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Teon's 9-A Brackets, Round 12

Litentric_Teon

Litentric_Teon

6,247
670
Fantasy Landscape 2
Jesus (Madness Combat) won the last round

Current Standings

9-A forms.

Speed is equalized.

Starting distance is 25 meters.

Battle takes place on the location indicated by the picture.

Daud, submitted by WeeklyBattles, has a AP of 376 MJ

Nephthys Philae, submitted by Litentric Teon, has an AP value of 675 MJ

Have an enjoyable debate!
 
I'm hoping for you, Daud. You can win this.
 
Tldr Can Daud beat a swarm of immortal birds that multiply upon death?

He needs to get to Nephtys and kill her before she swarms him with birds.
 
I won't be able to make a solid argument for a while. I have an exam coming up in some hours.

Though I will point out that half of the above is outed just by the fact that Nephthys and her birds can fly. So mines on the ground won't work too well, and dust will be less effective since she can fly upwards. Her range is likely also better. I'll also point out that she can see what her birds see, and hear what they hear. So catching her by surprise will be incredibly difficult, if not impossible simply due to the sheer number of vultures that will be about.

I never understood the teleportation that stops time. Teleportation is instant, so no time passes, meaning time cannot be stopped during a teleportation.

Anyhow, if possible, I'll be back later today. But it's more likely that I'll be back tomorrow.
 
@Liten Take your time, its not going anywhere

However i will point out that the mines are placeable on walls and buildings, which will affect the birds if they fly near them, and it is entirely a thing for Daud to throw canisters of baffle dust into the air and shoot them to spread them through he air and into wide areas, and if her birds breathe it in they, and she by extension, will forget what she is doing and who she is looking for. Sleep Darts have a range of several dozen meters, why its only listed as several meters i have no idea as its entirely possible to snipe people with darts from across any given level in the game given a clear shot. Daud can also summon other assassins that have some of his powers to scout for him and set traps, so they both have methods of looking for the other without doing so themselves. Also youre assuming Daud will be sloppy enough to let himself be seen or heard if he doesnt want to be.

As for his timestop, when he is teleporting he stops time to aim, and so long as he doesnt teleport but continues to aim he is able to keep time stopped so long as he doesnt move.
 
TBH I kinda want Daud to win just so I can actually make pictures for these matches, I can't make any of my cool pictures for Nephythys's matches cause she doesn't have any pictures ovo
 
AoE Baffle Dust actually seems incredibly useful here and might let Daud pull through.
 
Thank you for the link, Weekly.

The only thing I'm not really a fan of is his limited probability manip. I don't think it would be very effective here since her birds are sentient, and follow her orders, so they're not a standard projectile, or a projectile at all since they physically attack.

But for other fighters, it seems like hitting him from range would be incredibly difficult, paired with the fact that he has extremely high AP.

How hard would you say it is to hit Daud with a ranged attack? I'd like to get extreme clarity on his probability manip before we continue forward.
 
Looking at these three remaining fighters makes me realize

Delirium is hecking screwed for Grand Finals
 
Oh shoot i didnt even notice that Liten had responded lol, my bad

His probability manip literally only affects projectile attacks like guns and crossbows, nothing else.

I mean considering he can use his timestop to aimdodge a projectile attack with teleportation i'd say its pretty damn hard
 
All good.

Why would it only affect guns and crossbows and not things like fireballs, lightning bolts, or energy attacks? Being able to nope any ranged attack without having to do anything, while neat, paired with the fact that he has a major AP advantage seems unfair to most of the other entries if this is indeed the case.

Fair enough on the teleportation, lol.
 
Oh, lol. That's so weird.

If it only works specifically on bullets and crossbows then it should be fine. Those are two very specific types of projectiles.

Guess I'll continue this. I"ll make a small argument, since I don't have time for much else.

There's no real buildings or anything for Daud to place the mines and things onto. There's in an area that's rather sparsely populated by trees, with the giant hands being the closest thing to a building. She also has no need to fly to any place she's been to attack him, she can just let her birds do the attacking, as she normally does.

I also feel like it's out of character for him to teleport several hundred meters in the air. If there's instances of him doing so, please do correct me.

Sleep darts will be harder to hit due to the large population of birds that will be flying about. It's far more likely that they'll hit a bird as opposed to Nephthys herself. In particular since her mobility through flight is general superior to Daud's mobility in general, barring his teleportation.

As for stealth and dust, I very much doubt she would let herself be caught in any kind of strange dust or mist considering there's a a character in verse that has rather lethal mists. She also has the aerial mobility to avoid such. And, once again, there's a far higher probability that something will befall one of her dozens to hundreds of vultures before anything happens to her. Stealth is less relevant due to where they're fighting. And Daud will be incredibly hard pressed to hide from the sight of dozens to hundreds of vultures being mass produced when there's very little place to hide. Additionally, it's easier to see from the high ground regardless.

