Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken (LN) General Tier upgrade to High 7-A

[NeoSuperior]

Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken (LN) gets an upgrade though this change only affects 3 character profiles currently due to the WN/LN seperation (though the others should get their LN profiles sooner or later too). This Tier upgrade does not affect the Web Novel version in any way. Before the WN/LN split happened (and even now) most characters were stuck at the same Low 7-B AP despite obvious differences in power, all due to a lack of concrete feats. Now there it seems that the AP range can be widened a bit.

So the storm pic here shows the attack called "Death Storm" by Ranga. When Ranga still had a WN/LN composite profile, a calc was appearently done, which resulted in this AoE attack to be rated as High 7-A, according to Celestial Pegasus, but it seemed to be an attack that could only be used a single time before running out of magical energy and it was a dispersed AoE attack against red-shirt Orcs, so it was only kept as a seperate attack.

Now however there is more concrete proof of a High 7-A feat from the "Veldora's Slime Observation Journal": Orc Disaster Geld managed to tank a High 7-A attack that has been concentrated on a single target and that was only after already tanking a barrage of other attacks. It's the same Death Storm attack, just a "pin-pointed" single-target version of it, hence it's a feat of withstanding a High 7-A attack. It should be noted that Orc Disaster Geld doesn't have any known resistance against electricity or lightning either, so its not due to a hax or anything like that. In addition, this also proves that Ranga was able to use that attack twice rather than once.

How should characters scale based on that? I don't know. The reasoning for the keys in the WN is not valid in the LN version anymore. So I'd like your input on this.

If High 7-A is the current maximum, then Low 7-C would be the current minimum, at least for A ranks, since the lowest known requirement to be rated "A-Rank" seems to be the capability to destroy a small tow. Though I'd like your input on that as well since it's not specified concretly whether or not that requirement includes characters and monsters with "A-Minus" rank.

Now for the new keys, let's keep them down at 1 for Rimuru for now, unless there is some major reason given to divide it into seperate keys, since the release for LN vol. 5 is not far off. Charybdis being only 1 key is a given. Shizue should still be divided into "current" and "peak" keys, since her role is pretty much finished in the story, at most there will be some revisions, but likely no new content in regards to her.

Now for my personal estimations:

Charybdis should completely scale up to High 7-A, but not sure about whether or not it deserves a further "at least High 7-A" attached to it. While it has immense energy reserves and durability it couldn't manage to kill even a single fodder among the Tempest-Dwargon alliance that attacked it.

Rimuru should scale up to either High 7-A or 7-A before eating Geld, but definitly High 7-A afterwards. That is because compared to Ifrit, a "Special A Rank" Calamity-Threat, Orc Disaster Geld got twice the mount of magical energy, which makes him a Special A too. On the other hand Rimuru also got a higher amount of magical energy compared to Ifrit, though it's not specified by how much, but Orc Disaster Geld has less than twice of Rimuru's energy, so Rimuru is a safe lock for 7-A tier at the minimum even before eating Geld and pretty much guaranteed for High 7-A afterwards. Though since Rimuru is superior to Ranga, he might be High 7-A even before that. I am not sure. Tell me what you think.

Shizue, I have no idea how to evaluate her, maybe we could seperate her tiers between "base" and "when using Ifrit". I can't help but think that considering how she was unable to even damage a Dragon without Ifrit being unleashed at the end of her peak period. With Ifrit it'd scale to 7-A though for the same reason as Rimuru.

 

[Elizhaa]

I think scaling the main characters comparable or stronger to Ranga to be High 7-A is fine.

Here the calculation link: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...aters,_Fire,_and_a_Storm#WikiaArticleComments

I think out of prime Shizue would be at least 7-A. Ranga's feat is still baseline High 7-A at 1.4 gigatons.

Tier	Level	Energy in Conventional Terms	Energy in Tonnes of TNT Equivalent	Energy in Joules	High End to Low End ratio
High 7-A	Large Mountain	1 Gigaton to 4.3 Gigatons	109 to 4.3x109	4.184x1018 to 1.79912x1019	4.3x

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Death storm was actually calc from the anime not manga, but not important.

