The Boys discussion thread

[Just_Butchering]

Although I wasn't a fan of season 5,

I personally liked the episodes, they weren't bad, but they never felt like "final season" material. But Ep1, Ep5 and Ep6 were really good imo

I really liked the last episode.

The finale has a lot of questionable stuff, but overall I liked it

RIP to my favorite character Frenchie

RIP
Though on thag topic, and if anyone cares lol, Hughie is my favorite, he was solid this season, even if somewhat sidelined.

 

[ShionAH]

Yeah but there is enough evidence that supports V1 being an adrenaline rush similar to regular V for us to consider it that.

Whats the evidence? You cannot use the stuff V does to say V1 also does it without any implications, since they are two different things

 

[Ethnikistis]

Whats the evidence? You cannot use the stuff V does to say V1 also does it without any implications, since they are two different things

Because it looks like an adrenaline rush(The laser scene) and he didn't get any stronger in the Finale.

 

[Ethnikistis]

I personally liked the episodes, they weren't bad, but they never felt like "final season" material. But Ep1, Ep5 and Ep6 were really good imo

The finale has a lot of questionable stuff, but overall I liked it

Though on thag topic, and if anyone cares lol, Hughie is my favorite, he was solid this season, even if somewhat sidelined.

The first eps were fine,and overall on their own they weren't bad,but ep7 failed to build up the finale and the others showed similar flaws....

I liked the Finale except from some incontinencies,the fight was great.And I liked Butchers ending a lot with how it turned out with Ryan.

And yeah Butcher's and Hughie's relationship and writing are amidst my favourite across all superhero media.

 

[ShionAH]

Because it looks like an adrenaline rush(The laser scene)

Looks don't matter

and he didn't get any stronger in the Finale.

He did, he flies to space and back in 2 secs. They just nerfed him at the end/Ryan was stronger than we thought

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

And he didn't, he didn't knew A-Train was coming so it was he only shot at saving Hughie.

I didn't said anything about A train what I mean is he himself having a chance to save Hughie by holding HL down for a min and running away.

What I mean is that a weaker supe can affect a stronger one with the right "weapon", even supes use objects against each other. Yeeting a car at high speeds should be enough to temporarily stop Soldier Boy, but it's not like it need any serious damage, plus Butcher ran away.

Which sane person would want to fight a guy who can take away their powers? Also I already mentioned he was avoiding the fight throughout the series.

It doesn't support anything, we don't even know how hard Ryan was going.

Butcher states he is not easy to break by the kind of Ryan.

With his tendrils, yes. But not his own body.
He killed Neuman with those, and Neuman is meant to superior to Kimiko. I can see his tendrils putting the work better than Kimiko, but not to the point of scaling to Homelander, specially since in the finale Butcher is also fighting physically, which makes no sense.

Punching and pushing are different things. Has Kimiko damaged Butcher with her attacks? Or Butcher failed to smoke her? From what I remember she got thrown around by Butcher even in first episode he physically overpowered her

Didn't knew Bombsight was the new strongest. Also, Butcher himself lasted nothing while Soldier Boy put up a fight and basically won it. That right there shows Butcher is weaker.

Why HL being strongest means he is super strong physically. Doesn't that mean HL is overall strongest thanks to everything he has? Also why can't he SB be slightly weaker and still win against stronger characters? Also why can't he Bombsight have slightly better Physical power than HL? Wait I know because statement but like I said here by feats he is shown to be superior. I'm not saying he wins a fight but toughness obviously Bombsight shown a better feats. Unless you think HL was lowering his durability when he fought Butcher and SB in S3 so that SB hand wouldn't get damaged. HL most likely can win with overall stuff if you want to take the strongest superhero into account.

Tendrils lifting strength, nothing else.

Sure.

Yeah but you're saying he "weaker but comparable" when in fact he far weaker and that's it.

He is not far weaker. He handles Kimiko easily

Kimiko is the one who is actually treated varying in power throughout the series. She is one moment fights Stormfront next moment gets cooked by bullets
Same Stormfront brushes off Mauve once.
Same Mauve could damage HL?
Like this is not Butcher being weak.

No, it's because he hasn't had a single feat that scales him anywhere close to Homelander, and I'm "fixated" only because it keeps being brought up with the argument "nah, the one fight in the finale is what matters and everything else is PIS".

I already listed instance were he doing good with high tiers.