I'm also unsure how fast Daud would attempt to decapacitate. I see no reason why he would try to put a vulture coming at him to sleep rather than just trying to kill the swarm coming at him first, thinking he could and then having to try to deal with five times that swarm.

That's all for now.
 
The hands, trees, and ground are more than enough space for him to lay traps, and he can also use assassins and his teleportation to stick traps directly to her. If he's being attacked by birds he's going to figure out real quick that his opponent is controlling them, he's dealt with opponents who use animals as an extension of themselves to fight, specifically the Brigmore Witches.

If there's nothing for him to teleport to in the air then can cant, but as i mentioned before if he is being attacked by birds he's going to know to take them down as soon as possible and if his opponent is suspended in mid-air he would be able to teleport to her. Alternatively he can just pull her our of the air with his telekinesis.

If a dart hits a bird thats one less bird Daud has to deal with, and his Assassins that he summons can also use sleep darts as well, and can teleport and use TK as well.

And yes, again, the dust taking care of some of her vultures is still less vultures that Daud has to deal with in the long run. And again, he can rip her out of the air and bring her close with TK.
 
But Nephthys will literally be hundreds of meters above all of his traps, well outside their range. Her flight literally renders any planted traps completely ineffective. Additionally, it'll be hard for him to place traps with a swarm of vultures coming at him relentlessly.

There's literally just air. Best he could do is likely teleport to the top of a tree, which won't get him any significant deal closer to Nephthys. It sounds like it's ooc for him to teleport to a purely airborne target, so I doubt he would do such.

Telekinesis is a good answer, but the issue relies in the mechanics of it. Is it that strong to simply pull her out of the air even with her struggling against it? Will be be able to maintain it with vultures covering his view of her and seeking to take him out? Probably not.

Lastly, the point about Daud not starting with incap but with means to kill still stands. Daud wouldn't know what the birds can do, and within the first several seconds of the fight, he would likely end up multiplying his troubles by five, and literally having hundreds of vultures to deal with. I highly doubt he would just stop dealing with the vultures to try to attack a target literally out of his reach. Does his TK have a range of a hundred+ meters? If not, he won't be able to TK her unless he teleports to a random position in the air, which is ooc (and he's be falling after doing that anyway).

Taking out a few when she can manifest more than he takes out doesn't mean much. A few shot by sleep darts or caught in gas, she can restock and overstock on her vultures in moments. Nephthys only strains herself in the amount she can produce at once as opposed to the total amount she can produce. So she'll produce as much as is necessary. And if the birds happen to set off any of the lethal traps that they may fall into while pursuing Daud, his troubles will multiply by 5.

Generally speaking, I don't think he'll be able to get enough time to properly target Nephthys without the hundreds of large vultures getting in his way. In particular since she can she through their eyes.
 
Yes. If the vultures are to "die" they will multiply instead of die. Dragons in verse can use things such as flames, and flames that would turn demons to ash can trigger the vultures.

If what would happen would cause the bird to die, unless it's something special, the bird should simply multiply instead.
 
Seems like Daud's dealing with a lot of birds.
 
Nah, at worst he would kill one or two, see them duplicate, and know to stop killing them

Timestop teleportation also makes it pretty easy to bypass them, they'd essentially become flying footstools for him
 
It wont be hard at all when he timestops to aim his teleportation. One good teleport to her is all he needs to slap an arc mine on her back and kill her.

Its in character for him to teleport to an airborn target, its just that he physically cant teleport into open air, he needs a target in order to teleport to it, in this case Nep or the vultures are the target. He can teleport directly to her in stopped time thus bypassing the vulture swarm.

Yes, it is, its strong enough to overpower Corvo and other opponents with supernatural powers comparable to and sometimes superior to his own, and he has Class 1 LS with it. Technically even if she summons 100 vultures he would be able to pull them all, especially if he has assassins working with him.

At most he would kill one or two, see them multiply, and know to stop killing them. Daud has dealt with supernatural animals and entities numerous times in the past, he's intelligent enough to figure stuff like this out. And yes, he would be able to bypass the vultures via teleporting in succession using the vultures as stepstools. And yes it does, i know that his profile doesnt currently reflect it but thats what the current CRT is for.

The vultures really, truly wont be as big of a hinderance as youre making them out to be my dude, if anything they'd serve as footstools for him to teleport to in order to get closer to without them being able to hurt him due to his timestop.
 
Shadow kill would result in the vultures multiplying then.

If he can't teleport into open air the how is he going to reach her at all? You're saying he can use the birds as footstools but the birds will be flying away from Nephthys and towards him at that moment, and she can fly whenever she desires. She has the mobility advantage, not Daud.

It's also not as though she'll just be sitting still. She'll be flying through the air, releasing her birds. If Daud can't teleport into open air, then he literally cannot reach her. Teleporting atop a vulture is still teleporting into open air, as the vulture is literally flying in open air.