We shouldn't make things complicated, and just give Rimuru 1 key, when vol 5 is out we will just name this key pre-harvest festival or something.

As for shizue i guess she should be Low 7-C in base, 7-A with ifrit.

Thinking about it, Hakurou was able to cut off geld's head so while inferior he should scale, and likewise the other kijin to an extent, and likewise ranga, they are all over A rank after all so it makes sense.

 

[NeoSuperior]

I mean there was a passage in Veldora's Slime observation Journal where it was stated that unlike the other Kijin, Hakurou would actually qualify for a "Special A" or "calamity-level" which puts him on the level of Ifrit and Orc Disaster. Conveniently also mentions that Hakurou lacks hacks to win against either of them though, though against Ifrit it isn't lack of non-physical interaction, since he DOES possess that among his Art/Aura abilities.

Shizu should be higher than Low 7-C though because she was still an "A-Plus" adventurer. In anime EP24 Shizu did not "release" Ifrit in her fight against unnamed Diablo, but rather only used her own skills which included fire attacks. "Releasing Ifrit" was what she was about to do against the Greater/Arch-Demon when she was about to take off her mask before unnamed Diablo interfered. The issue is that in the LN version, Shizu is the ONLY character we know to be at A-Plus rank. Everyone else is A-Minus-Rank, A-Rank, "above A-Rank", "surpasses A-Rank", "transcends A-Rank" and those confirmed to be truly above A-Rank are "Special A-Rank".

Though speaking of which, do we include A-Minus into the Low 7-C requirement for A-Ranks or not?

And what about Charybdis? High 7-A or At Least High 7-A? It failed to kill even a single attacker, but it's still considered to be an S-Rank (Disaster) in terms of power level, only downgraded due to lack of intelligence. And if we only have one key for Rimuru then should he scale to that? Since it includes the power Rimuru gained from consuming Charybdis core?

But can we take the "Special A" (Calamity) ranking as a base measure for 7-A and Orc Disaster Geld

So for now:

• Rimuru(LN): High 7-A (or At Least High 7-A?)
• Shizu(LN): retirement: Low 7-C/7-C/High 7-C |peak: 7-C/High 7-C/Low 7-B base, 7-A with Ifrit
• Charybdis: High 7-A (or At Least High 7-A?)

And for future reference:

• Ranga(LN): 7-B/7-A/At Least 7-A, High 7-A with Death Storm (or High 7-A?)
• Benimaru(LN): Should scales to Ranga due to this
• Hakurou(LN): 7-A/At Least 7-A (is considered Special A in terms of actual battlepower, but lacks hacks to kill the likes of Ifrit or Orc Disaster)

What should we go with here?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well what the observation journal said was that hakurou's skill is what places him as the strongest kijin. I remember something about hakurou having the lowest magicules among the kijin but makes up for it due to skill or something like that.

The ranks are looking pretty bs to me honestly, Ifrit is well past A rank, when Rimuru absorbed him he also was, yet Hakurou who was A- at the time could cut off Rimuru's arm. I mean even Rimuru said basically just having a certain rank doesn't mean you are that powerful prime example being Gelmud. You need to know how to use your magicules, then there is also the fact that weapons play apart in raising your rank as well. So we have to be careful in assigning tiers based solely on ranks i think.

As i said no idea what to do with A-.

Charybdhis is said to be the same rank as demon lords, but honestly that seems due to it's ability than it's power, though it's scales could still rekt Shion and co so it would scale to them, probably should stil scale to Rimuru so High 7-A i think.

Really, all we get are statements about being well past A rank, surpassing A rank, and special A rank is only brought up with Arc Demons and stuff.

Don't really understand your Shizue rating, it's Shizue who is past her peak who performed the Low 7-B feat of creating a storm.

Think Benimaru and co should be At least 7-A, for being around Ifrit's level who is 2x weaker than the orc lord.

Hakurou should probably just either be At least 7-A, or straight up High 7-A, for being said to be the strongest kijin, and capable of decapitating Geld, but obviously Geld is still stronger.

Ranga is At least 7-A scaling to the kijin, High 7-A with Death Storm.