 

[ShionAH]

Anyone who says Bombsight is stronger than Homelander should be banned from interacting with any type of fiction

 

[Ethnikistis]

Looks don't matter

Yes they do,you can clearly tell that Homelander feels an adrenaline rush and lasers the skies because of it.

He did, he flies to space and back in 2 secs. They just nerfed him at the end/Ryan was stronger than we thought

Nothing really suggests that was out of his ordinary anyways.
In the final fight his lasers seem normal/weaker(due to inconsistencies).
Point is there is no definite proof to clearly say that he got stronger.

 

[Ethnikistis]

Anyone who says Bombsight is stronger than Homelander should be banned from interacting with any type of fiction

Who even says that.
Anyone who says that Homie isn't top 1 inv,then theyre objectively wrong.

 

[ShionAH]

Yes they do,you can clearly tell that Homelander feels an adrenaline rush and lasers the skies because of it.

Nothing really suggests that was out of his ordinary anyways.
In the final fight his lasers seem normal/weaker(due to inconsistencies).
Point is there is no definite proof to clearly say that he got stronger.

I never said he was stronger anyways? I said his heat vision has better speed and range

 

[57Dev]

One thing I am confused about. SB and Kimiko got their power from Radiation exposure. Kimiko got her powers from just 30 seconds of exposure.

But Homelander was in for minutes. Where is his power up ? It's definitely about the dosage. Frenchie was keeping it from 5-10 seconds, sister sage came in and calculated that 30 seconds is where you reach the point.

Homelander was there for far longer.

 

[Ethnikistis]

I never said he was stronger anyways? I said his heat vision has better speed and range

No definitive proof of that either.No one could dodge his lasers(Only preemptively),so if they got faster we wouldnt be able to tell unless someone commented on it.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

One thing I am confused about. SB and Kimiko got their power from Radiation exposure. Kimiko got her powers from just 30 seconds of exposure.

But Homelander was in for minutes. Where is his power up ? It's definitely about the dosage. Frenchie was keeping it from 5-10 seconds, sister sage came in and calculated that 30 seconds is where you reach the point.

Homelander was there for far longer.

From what I understand they created some kind of atmosphere it's not just about 30s of exposure stuff.

 

[Ethnikistis]

One thing I am confused about. SB and Kimiko got their power from Radiation exposure. Kimiko got her powers from just 30 seconds of exposure.

But Homelander was in for minutes. Where is his power up ? It's definitely about the dosage. Frenchie was keeping it from 5-10 seconds, sister sage came in and calculated that 30 seconds is where you reach the point.

Homelander was there for far longer.

Not just the time duration,other parameters ,different calculations.Sage said that Frenchies numbers were close but not the exact ones.They also underwent some preparation steps before putting Kimiko in.Frenchie wouldn't risk accidentally giving the blast to Homie.

 

[57Dev]

But in total Homelander still got blasted with more radiation. So.. is there like a point. No less, no more ?

Not to mention since Soldier Boy and Kimiko are just using concentrated radiation and Homelander has shown to be highly resistant to it, he should have more resistance to their beams.

 

[Ethnikistis]

But in total Homelander still got blasted with more radiation. So.. is there like a point. No less, no more ?

Its not about the amount of radiation,but precise calculations and parameters.

Not to mention since Soldier Boy and Kimiko are just using concentrated radiation and Homelander has shown to be highly resistant to it, he should have more resistance to their beams.

To its AP maybe.To the V removing hax,no and thats confirmed.

 

[Legion350]

But in total Homelander still got blasted with more radiation. So.. is there like a point. No less, no more ?

Not to mention since Soldier Boy and Kimiko are just using concentrated radiation and Homelander has shown to be highly resistant to it, he should have more resistance to their beams.

It wasn’t just 30 seconds, Kimiko had multiple exposures to the radiation. It seems like it has to be spread out to work, under the right conditions. Homelander could’ve gained the resistance if he kept exposing himself to radiation.

I think it generally works like Mithridatism, with enough doses of radiation boosting immunity over time. Kimiko was trying to speedrun the process. It seems like you either need a large timeframe with lower doses, or a shorter timeframe with Sage’s method.

 

[PurposeDevine00]

I would argue Mister Marathon could have easily been lying. And I don’t think we got time frames for A-Train getting the V to different continents

In season 1, Homelander says he sent A-train around the Globe and he was still relevant and seen throughout the episodes so it couldn’t have taken him more than a couple hours i’d guess.

