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Thanos CTR (Marvel Comics)

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ObberGobb

ObberGobb

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I have compiled a list of feats that support an upgrade to Thanos' tier placement. I have 8 feats here that justify a tier placement higher than Solar System Level, of which several support him being Universe Level or even far higher.

Durability


  • Survived a 2 light-year radius black hole. To put this size in perspective, the largest known black hole, TON-618 has a Schwarzschild radius of 0.02055626 light years, 97 times smaller than the black hole Thanos survived. Multiply the mass of TON-618 by 97 and you get 1.261e43 kg. Another way to look at this is that the Milky Way has a Schwarzschild radius of about .25, meaning that the black hole Thanos survived had a density 8 times greater than our galaxy. Multiplying our galaxy’s density of 1.6e42 by 8 gets you 1.28e43 kg, which is pretty consistent with the other number. This is at least Galaxy Level, and probably Multi-Galaxy Level. While this is a really impressive feat that indicates a level far higher than his current Solar System tier placement, it isn’t even that impressive compared to some other feats he has shown.
  • Fights a long battle against Odin. Odin himself even says “It has been eons since I have fought such a foe. Even in defeat you are an adversary worth saluting, Thanos of Titan.” This clearly shows that while Thanos is weaker than Odin (He did lose the battle after all), he is comparable as Odin considered it a good fight. Keep in mind that in this fight, Odin was furious because he thought Thanos attacked an imprisoned Thor, so he had no reason to hold back. This is either Low Multiverse Level or Multiverse Level+. In my opinion, this is his strongest feat. This took place in Warlock and the Infinity Watch Vol 1 #25.
    • Scans: 1
  • Tanks a blast from Walker, which only brought him to his knees. As Walker is a God of Death, he should be comparable to characters like Mephisto or Hela, making this Low Multiverse Level or Multiverse Level+. In addition to this, Death herself felt the need to hide herself from Walker in order to protect her life. This again puts Walker at easily Multiverse Level+.
    • Scans: 1, 2
  • Survives a large attack from Kosmos/Maker/Beyonder. Kosmos is Multiverse Level+. This dialogue in these scans suggest that he is capable of surviving more than this: “He’s rumored to survive worse, Peter”.
  • Survived being consumed by Hunger, a being which has consumed entire realities. While Hunger does not have a page on this wiki, the fact that he has consumed realities should put him at Universe Levelat a minimum, but he is likely far, far, higher. This took place in Thanos Vol 1, written by Jim Starlin and published in 2004. It should be mentioned that Jim Starlin created the character.
    • Scans: 1, 2
  • Tanks two attacks from Peter Quill with the Cosmic Cube. The Cosmic Cubes are Multiverse Level+. This took place in Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 4 #19, written by Brian Michael Bendis and published in 2017.
    • Scans: 1, 2

Durability w/ Shields:


  • Survives an attack by Omega Thanosi, someone twice as powerful as Galactus. While he barely survived, and it was with his shields, this is still immensely impressive. This should downscale from either Low Multiverse Level or Multiverse Level+. This took place in the Infinity Abyss storyline, written by Jim Starlin and published in 2002.
    • Scans: 1
  • Survived an attack by Galactus. Similarly to the Omega feat, while he barely survived he still downscales from either Low Multiverse Level or Multiverse Level+. This took place in Thanos Vol 1, written by Jim Starlin and published in 2004. Also written by Jim Starlin, like the Hunger and Omega feats. Because these two feats are written by the character’s creator himself, they hold extra weight.
    • Scans: 1
Portrayal


  • Consistently portrayed to be closer to the tier of characters like Odin or Galactus than he is to the tier of characters like Thor or Silver Surfer. This is shown in the fact that he has shown that he is capable of effortlessly stomping Solar System level characters or even fighting a team of several of them at once, while these same characters can’t do anything against him. Compare this to his portrayal compared to Multiversal characters, where he survives their attacks, even multiple in a row sometimes, and is strong enough that they even compliment him. This shows that while he is far, far, above Solar System level characters, he is only slightly below Multiversal level characters.
  • Thanos sits at a gathering of the “most powerful entities in the universe” alongside Galactus, Mephisto, etc. This took place in Falcon Vol 2 #2, written by Rodney Barnes and published in 2017.
    • Scans: 1
  • Summoned alongside the gods to fight the Marquis of Death. It says “None can stand against the Gods” in a panel showing Thanos standing alongside Galactus and Odin, again implying he is on a relatively comparable level.
    • Scans: 1

In conclusion, Thanos clearly downscales to characters like Galactus, Omega, Walker, Kosmos (Beyonder), Odin, etc.. This is consistent across time, as all of these feats took place over a wide range of years; across authors, as a variety of authors wrote these stories; in his place in-universe, as he is respected by characters like Odin and Galactus and considered powerful enough to sit with the most powerful beings in the universe (Including Cosmic Abstracts); as well as with the vision of his original creator, as many of these Multiversal feats are in stories Jim Starlin wrote himself. At a minimum, I think he should be Galaxy Level. However, my personal opinion is that Universe Level+ would be the best way to scale him, as this accounts for has downscaling from them while still showing that he isn't quite on the same tier. We could also do something similar to what was done with Thor and Silver Surfer, and put him at "Solar System Level, Low Multiverse Level at his peak". Does anyone have any issue with this?