Basically i think we take all those statements of being "over A rank", "surpasses A rank" etc and put them around the same level which is At least 7-A, and put Special A rank as High 7-A.

Just plain A rank is Low 7-C, A-minus, no clue, should just be unknown.

 

[NeoSuperior]

Ifrit is Special A as well.

And based on combined information from Veldora's Diary and the LN:

Benimaru > Shion = Sufia = Alvis = Phobio > Ifrit

Shuna mentioned that "only Benimaru is above Shion" when they had the encounter with the Beastkingdom Envoy, but it's unclear if that means that both of them surpassed Hakurou or if he was excluded from the evaluation, or if the evaluation was made under different standards than the one made by Veldora and Ifrit, like including hax into the assessment. Because it would make a mess of everything to rise the hurdle again, let's just assume that it's not effective combat power.

So maybe "At Least 7-A" for Benimaru and Shion and "7-A" for Souei, but I obviously won't even bother even to check anything for the non-combatants Shuna or Kurobee (though Shuna gets to fight a bit in LN vol. 6, from what I heard).

• Hakurou = High 7-A
• Ranga = At Least 7-A, High 7-A with Death Storm
• Benimaru = At Least 7-A
• Shion = At Least 7-A
• Souei = 7-A

For A ranks, how about this? Actual known classifications with "A" in them are:

• A-Minus
• A ("Hazard")
• A-Plus
• Special A ("Calamity")

Since A-Plus exists but doesn't have its own threat-level-designation despite being supposedly betwen two ranks, I think that indicates that A-Minus and A-Plus are both part of the "Hazard" threat-level-designation. So I'd argue based on this, A-Minus should be included.

But if we take 7-A as the baseline for Special A, then the problem remains that there are still 4 ranks but 3 classifications. So I thought of the following:

• Low 7-C
  • A-Minus
  • B-Plus with high technique, notable equipment, or notable hax
• 7-C
  • A-Rank
  • A-Minus with high technique, notable equipment, or notable hax
• High 7-C
  • A-Plus
  • "Above A rank" etc.
  • A Rank with high technique, notable equipment, or notable hax
• 7-B
  • A-Plus with high technique, notable equipment, or notable hax
  • "Above A rank" etc. with high technique, notable equipment, or notable hax
• 7-A
  • Special A baseline
  • Scales to/Surpasses something on 7-A level"
  • Scales to Ifrit
• At Least 7-A
  • Surpasses Ifrit (since Ifrit is still in the upper half of 7-A since Geld is only "almost" twice as strong, which puts Ifrit at 600+ Megatons)
  • Scales to/Surpasses Phobio/Alva/Sufia
• High 7-A
  • Scales to Orc Disaster Geld
  • Scales to Death Storm
  • Scales to Rimuru
  • Scales to Charybdis

That's it for now. Any objections to do it like that?

Using Death Storm as a baseline Carrion in Beastform (becomes 3x stronger) would not quite make it to 6-C but he could probably be "At Least High 7-A" if he got a profile. But that one can wait, since he'll get his "fight" VS Milim in vol. 5. (or the manga in the coming months). Have to wait and see what feats might be shown from that.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

You know at this point, being above A rank as Ifrit has been repeatedly stated along with other ppl like Ranga, i think it's pretty clear they are all Special A rank, just not on the same level as ppl like Geld.

Like seriously we have several ppl who are over A rank, then we have Shizue at A+, and freaking Special A for Ifrit, but at other times just being said to be over A rank, maybe we should consider them all the same. Fuze really has overcomplicated this rank stuff in the ln.

You can't just put a rating on something just because it's in between another one, i object to ratings in between Low 7-C and 7-A.

Being above Low 7-C, should only give an At least Low 7-C rating. There are large gaps between tiers, see our Attack Potency page, you can't just jump tiers for arbitrary reasons.

I am still leaning on putting Benimaru and co at At least 7-A, Rimuru, Geld etc at High 7-A, A rank at Low 7-C, and A minus at Unknow since we have no idea how well an A minus compares to an A rank.

 

[NeoSuperior]

I think Special A is still above A-Plus due to Shizu being unable to do any damage to a Special A Dragon unless she fully releases Ifrit.