I didn't say TK would be useless. I said it would be far less effective dependent upon the mechanics. I doubt he can teleport, use TK, and plant mines all at once. He has to pick one.

I also feel summoning other assassins would be bad for him, in particular if they cannot teleport. For once they die the AP gap will widen and Nephthys will be able to control their bodies as she pleases. They will protect her with their life until their body is literally nothing. She also has a 2x Ap advantage, so incap seems to be the best method, since repeated attacks are unlikely to land on such a mobile opponent.

Daud hasn't dealt with immortal birds that literally won't sto coming at him. Daud has almost zero answers to the birds, and they will be constantly occupying him, obstructing his field of view, and seeking to do damage in general. There would be hundreds upon hundreds of vultures about, Daud would find it immensely difficult to even see Nephthys, let alone get past the bird swarm.

Essentially, Daud cannot actually teleport to Nephthys because she's flying in the open air, which you've literally said he cannot teleport to. Daud doesn't have enough ways to dealing with the birds and doesn't seem to have a reliable way of putting Nephthys down that she can't see coming. His teleportation might be instant, but what comes after isn't. Spawning a bird to protect herself or simply flying even higher are all things she can do when he goes to attack her out of a teleport (which, again, he can't teleport into open air).
 
Before i respond to this let me make one thing very clear: He CAN teleport to PEOPLE who are in open air, so he CAN teleport to Nep and her vultures.
 
I would appreciate if this fact is acknowledged before i continue as the majority of the argument for Nep is based on this misconception
 
>If he can't teleport into open air the how is he going to reach her at all? You're saying he can use the birds as footstools but the birds will be flying away from Nephthys and towards him at that moment, and she can fly whenever she desires. She has the mobility advantage, not Daud.

He's not teleporting to open air, he's teleporting to Nep and her vultures. She and the vultures will not be flying away in stopped time, they will be stationary.

>It's also not as though she'll just be sitting still. She'll be flying through the air, releasing her birds. If Daud can't teleport into open air, then he literally cannot reach her. Teleporting atop a vulture is still teleporting into open air, as the vulture is literally flying in open air.

Except when time is stopped she will be sitting still, she has no listed resistance to timestop so she's not going to be going anywhere.

>I didn't say TK would be useless. I said it would be far less effective dependent upon the mechanics. I doubt he can teleport, use TK, and plant mines all at once. He has to pick one.

He can teleport and plant mines simultaneously yes.

>I also feel summoning other assassins would be bad for him, in particular if they cannot teleport. For once they die the AP gap will widen and Nephthys will be able to control their bodies as she pleases. They will protect her with their life until their body is literally nothing. She also has a 2x Ap advantage, so incap seems to be the best method, since repeated attacks are unlikely to land on such a mobile opponent.

All of his assassins have Daud's powers, including teleportation and TK. A knife through the torso and their bodies WILL be nothing as they will be reduced to ash, and Daud has no qualms about killing his own men if they turn against him as he has done so before. As for mobility, timestop takes care of that, and a 2x dura advantage means nothing when all of Daud's arsenal are piercing weapons or weapons that ignore conventional durbaility.

>Daud hasn't dealt with immortal birds that literally won't sto coming at him. Daud has almost zero answers to the birds, and they will be constantly occupying him, obstructing his field of view, and seeking to do damage in general. There would be hundreds upon hundreds of vultures about, Daud would find it immensely difficult to even see Nephthys, let alone get past the bird swarm.

Correct, but he has dealt with immortal dogs who function nearly identically. His answer to the birds is timestopping, teleporting past them using their bodies as a footstool, and then teleporting to Nep and killing her, or just having assassins use TK to move the birds away while Daud goes for Nep.

>Essentially, Daud cannot actually teleport to Nephthys because she's flying in the open air, which you've literally said he cannot teleport to. Daud doesn't have enough ways to dealing with the birds and doesn't seem to have a reliable way of putting Nephthys down that she can't see coming. His teleportation might be instant, but what comes after isn't. Spawning a bird to protect herself or simply flying even higher are all things she can do when he goes to attack her out of a teleport (which, again, he can't teleport into open air).

Yes, Daud can teleport to her. Please do explain how she's going to see anything Daud has coming while time is stopped. Please tell me how she's going to be able to escape him when time is stopped. He canonically spams his time stopping teleportation.
 
TLDR; Nep's mobility via flight is rendered useless by Daud's ability to stop time while teleporting and tendency to spam said ability, he can teleport to her directly if she is suspended in mid-air and can teleport to and then past the vultures if they try to attack him, TK from both himself and his assassins as well as their own ability to teleport make the vultures nothing but minor annoyances, his piercing weapons make her 2x dura advantage pretty much meaningless, and at the off chance that Daud's men do manage to get killed somehow (Despite them being world-class assassins in their own right) he is able to easily dispose of them beyond their ability to fight anymore via Shadow Kill.
 
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