The Big Bleach Speed CRT

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, I'm still with Damage all the way, especially after that long epic post.

 

[Damage3245]

Aizen has demonstrated the ability to neg the effects of attacks with raw reiatsu, so it not effecting him is not a valid counter. We have also seen that lightning doesn’t really paralyze characters if sufficient power: look to young Yama tanking a lightning bolt and plenty of people tanking Candice’s lightning that surpasses real lightning.

That is possible, yes. I'm just pointing out the alternative interpretation is possible too. And that the attack doesn't cause paralysis.

Regarding Zommari, what Byakuya hit was a Gemelo Sonido clone, so he didn’t even hit an actual target.

I never tried to say otherwise. I know he hit a Sonido clone. That point was regarding the appearance of the Kido, not its effects.

Ichigo can move just fine after he breaks free of white’s control. His spiritual pressure is still creaking his bones. The only difference being that significant time has passed since being hit by Byakurai. If Ichigo’s spiritual pressure was what slowed him to immobile then he wouldn’t have been able to move later. What happens is this, Ichigo is hit by Byakurai, Ichigo cant

And yet Ichigo was not immediately immobilized by Byakurai?

As readers we are told once that Gin’s Zanpakuto can move at Mach 500 and that it’s the fastest. We are then told that Gin lied about how fast it moves.

Yes, but as readers we do not know for certain what Gin told Aizen.

And even if is a lie, it cannot be drastically different from what he claimed it to be. Do you think Aizen, second-smartest person alive in the series, would be duped if Gin claimed his Bankai was Mach 500 but it was multiple times faster?

If we accept that what Gin says to Ichigo is truth then we still run into a contradiction: Byakuya’s petals move faster than Mach ~900. So Gin says his Mach 500 Bankai is the fastest but that’s incorrect and doesn’t match up with our scaling.

That is Byakura after training. Gin wasn't around to witness how much faster Byakuya has become.

Tokinada scales to FTL, this is no anti feat for Tokinada.

That's irrelevant to my point, but the FTL scaling will be dealt with in time.

We have a nobody character with a Zanpakuto that can attack with lightning speeds. He’s a nobody which means this is a common occurrence. Stop making him out to be someone unique and special. He is a face in the crowd, indistinguishable from the rest. The fact that a no name can have a lightning speed Zanpakuto and no one makes a big deal about it, implies it has never been a big deal. There’s tens of thousands of fodder Shinigami easily, and for your argument to pass you’d have to assume that he’s the only one to have ever had a lightning speed unreleased Zanpakuto. It just doesn’t work, he’s generalized with the rest of the fodder like we do with the rest of the fodder in the verse. This nobody’s Zanpakuto can reach lightning speeds in the hands of a stranger who picked it up off the battlefield, yet Captains can’t do that in a century of training?

Yes, we shouldn't assume that without evidence.

 

[Damage3245]

@DarkDragonMedeus; thank you for commenting. I think that makes four or five staff members in agreement thus far. With one in disagreement - though Warren did say he was just does with the thread.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

To comment on Gin’s character real quick.

Gin is a snake, Gin lived a lie his whole life never being able to speak what he wanted to speak in death.

We are straight up told he lied, with our only reference being to Mach 500, the simplest conclusion is that he lied.

I’ll respond further to your response later.

 

[Zoro21043]

i agree with arc
and if what gin said was true it would contradict us having lightning based zanpakutos

 

[AppleLord]

Why are moderators disregarding lore, personality, and story over what @Damage3245 thinks he is seeing on paper?

 

[Tyri456]

@Damage3245 regarding Byakuya vs Yammy, yammy could not see him, while he was able to follow Ichigo. And he was also able to cut him casually while ichigo could not.

.

 

[Damage3245]

@Tyri456; I meant to respond to that earlier.

When Byakuya did his opening Kido move to Yammy, it was a surprise attack. Hence why Yammy then looked around and wondered who did that, moments before his leg was also cut by another surprise attack from Kenpachi.

As for him hurting Yammy more than Ichigo did, Ichigo not performing at his best at the time due to being on low power.

 

[00potato]

Why are moderators disregarding lore, personality, and story over what @Damage3245 thinks he is seeing on paper?

This.

 

[Duedate8898]

"Gathers high-density spiritual energy at the fingertip and discharges it all at once."

This means literally nothing, All Kido is created through Spiritual Energy, but the Kido spell changes the energy into whatever attack and gains whatever properties apply to the Kido, this includes elemental properties.

Fire Kido burns as Fire does, Wind Kido blows as Wind does, Water Kido makes you wet as Water does - Spiritual Energy by itself doesn't do these things, but through Kido, their energy is transformed into these things and take on these attributes.