 

[Just_Butchering]

I didn't said anything about A train what I mean is he himself having a chance to save Hughie by holding HL down for a min and running away.

I meant that Butcher would risk it all for Hughie

Butcher states he is not easy to break by the kind of Ryan.

Context matters:
Nice one.

But I don’t break easy no more.

Not like Mallory.

You’re a right tough lad, ain’t ya?

Killing an old lady, then ******* off to Russia.

He basically just said that he didn't break as easily as a human

Punching and pushing are different things. Has Kimiko damaged Butcher with her attacks? Or Butcher failed to smoke her?

Jesus am I talking in a foreign language? I'm denying his victory, but he had to put effort for his victory, she took several hits, she wasn't one shotted

From what I remember she got thrown around by Butcher even in first episode he physically overpowered her

Already addressed this before

Why HL being strongest means he is super strong physically. Doesn't that mean HL is overall strongest thanks to everything he has? Also why can't he SB be slightly weaker and still win against stronger characters? Also why can't he Bombsight have slightly better Physical power than HL? Wait I know because statement but like I said here by feats he is shown to be superior. I'm not saying he wins a fight but toughness obviously Bombsight shown a better feats. Unless you think HL was lowering his durability when he fought Butcher and SB in S3 so that SB hand wouldn't get damaged. HL most likely can win with overall stuff if you want to take the strongest superhero into account.

Nah bro that is just a wrong opinion.

He is not far weaker. He handles Kimiko easily

With some effort*, plus gets clapped by Bombsight

Kimiko is the one who is actually treated varying in power throughout the series. She is one moment fights Stormfront next moment gets cooked by bullets

Noir isn't bulletproof either, what?

Same Stormfront brushes off Mauve once.
Same Mauve could damage HL?

Oh yeah, the famous same Maeve, because the training she did especifically to fight homelander, saying "might get some good licks in", implying she wasn't even sure she could do it

Like this is not Butcher being weak.

He failed to oneshot kimiko and lost to Bombsight, he ain't Homelander strong.

I already listed instance were he doing good with high tiers.

And I gave you counters

 

[Ethnikistis]

In season 1, Homelander says he sent A-train around the Globe and he was still relevant and seen throughout the episodes so it couldn’t have taken him more than a couple hours i’d guess.

Well at that point his canon speed was Mach 1.3 so whats the point in calculating that?

 

[Just_Butchering]

Well at that point his canon speed was Mach 1.3 so whats the point in calculating that?

Pretty sure A-Train just did off screen
As in, we don't know when he left and when he came back

 

[CharlesZaGreat]

Bruh, I turned on the new to check the weather. What is blud yappin' about

 

[Just_Butchering]

OK, so, clearly when it comes to Butcher's scaling there are ultimately feats that just contradict each other. However, the wiki page on outliers says that narrative may help which is the intended power level of a character. And so, I found this:

We spent about six weeks in the writers room figuring out what the season’s gonna be. And [we thought] it would be delightful to de-power him even for a little bit and see what an absolute ***** Homelander really is without his powers. Once we knew we were going there, we knew [it was] with Kimiko, who makes sense because she’s regenerative — especially coming off of Frenchie’s death. But if you go back, in Episode Four, Butcher is watching Soldier Boy’s Russian video. In Episode Five, he’s wheeling all this machinery into the room, saying he and Frenchie are working on something. We were dropping the breadcrumbs all along to build up to that moment.
It’s Kimiko’s blast that takes away Homelander’s powers. Was there ever a point where you thought the blast could have come from Soldier Boy himself?
"No. I think we owe the audience to have the Boys bring down Homelander and not overthink it. Not say, “I know you’re expecting the Boys to beat Homelander after tuning in faithfully for seven years, but we’re not gonna give it to you. We’re gonna give it to the Gen V kids or Soldier Boy or anything.” To me it was always, no, the Boys have to do it. And it has to be Butcher at the very end. It has to be."

The writers had the intention for the final fight to be won by only The Boys (and Ryan, I guess) and they also intended for Kimiko to have the radiation powers. So, with the obvious need to fight and restrain Homelander, that only really leaves someone capable of doing that: Billy Butcher.