And well... Rimuru was a mutated Slime at A rank from the get go. After being named by Veldora he one-shotted a like-wise mutated A rank Tempest Serpent with a single water blade. Enourmous difference in power levels isn't exactly anything new, but TenSura got a lot of hax too, which are hard to distinguish from AP calculation. For example Geld, sho survived the concentrated Death Storm, would have lost to Great Sage's Flare Circle AP-wise, but he gained a last-second Diabolus-Ex-Machina hax that saved him from it. Or the issue of Hakurou who is one of the best individuals in terms of techniques, but against pure power and hax it's just not enough.

The fact that things get retconned at some points doesn't really help either...

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

You remember where it says Shizue is A+ when retired? In her prime i remember, retired i don't.

This is a mess then, A+>A, over A>A, A+?over A?. A+ isn't Special A, but it's stronger than A, over A is stronger than A so is A+=over A? I think that's a fair reasonable assumption no?

If so we put A at Low 7-C, A+, and over A at 7-A, and Special A at High 7-A.

But then again Ifrit is Special A but at the same time is weaker than Geld who is also Special A thus is High 7-A, and that's where the 7-A scaling is from cause Ifrit is 2x weaker than Geld, if Ifrit is above A+ and over A then Benimaru and co can't scale to 7-A cause they aren't Special A, they are only over A and should just be At least Low 7-C.

But there being such a large difference between Benimaru and co and Haukrou who would be High 7-A via harming Geld is just weird, but Shizue being on the same level as Ifrit without fusing with Ifrit is just even more weird seeing as she couldn't harm a Special A without Ifrit, and she was an A+.

This is a colossal mess.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

And again Rimuru who absorbed Ifrit who is Special A thus he is Special A, got his arm cut off by a mere A minus, yet Shizue who is A+ couldn't do anything to Special A.

Like seriously ranks are complete bs. Hakurou doing anything to Rimuru has to be taken as an outlier is how i see this.

Rimuru said Benimaru is well past A rank but isn't on Ifrit's level, so clearly Special A>over A rank, transcend A rank etc etc. And Special A is also stronger A+ since Shizue couldn't do anything to a Special A. Rimuru also didn't think Ranga could beat the sky dragon which is Special A.

So here is my final thoughts, everyone who is A+, over A rank etc should be At least Low 7-C for being far stronger than A rank. Shizue with Ifrit should be At least 7-A for being 2x weaker than Geld, Geld, Rimuru etc should be High 7-A. A minus should remain unknown cause we don't know how it relates to A rank.

That's the only way i see of making sense of this.

 

[NeoSuperior]

"Above A Rank" is a vague statement. It has previously been refering to individuals that are "high among regular A ranks", likely to individuals who are A-Plus too, as well as to Special A Ranks (e.g. Ifrit and Ramiris' Magisteel Golem). So how about we just low-ball all that stuff to just "A-Rank", unless there is a legitimate reason to scale them to a particular level?

Hakurou's issue is that Rimuru was just evaluating Hakurou on first sight for the fact that the he and the others "wear stately clothes". And Rimuru is not exactly the most precise source of information regarding ranks. He had evaluated himself as B-Plus rank after he was named by Veldora... Also Hakurou is an Arts user. He is closer to a human adventurer than a monster, really. Rather Hakurou is an exception among exceptions. He trained for 300 years - 3x longer than Ogre normal lifespan which is appearently 100 years. Why don't we just leave it at that?

If you want more than that then just think of rock-paper-scissors due to affinity. Hakurou is unable to kill the Orc Disaster due to lack of AoE firepower that can kill the Orc Disaster before he can regenerate. Some Special A-level Adventurer or Otherworlder might use some magitech cannon or some super beam-producing Unique Skill to kill the Orc Disaster with it. But if he tried to use that attack on Hakurou, Hakurou would predict and dodge the trajectory of the long range attack and succeed in decapitating the Adventurer/Otherworlder who has no Regenerationn hax. See what I mean?