If a Lightning Kido looks like Lightning, acts like Lightning, and is literally called lightning. Then it probably is lightning, and thus, is as fast as lightning. Occam's Razor is clear on how to act in these scenarios. -Warren

To target this point specifically, there is one big noticeable difference between fire and lightning. Fire is only ever fire, and is pretty consistent with how it functions in the real world and fiction normally. Lightning however, is only a form of electricity. And since this is only one form/state of electricity, we don't automatically assume that any signs of electricity equals lightning. Case in point the lightning standards of the site, they exist for that very reason. And in the case of the kido being argued, it fails to show those properties consistently enough to be just taken as that at face value.

And once again, naming really should not be taken so literally in bleach. Just like at all the other kido's out there:
Tsuriboshi means Suspending Star, yet it isn't an actual star and is more like a net to catch people
Kakushitsuijaku means Footprint-Attentive Pursuing-Sparrows, which honestly tells you little about what the actual kido does, this one being a kido that displays the longitude and latitude of your target.
Hyapporankan means Hundred Steps Fence and there is no fence with a hundred steps being made there, it's just a barrage of energy that overwhelms the target.

These aren't the only kido's that are like this so to assume that the name means exactly what it's saying isn't really backed by how the kido's are portrayed.

 

[Makstar05]

To target this point specifically, there is one big noticeable difference between fire and lightning. Fire is only ever fire, and is pretty consistent with how it functions in the real world and fiction normally. Lightning however, is only a form of electricity. And since this is only one form/state of electricity, we don't automatically assume that any signs of electricity equals lightning. Case in point the lightning standards of the site, they exist for that very reason. And in the case of the kido being argued, it fails to show those properties consistently enough to be just taken as that at face value.

And once again, naming really should not be taken so literally in bleach. Just like at all the other kido's out there:
Tsuriboshi means Suspending Star, yet it isn't an actual star and is more like a net to catch people
Kakushitsuijaku means Footprint-Attentive Pursuing-Sparrows, which honestly tells you little about what the actual kido does, this one being a kido that displays the longitude and latitude of your target.
Hyapporankan means Hundred Steps Fence and there is no fence with a hundred steps being made there, it's just a barrage of energy that overwhelms the target.

These aren't the only kido's that are like this so to assume that the name means exactly what it's saying isn't really backed by how the kido's are portrayed.

Hyapporankan actually makes 100 railings/fences to bind the target.
Tsuriboshi is a suspended net in the shape of a star.
Kakushitsuijaku is used to pursue/track the target.
All the mentioned names actually potray the basic function/properties of the respective Kido.
And there are many Kido which live up to their name.Few of them are Kurohitsugi,Goryutenmetsu,Rikojokuro,Kuyoshibari,Sajo Sabaku etc.

 

[Duedate8898]

My point is to not take all the names literally because not all of them literally mean what they're describing.
With Hyapporankan, it isn't making actual fences or railings, just rods of energy.
Neither is the Tsuriboshi an actual star like the one we have in the sky.
And Kakushitsuijaku gives no real indication to its tracking nature, besides mention of a sparrow which still doesn't say much.

 

[Zoro21043]

I'm unwatching this thread after i type this
the aaronierro dodging light hasnt been debunked
the other interpretation by damage is headcannon nothing implies that even the anime contradicted itself as i proved above
the other interpretation damage made up making sense doesnt make it correct as it makes sense only when you ignore the narrative of the fight
i repeated this many times but ill say it again
rukia has no way of knowing if aaronierro needs to be exposed to light long enough to take effect meaning she believes he is fast enough to dodge the whole point of what she did was to make sure if light will affect him as she later says "why did he run"( and starts theorizing) and then after her plan works "i suspected sun light would neutralize your transformation" the way it is said doesnt suggest that rukias plan was to get him exposed long enough it was just to expose him to light as she wasnt even sure if it had an effect to begin with him dodging light made her remember what he previously said
stop using mental gymnastics and using your own headcannon
the manga disagrees with your interpretation.

 

[AppleLord]

Ichigo needs an order of magnitude upgrade on his profile with his black Getsuga Tensho. Ulquiorra compared his black Getsuga to an Espada's released state Cero aka Cero's Oscuras. Chapter 346. (This only applies to his charge up cero oscuras with the mask while in Bankai.)

 

[Damage3245]

@AppleLord; that should probably be posted in the general discussion thread, it's not relevant to the speed CRT.

As a general update for people, I'm re-modifying a little bit of the scaling blog, then working on the Post-Timeskip scaling blog to jot down everybody's ratings that are affected by the Pre-Timeskip calc updates.

 

[Damage3245]

Continuation posted here: https://vsbattles.com/threads/the-big-bleach-speed-crt-part-2-post-timeskip.109741/