Additionally, we have this:

[Butcher] Which… makes Rock Hard the perfect lab rat. Indestructible or nearly, almost as strong as Homelander, and no one gives a **** about him. So we nip in, twat him, bring him back here for a dose of kill juice. Lemon ******* squeezy. So… let’s get cracking.

Now, english isn't my native language and I don't know many british slangs, but according to google, twat means to "hit" or "beat up" someone, so, Butcher claims he can fight someone nearly as strong as Homelander, which I guess is proven true.

Does this remove the contradictions in power scaling? No, not at all, but at least it (sort of) settles is.

 

[ShionAH]

Snip

Who's gonna update Storm Front's profile btw? She has some insane hax from S5

 

[Just_Butchering]

Who's gonna update Storm Front's profile btw? She has some insane hax from S5

What hax?

And I was planning on editing all the profiles after settling the speed stuff (Which I'm just waiting for one more calc to get accepted)

 

[ShionAH]

What hax?

Immortality Type 4 (Did you see her body?), Mind Manipulation (Soldier Boy suddenly loves her more than anything), Plot Manipulation (That's what Clara would have wanted)

 

[57Dev]

Just saw three episodes of Spider Noir and even the first three episodes have more action than entire final season of the boys.

The budget difference isn't even that massive. The Boys is 12 million dollars while Spider Noir is 18.75 million dollar per episode. Do take into account that Nicholas Cage probably has a higher salary than Anthony, Jensen and Karl Urban combined. And they have to constantly built environments and sets to keep the 1930's setting.

 

[Ethnikistis]

OK, so, clearly when it comes to Butcher's scaling there are ultimately feats that just contradict each other. However, the wiki page on outliers says that narrative may help which is the intended power level of a character. And so, I found this:

The writers had the intention for the final fight to be won by only The Boys (and Ryan, I guess) and they also intended for Kimiko to have the radiation powers. So, with the obvious need to fight and restrain Homelander, that only really leaves someone capable of doing that: Billy Butcher.

Additionally, we have this:

Now, english isn't my native language and I don't know many british slangs, but according to google, twat means to "hit" or "beat up" someone, so, Butcher claims he can fight someone nearly as strong as Homelander, which I guess is proven true.

Does this remove the contradictions in power scaling? No, not at all, but at least it (sort of) settles is.

Doesn't this just remove the "Butcher sorta scaling to Homie" inconsistencies?

 

[Just_Butchering]

Doesn't this just remove the "Butcher sorta scaling to Homie" inconsistencies?

No, it doesn't remove them lol
But at least we get the idea the writers had for Butcher's scaling

 

[Qawsedf234]

So when can we upscale Homelander to Tier 5/2?

Speaking with The Wrap, The Boys showrunner Eric Kripke chose Homelander over Superman. While giving his reason for picking Homelander as the winner, he explained, “I mean, obviously, I got to give to my boy Homelander. The thing is Homelander will fight dirty.”

He added, “Is Superman stronger pound for pound? Probably. But is Homelander willing to murder Lois Lane and rip off Jimmy Olsen’s face and wear it as his own face? And you know, rip Krypto limb from limb?”

Underlining the key factor that gives Homelander an edge over the Man of Steel, he said, “Homelander just doesn’t have the morality that Superman does and that’s a strong advantage.”

 

[Alexander]

 

[Queen_Dasania]

I’m just about done with the Boys comics. A few things. First off, I do think the lifting strength of Butcher, Hughie, and base supes in general can easily be Class 5. Butcher says the serum makes them 15 to 20 times stronger, then Mallory says it makes them 20 times stronger. There are also many instances of them completely obliterating fellow supes

Also, I’m curious about the speed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FeatCalcing/s/ctm1JGZLMQ

This calc has Butcher dodging at subsonic to massively hypersonic speeds, whichever end you wanna take

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:CowHeadGod/The_Boys_-_Herogasm_Flight

This has dupes flying at Massively hypersonic speeds

We’d obviously need both of these calcs redone and approved and all. But they’re worth looking into

I know A-Train was said to run at Mach 3, but not in a way that limits him to only Mach 3 imo. I forgot the exact context, but someone said they wanted a Mach 1… idk how to spoiler and if I should, but Mach 1… service from Queen Maeve lol. And I know that a few of the Payback characters can generate shockwaves when flying

So our supersonic+ combat speed currently listed does seem like a good number for now. But Massively hypersonic seems possible for the comics, and I don’t think it has the crazy number of contradictions that the show does

