The Binding of Isaac: Game Mechanics gone wrong

[Assaltwaffle]

I think it is safe to say that Isaac's page doesn't look too good. In fact, its justifications are almost all unjustified, nonsensical, and/or use game mechanics as legitmate feats. Going over them doesn't yield any answers:

Small Building level (His tears are able to harm and kill Mega Satan even without a damage upgrade item)

Why is harming Mega Satan Small Building? Mega Satan has no profile or is there a calc or justification for this rating. It seems completely random. Also, being able to do any damage to a unit in a video game doesn't mean they actually scale. If that were the case we would have 6-C Skeever and High 7-A StarCraft fodder. While I am aware the Binding of Isaac somewhat lacks in true lore, we can't just assign random ratings for no reason. Fighting with tears seems pretty much unquantifiable without actual feats or calcs, and Mega Satan certainly has no reason to be Small Building.

AP: Likely Peak Human (Able to outrun the Fallen and Satan's foot) with Superhuman Reactions (Able to dodge bullet hell like projectiles)

Why is the Fallen and Satan's foot this fast? Who knows! There is no calc or justification for this speed. How is dodging slow moving projectiles (in the grand scheme of things) justification for Superhuman Speed?

Striking Strength:Class MJ (His tears are able to harm and kill Mega Satan without a damage upgrade item)

His tears are a projectile and thus likely wouldn't fall under "Striking Strength." Edit: My statement may be incorrect.

Durability: At least Building level (Able to take blows from Mega-Satan and lose only 1 heart or 1/3 of his health. The most damage that Isaac has ever taken is only 1 heart or 1/3 of his health in default state)

What even is this? Not only is this, once again, completely game mechanics, but how does taking a hit from a previously put Small Building character end up as "At least Building?" This doesn't even make mathematical sense even if you say "he can take two hits and live." He would have to be on the high end of Small Building to get close to this even with that ridiculous logic, but even then how does the "At least" come into this? At least for what? What vastly superior (yet lacking proper evidence to place higher) hit has he taken? Why and how is this here?

Honestly this whole profile is a mess. Until There are legitimate feats or explanations for why in the world these ratings are present all aforementioned ratings need to be changed to Unknow.

Edit: I was unaware Satan even had a page, since it is not linked to in the justification. His ratings are still questionable and I don't think it helps the situation much, however.

 

[DontTalk]

Mega Satan is listed as a key for sata, though not incredibly helpful.

I am also not sure about small building level for mom and satan. That is because that depends on wether the room are actually, well... room sized. Isaac himself is about 1/3 the size of mom in the intro. The gameplay changes that, though. I am uncertain how large anything in the game is supposed to be accepted.

In regards to scaling Isaacs AP to Satans dura I also would like to add that he is ranked based on durability through size of mom. That should neither scale to other bosses nor to a character that usually requires multile hits to take her down, because that kind of dura doesn't translate to minimum AP to harm, but just minimum AP to oneshot.


So I basically agree that the stats are questionable.

If the size doesn't isn't agreed to come out very low, we might be able to rank certain stuff (like Isaacs durability and those who scale) from bombs as wall level, though.

 

[Woodgod]

Most of this seem fair.

Expect for Striking Strength: Its state to be he physiscally force that the character can put out. Doesn't mean the force that character can put out using only their physical body. Although I'm not very sure about this but I'm discussing it with an admin and he/she said that projectiles do count as stricking strenght.

For The speed: Isaac is scale from Satan page (which satan is putted peak human). For reaction speed, I think its fair to put it as super human due to the over-whleming projectiles that he can avoid (also not every projectile in the game is slow, look up hush or delirium fight.

Mega satan page is the same as Satan.

PS: using vulgar language is ban in this website. So I'm encourage you to take that Johntron clip out (The "what" link). I don't really care but I don't want you to get ban. lol.

 

[Nico-v11]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Although I think that this verse in general is just VERY hard to even calculate or tier. It's all basically game mechanics and not much else

 

[Antvasima]

@Assaltwaffle What do you suggest? That we should delete the profiles, place the statistics as unknown, or something else?

 

[RadicalMrR]

Ill try and do some calcs for the verse, they shouldnt be that difficult.

 

[Woodgod]

@RadicalMrR, Thanks.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I don't think deletion would be necessary. While it could be argued that nothing in the game actually happens (as it is implied Isaac dreams it), I think getting some calcs about Cage's ground break or Satan's similar feat would be advisable. That will give legitmate feats rather than "this guy is big so he can do this." I don't know if being as big as a room would even give anything higher than Room level, though I may be wrong.

Once we have calcs and feats it would be much more reasonable to scale these characters, or at least give Satan his upgrade/downgrade. I still don't know if being able to beat Satan in base form would be scaling or just game mechanics since he isn't meant to be beaten by a base level Isaac. It would take a really good player an extremely long time to achieve this, and would be tantamount to beating someone to death with a squeegee; can it be done? Probably. It is actually effective and does it scale? I have my doubts.

 

[RadicalMrR]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:RadicalMrR/TBoI_Calcs

 

[Antvasima]

@Assaltwaffle Okay.

@RadicalMrR Thanks. As usual, you can ask here for an evaluation: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/549708

If at least one calc group member accepts the calculation, and none disagree, you can use the results.