follow that rabbit hole here if you want.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Ahhh, I see. Duality does exist in a sense, but in a way that it's a black side and a white side of the same coin, as opposed to a black coin and a white coin?

Also, I'll be sure to check out that chart. And I'm happy to see my understanding of Satakal proved correct.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Ahhh, I see. Duality does exist in a sense, but in a way that it's a black side and a white side of the same coin, as opposed to a black coin and a white coin?

That would be correct.

I also think that, looking at the concepts said to be embodied by Anui-El and SITHIS respectively, that neither concepts are bound by duality, although they are naturally opposed to each other.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Yes, they are uniform within themselves and have no internal duality, but they a have a black coin to their white coin, and vice versa (external duality).

Slightly off-topic, but I've been finding this theme of duality in an interior (two sides of the same coin) and an exterior (a white coin and a black coin) sense in many of Hitchcock's works, especially in Psycho. He also talks about this in his biography book, -- I think it was "A Life In Darkness and Light," though it might have been a different one -- which is strongly endorsed by Hirohiko Araki (author of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure) in his book Manga in Theory and Practice. I just thought that was interesting.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

As I sit here in the perfection of this garden, I contemplate the Sacred Numbers that we recognize as Ausipicious and critical to the existence of the universe.

Three is the Number of the Prime Celestials, as embodied in the sun and the two moons. It is also the number of my perfect daughters, which is why we shall produce no other heirs.

Five is the Number of the Elements, for reality consists of Earth, Air, Water, Fire, and Aether. It is also the number of books I have open upon my desk at any given time.

Eight is the Number of the Planets, as well as the sum of three plus five. Eight is also the limit I impose when drinking glasses of Gossamer Tawny Port with the members of my philosophical society—no more and no less.

These are the Good Numbers. And the sum of the Good Numbers, which we call Sixteen, is a very powerful number indeed.

We must beware the Bad Number, though, for Two lacks vision and attempts to display duality, which we all know is impossible. - Thoughts on the Sacred Numbers

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Dualities do exist, but only as a concept for the Enantiomorph to overcome.

 

[Maxnumb231]

Why is their profiles not been upgraded to outerversal?

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Shhhhhhh

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Why is their profiles not been upgraded to outerversal?

Search for them and see what happens.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Why have they all been deleted?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Because they were basically nothing at this point and would need extremely heavy revisions after all tiers and scaling are determined, anyway.

Or Matt secretly hates TES and wants to get rid of it to spite Bethesda.

 

[Maxnumb231]

Why is Matt being like that? We need more infos in TES. Cuz people now using outerversal cuz of the lore.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Vehk being Country level just doesn't sit well with me. It is probably easier to make new ones instead of fixing them all.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The profiles were without exaggeration the worst in the Wiki. They were all but nothing in terms of Stats, Powers, and Information and did nothing to the series as a whole. So I let Ultima delete them.

We will need heavy revisions to fix them.

Nevermind the fact that they were all extremely downplayed by a person who very clearly dislikes TES during a time no one paid attention to the franchise om the wiki, and as a result it gave us shit like Island level Aldui.

You know, the Existence-Devouring, Timeline-Rebooting Aspect of Akatosh, the Embodiment of Time.

 

[Self_Love]

"I also dislike a lot of the out of game works by MK, like C0DA and such. Because they just make Vivec into such a ******* mary sue"

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

We had a Low 2-C Numidium at one point. The thing had timelines revolving it at one point.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Lol.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

We had a Low 2-C Numidium at one point. The thing had timelines revolving it at one point.

A lot of the downplay came from the lovely argument of

"It's medieval fantasy, they can't be strong".

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

The Numidium sings. It'll be the new "Nihilus speaks".

 

[Ultima_Reality]

"We know nothing about CHIM"

"The Gods are vague and have little information regarding them"

Best arguments

10 / 10

 

[The_Everlasting]

"We don't know if the Aedra even exist."

 

[Ultima_Reality]

"We don't know if the Aedra even exist."

>An avatar of Akatosh wrecks Mehrunes

>on-scree

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

Not that this can be applied to every case, but I think it says something if most downplaying arguements start by saying that something isn't known, as opposed to knowing something that is contradictory.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

>An avatar of Akatosh wrecks Mehrunes

>on-scree

You talk to Avatars of Talos, Mara and Zenithar in Morrowind. Nevermind that Auri-El's bow and Dibella's Paint Brush are recurring artefacts.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Also the fact that Shor is 100% real and has a Throne in Sovngarde. And the Maruhkati Selective caused a Dragonbreak after trying to erase aspects of Akatosh

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Ultima

You legit fight Tsun, Shor's Shield Bearer in Sovngarde. And both Mehrunes Dagon and Hermaeus Mora mention Xarxes, a god exclusive to the Altmeri Pantheon, as a real being they've interacted with.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Speaking of which I like the fact that you personally defeat three different gods in Skyrim and are heavily implied to be a Shezarrine, but people still think that the Last Dragonborn is a normal human.