Sources:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/than...itypotential-thread-respect-the-avat-1917884/
 
He had prep time for quite a lot of these. The Galactus one for example.


Tho I definitely agree he doesn't belong on 4B, but him being changed to a higher tier would mean a lot of other characters need to go through that change too. Some of which can be quite inconsistent. Maybe he needs a 4B to [whatever tier you are proposing] with prep time?

Although the Marquis one seems useless in this scenario. It just feels like an artistic choice. Also last time I read that arc, it wouldn't make tons of sense of Marquis (616) - kind forgot the reality number, so not sure - to know about Thanos and his power levels.
 
Confluctor said:
He had prep time for quite a lot of these. The Galactus one for example.


Tho I definitely agree he doesn't belong on 4B, but him being changed to a higher tier would mean a lot of other characters need to go through that change too. Some of which can be quite inconsistent. Maybe he needs a 4B to [whatever tier you are proposing] with prep time?

Although the Marquis one seems useless in this scenario. It just feels like an artistic choice. Also last time I read that arc, it wouldn't make tons of sense of Marquis (616) - kind forgot the reality number, so not sure - to know about Thanos and his power levels.
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Oh, the Galactus and Omega ones are definitely with Prep. I was thinking the Universe Level+ I recommended before, with an added "higher with shields" for Durability. As for the Marquis thing I listed, that was intended to be a power feat. I just put that to show that he has been portrayed alongside Galactus and Odin several times, as in-universe portrayal goes a long way to showing that these are not outliers.
 
The black hole feat needs an accepted calc, you should have worked on that before this thread.

He was getting notably overpowered in the fight w/ Odin and achieved nothing in it, Odin was just happy to fight someone a bit stronger than Thor level characters.

It's clear that Walker wasn't trying to kill Thanos and it makes no sense how someone ~= to Death can scale to him.

The “He’s rumored to survive worse" is super dishonest when the comic just went over the sheer size of the explosion shown.

You should have worked on a profile for the Hunger before making this thread, we can't just take your word that he's on that level, and he isn't, he eats realities over time and the dude got mostly destroyed by a mere and literal planetary collision, not even an attack from a stronger character that just so happened to be that big.

Many things wrong. Peter had no idea how to properly use the cube, this was Thanos' whole argument in all the fight, and at times they did use the cube to annihilate Thanos in that very same fight.

A mere outlier or the size of the destruction was what was used for its power.

The same Galactus was badly damaged by the same planetary collision said before, those feats don't matter.

There are years of improvement to be had here.
 
Eficiente said:
The black hole feat needs an accepted calc, you should have worked on that before this thread.

He was getting notably overpowered in the fight w/ Odin and achieved nothing in it, Odin was just happy to fight someone a bit stronger than Thor level characters.

It's clear that Walker wasn't trying to kill Thanos and it makes no sense how someone ~= to Death can scale to him.

The “He’s rumored to survive worse" is super dishonest when the comic just went over the sheer size of the explosion shown.

You should have worked on a profile for the Hunger before making this thread, we can't just take your word that he's on that level, and he isn't, he eats realities over time and the dude got mostly destroyed by a mere and literal planetary collision, not even an attack from a stronger character that just so happened to be that big.

Many things wrong. Peter had no idea how to properly use the cube, this was Thanos' whole argument in all the fight, and at times they did use the cube to annihilate Thanos in that very same fight.

A mere outlier or the size of the destruction was what was used for its power.

The same Galactus was badly damaged by the same planetary collision said before, those feats don't matter.

There are years of improvement to be had here.
Click to expand...
I understand your criticisms on some of the feats, particularly the Star Lord w/ Cosmic Cube one. However, many if the feats still stand:
  • My point in the Odin feat is that his durability should scale to Odins's Multiversel Level attack potency. He couldn't harm Odin, but that's why I suggested downscaling to one tier below.
  • The Omega feat still holds up, as he is twice as strong as Galactus
  • Kosmos feat still stands as well, even if you consider the "he's rumored to have survived worse" to be exaggeration by the characters. Amount of damage done by the explosion also doesn't really matter, as AP =/= DC.