Then again though, I guess it could, given that bullets and missiles can kill supes. Whatever the case, just figured I’d open up some conversation about this

 

[Queen_Dasania]

I’m just about done with the Boys comics. A few things. First off, I do think the lifting strength of Butcher, Hughie, and base supes in general can easily be Class 5. Butcher says the serum makes them 15 to 20 times stronger, then Mallory says it makes them 20 times stronger. There are also many instances of them completely obliterating fellow supes

Also, I’m curious about the speed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/FeatCalcing/s/ctm1JGZLMQ

This calc has Butcher dodging at subsonic to massively hypersonic speeds, whichever end you wanna take

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:CowHeadGod/The_Boys_-_Herogasm_Flight

This has dupes flying at Massively hypersonic speeds

We’d obviously need both of these calcs redone and approved and all. But they’re worth looking into

I know A-Train was said to run at Mach 3, but not in a way that limits him to only Mach 3 imo. I forgot the exact context, but someone said they wanted a Mach 1… idk how to spoiler and if I should, but Mach 1… service from Queen Maeve lol. And I know that a few of the Payback characters can generate shockwaves when flying

So our supersonic+ combat speed currently listed does seem like a good number for now. But Massively hypersonic seems possible for the comics, and I don’t think it has the crazy number of contradictions that the show does

Then again though, I guess it could, given that bullets and missiles can kill supes. Whatever the case, just figured I’d open up some conversation about this

I will say, Butcher dodging the lightning could easily be aim dodging. And lightning speeds vary drastically too, depending on the power output. So that also could make it vary

Also, if we assume that the time frame for the flight is hours rather than minutes, then this becomes 416 m/s, or a supersonic feat

I do know Homelander flew from NYC to DC in his final takeover. But we aren’t given a time frame im pretty sure. And they’re only like 226 miles apart, so at Mach 3, it would only take homelander like 6 minutes

So actually, I think supersonic+ still works. But these feats might still be worth looking into

 

[Phirse]

In season 1, Homelander says he sent A-train around the Globe and he was still relevant and seen throughout the episodes so it couldn’t have taken him more than a couple hours i’d guess.

This plan was set in motion for a long time irrc. Yh pretty sure it was. Even using A train's average speed over 400 meters of mach 1, which is likely a low ball. It would only take him like 60hrs max which is doable over a large enough time period.

 

[Excellence616]

So when can we upscale Homelander to Tier 5/2?

Homelander would realize with his real eyes that even when massively holding back, Clark will stomp the shii outta him and Homelander killing Lois, Jimmy and Krypto (even when the Super dog stomp the verse even when his limbless) would make it way worse.

 

[PresentTrunks]

I was going to make a respect thread for every feat in The Boys, but I don't have the effort. So here's some random shit I found that's maybe in the Tier 9 or 8 range.

There's this kind of bad canonical game (even though it doesn't really make sense timeline or continuity-wise) called The Boys: Trigger Warning. Basically, lower-tier supes are being dosed with Temp V by Vought to augment their powers, and the protagonist, Lucas Costa, is a newly created Supe/member of The Boys who has to defeat them.

The Armstrong family are considered bottom-shelf Supes in terms of power, as they were candidates for Project Janus. The post-Season 3 Seven are each far more powerful than The Armstrongs and Lucas Costa to the point where Billy Butcher advises Costa (even with Temp V) not to fight them. Two of these guys (neither of whom were amped at the time, I think) collapsed part of a building and could erect pillars of rock.

Lucas Costa shattered Parkool's rock pillar and impaled him through the floor.

One of The Armstrongs was dosed with enough Temp V to fry a city block (if Butcher is being literal). It's worth noting that Costa doesn't take anywhere near this level of Temp V, but was amping himself with lethal levels of Temp V for some of these fights.

 

[Ethnikistis]

So when can we upscale Homelander to Tier 5/2?

Appeal to authority.

 

[PresentTrunks]

realize

Realise, real eyes, real lies

 

[Phirse]

why isn't Homelander at tier 4. He outscales Black Hole and characters who could survive in a singularity? He should be star level.

 

[mgtsti]

Butcher claimed he could beat someone who is nearly as strong as Homelander, but in the same episode, he also claimed that he isn't strong enough to move Rock Hard, who weighs about 30,000 lb.

So downscale to Homelander's LS?