As for Benimaru and the others, I want to remind you that time passes in this series, in which The Kijin

1. Get more accustomed to their new bodies and Skills
2. Are trained by Hakurou
   1. As a bonus, get some training with Milim for some time as well
3. Get passively strenghtened over time due to Great Sage's soul-link network.

For example when Phobio (who is stronger than Ifrit) first came to Tempest, he was evaluated as stronger than Benimaru, but later they had a match after some time passed, and Benimaru was the victor, while Shion also scaled up to be equal to Phobio since he is said to be equal to Alvis and Sufia.

So there is no problem if we just take it as Benimaru & the others to still be weaker than Ifrit back during the Orc Disaster arc.

Since we only have one key pre-harvest festival for anyone but Shizu, it's not really a bit deal anyway.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Because above A rank is vague is precisely the issue here, lowballing to A rank unless there is proof is ok with me.

Still think it's pretty nonsensical, but ok.

Ok.

Well obviously the kijin get stronger over time, but they still aren't Special A rank, so we still can't scale them as anything higher than Low 7-C.

So what i said above about the scaling still applies here, only one who will be 7-A is Shizue with Ifrit, Rimuru and co will be High 7-A, and everyone else is Low 7-C.

Edit: Phobio is stronger than Ifrit? Interesting, still even then pre-harvest festival no one scales to him except Rimuru.

I checked he was said to be stronger thn benimaru and is sub-demon lord level, Rimuru would have had problems with him if he didn't absorb the orc lord, but yea only Rimuru scales.

 

[NeoSuperior]

Actually, that's not true. For LN vol. 3, yes, but the situation changes in LN vol. 4. Shion fights equally with Sufia who is supposedly equal to Phobio and Shion mentions Benimaru to be stronger than herself.

Moreover Benimaru beats Phobio in a spar while he is at the Beast Kingdom as an escort for the envoy. He gets beaten up by Carrion though.

Souei on the other hand falls a bit behind "in a direct confrontation". But it'd be strange if that causes him to be considered 10000 times weaker than the other two. Since Phobio, who is above Ifrit, is equal to Shion who is above Souei. But until then Souei was above Shion in terms of power, so... I don't know. He might scale to "equal to Ifrit" at least - and Souei does imply that he would still prevail in an "undirect confrontation" for what it matters.

So Benimaru and Shion "At Least 7-A" and Souei "7-A"? If Souei doesn't get that, then he'd have to be considered Unknown instead because the disperety in strength would be too great otherwise.

Here some useful references:

• Lesser Demon: B-Rank (used for B-Rank examination)
• Greater Demon: A-Minus-Rank
  • That's according to Rimuru when he is about to summon Beretta, which seems a bit strange since Veldora's Diary explicitly talks about Ifrit "transcending Greater Demons", essentially comparing A-Minus-Rank with Special A-Rank, when comparing with a regular A-Rank would be better. Though maybe that's just the "baseline" and Veldora has simply higher standards for Demons than the standards that Rimuru probably picked up from his time at Free Guild HQ. Spirits and Demons of the same "type" probably have varying strengths.
• Fuze: A-Minus-Rank
• Knight Spider: A-Minus-Rank
  • Can withstand all attacks from both Fuze and Youm's group, but would have been solo'd by Fuze in his prime
• Youm: Somewhere Between B and A-Minus-Rank
• Youm (with Tempest equipment): A-Minus-Rank
• Youm (after training and several months of combat experience against monsters): A-Rank
• Pegasus: A-Minus-Rank
• Unmounted Pegasus Knight: A-Minus-Rank
• Mounted Pegasus Knight: A-Rank

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Checked, you are correct.

Benimaru and Shion should be At least 7-A, Souei should scale too, he is weaker yea but should be relative to them, Ranga probably scales too.

Anyway I am spending too much time on this site when i have work to do. I agree with the changes, so the upgrades can be applied.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Gonna do the upgrades now since it's gonna be quick cause only a few ln profiles are on here.

 

[Dragopentling]

So what's the final decision with Shizue's tiering? Just curious.

 

[Elizhaa]

So what's the final decision with Shizue's tiering? Just curious.

Shizue Izawa (Light Novel)

 

[Dragopentling]

Ok