My point is mainly that Thanos is closer to these characters than he is to Thor/Silver Surfer tier characters, which I think his general portrayal easily supports.

As for the black hole one, I will try to get that approved.
 
Eficiente is correct in his evaluations. There is no good way to tier Thanos, given his sheer level of inconsistency during his confrontations with other characters, and the inconsistencies of the displayed power levels of those characters as well. As Eficiente said, Galactus was almost killed by a planetary collission and nuclear stockpile explosion in combination during the Hunger story, for example.

In addition, Marvel's black holes do not work like regular real life ones, or an awful lot of Thor-level characters would be High 3-A.

As such, it seems like we have to tier Thanos largely from his own feats and most consistently shown power levels.

That said, we rate Hela with an "At least [Thor's tier], at most [Mephisto's and Odin's tier]" rating, so maybe we should do something similar with Thanos?

@Zensum @C2_of_Omegon @Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @Sandman31 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Newendigo @Ehnkr2beboh @Tllmbrg @Deagonx @Elizio33

What do you think?
 
I'd rather avoid this for Thanos considering he's someone characters are often compared to or scale of from what I'm aware so we should have a more definitive tier, or we just agree to not use Thanos for scaling for other characters unless it's someone that primarily fights him or something
Also for the record the Cosmic Cube is dubious since that Cube got drained by Rider using it to open a portal to escape the Cancerverse so
 
ObberGobb said:
However, my personal opinion is that Universe Level+ would be the best way to scale him, as this accounts for has downscaling from them while still showing that he isn't quite on the same tier.
Click to expand...
There’s many other problems with the OP, but this isn’t how Tier 2 scaling works. The Marvel 2-Cs aren’t baseline, so you can’t downscale to Low 2-C from them (and I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t be able to even if they were baseline).
 
ObberGobb said:
Fights a long battle against Odin. Odin himself even says “It has been eons since I have fought such a foe. Even in defeat you are an adversary worth saluting, Thanos of Titan.” This clearly shows that while Thanos is weaker than Odin (He did lose the battle after all), he is comparable as Odin considered it a good fight. Keep in mind that in this fight, Odin was furious because he thought Thanos attacked an imprisoned Thor, so he had no reason to hold back. This is either Low Multiverse Level or Multiverse Level+. In my opinion, this is his strongest feat. This took place in Warlock and the Infinity Watch Vol 1 #25.
Click to expand...
Can't lie, I agree here. I wrote an analysis of this fight a while back:
The comic is Warlock and the Infinity Watch #25, and even if you don’t accept the Odin scaling, he was still part of a fight tearing apart the Universal structure that is Asgard. Many are quick to use Odin no-selling blasts from Thanos and Surfer, but Thanos tanks a blast from Odin on the very same page. Odin goes on to stagger Thanos and after taking 1 blast, he knocks out Surfer. Neither Thanos or Odin are going all out yet, so this should show how irrelevant Surfer was in this fight.

While Odin tanks a blow and knocks Thanos back, Thanos still was capable of knocking Odin back. Next, Odin flat-out states he and Thanos have similar energy reserves, direct confirmation from Odin that Thanos scales. Odin then needs to pull out Gungnir, which should prove he wasn’t holding back. Thanos is capable of latching on to it, and Odin compliments his power. Thanos is still capable of getting up, and Thanos #14 shows a flashback of Thanos and Surfer overpowering Odin. While Odin mostly had control of this fight, he complimented and compared their power, and even needed to pull out Gungnir.
Click to expand...
I don't really see this as the same spite fight everyone else puts it as. Anyways...
Tanks two attacks from Peter Quill with the Cosmic Cube. The Cosmic Cubes are Multiverse Level+. This took place in Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 4 #19, written by Brian Michael Bendis and published in 2017.
Click to expand...
Cubes have been shown as > Thanos before (Thanos Imperative #6/GoTG #25). So, I don't think this is usable for scaling.

Honestly, I've perfectly fine with Thanos being upgraded, but at the same time I'm fine with him staying around what he's at. I do find this the best, though:
Antvasima said:
As such, it seems like we have to tier Thanos largely from his own feats and most consistently shown power levels.
That said, we rate Hela with an "At least [Thor's tier], at most [Mephisto's and Odin's tier]" rating, so maybe we should do something similar with Thanos?
Click to expand...
Also, while out of his realm, Mephisto runs away from a fight with Thanos after being handed a defunctive Cosmic Cube (Infinity Crusade #6). So, that could possibly support 2-C. I'm in a bit of hurry at the moment so I'll see if I can add more stuff another time.
 
Okay. Never mind then. Thanos should stay they way that he is in lack of better options.

Should we write a footnote for his profile page to avoid lots of future confusion though?
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. Never mind then. Thanos should stay they way that he is in lack of better options.

Should we write a footnote for his profile page to avoid lots of future confusion though?
Click to expand...
What are some inconsistencies for thanos that put him below galaxy level? I think if we made it clear, the number of posts like these trying to upscale him would be lower
 
His fights against Thor, Captain Marvel, Avengers the like.

I think if it wasn't for Hickman's Avengers run and those civil war ii appearances of Thanos, he would have easily been upgraded. But these are a few of his appearances in the 21st century that makes his rating sketchy.
 
He is too inconsistent, yes, and whenever he fights a character far beyond his tier, their power levels seem to get severely downgraded by the writers in order to hype Thanos.
 
I can't remember any specific ones ATM, but I will look for them.


Thanos, unlike most, had a consistent growth in terms of power when written by Starlin - albeit some times others are slightly weakened. So, when other writers use Thanos, they usually have him fight lower tier characters, so that sort of create inconsistency.
 
Not to derail, (although it is sort of related to this thread), wasn't it said that Thor's hammer contains a cosmic storm the size of galaxy?


I hated Aaron's run, so I try to block it out, but I do recall something similar from the book. If it is real, wouldn't that raise Thor's rank slightly, and Thanos' fights against him less inconsistent?
 
Starlin also tends to write other characters confronting Thanos as far less powerful than at their peaks.

Anyway, I also consider Jason Aaron's writing to essentially be living cancer, defiling and completely distorting anything that it touches, with no respect whatsoever for established continuity and characterisation from far superior authors.
 
Definitely agreed there. Aaron cannot write anything well these days. His take on Thor couldn't be worser. And he is still ruining his mythos. It sucks.


And yeah, agreed there, Ant. That's one of the few things I dislike about Starlin. It's quite disappointing
 
Long story short, Aaron's retcons are made for the convenience of story. You should look into every comic he wrote in the last decade. Everything is plot convenience.

Also the galaxy storm in the hammer also retcons Thor's "natural powers/abilities"
 
Jason Aaron fills everything he writes with massive retcons and severely distorted personalities, generally turns it very morbid, and spams lying political propaganda that deliberately severely misrepresents how society genuinely works in combination with the above. Much like Garth Ennis, he seems like a genuinely disgusting human being.
 
Yes. My apologies. As you probably know, I get angry at times over how several modern writers have destroyed something that was once great. Let's get back on topic.
 
For surviving the black hole, should it grant resistance to gravitational manipulation, and radiation? Also spatial manipulation
 
Just resistance to black holes at best I think, given that Marvel's black holes are something that characters can sometimes wrestle with and sometimes act as dimensional portals.
 
My main point in most of these feats wasn't to say that he is on the same level as these characters, but to point out that he is generally portrayed to be closer to them than he is to Herald Tiers. And as far as some of his anti-feats go against the Avengers and such, couldn't you point the same things out about basically everyone? If you scaled them based on their worst modern-era feats, you would gets things like "Celestials are 4-B because they scale to the Mad Celestials who lost to the Avengers". "Odin is only 4-B because he fought evenly with Jane Foster Thor", "Iron Man is only 8-C because Captain America beat him". I do acknowledge that these anti-feats exist and should be taken into consideration, and that's why I think we should do the same thing that we did with Thor. Thor is listed as "5-A, 4-B at peak". So for Thanos, I think we should do like "4-B, ____ at Peak". I'm not sure what everyone would be comfortable with for the "peak" tier placement, but I do think it should be higher than 4-B. Even 4-A would do a lot to show how he is far stronger than Herald tiers.
One question though: I am still kind of confused as to why scaling Thanos to Low 2-C wouldn't work from Odin. Odin's profile says that he is "At Least 2-C", so why could you not downscale to their tier below that? Would just saying "Likely 2-C" work better for Thanos?
 
Again, we have to go with the most consistent portrayals, and other than fighting some severely depowered characters, Thanos has no feats remotely of that scale.
 
Antvasima said:
Again, we have to go with the most consistent portrayals, and other than fighting some severely depowered characters, Thanos has no feats remotely of that scale.
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But why won't the Odin one work? There is no reason at all to assume Odin was depowered, and even though Thanos lost, he still survived several attacks, attacks that were Multiversal. So if Thanos can survive Multiversal attacks, why would his durability not be Multiversal?
 
Odin should definitely get downgraded to planet level. There are too many, and I mean wayyyy too many anti feats to still hold the Low 2-C position.
 
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