Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken (Light Novel) Nonexistent Stuff Revision

[Mizuki67]

So you're claiming that the Great Spirit of the Sky can also be the Great Spirit of Space? If that's your assertion, prove it.

It has already been proven multiple times in our thread. Also, this "Sky" part is probably a mistranslation according to the person who knows about slime wiki very well. You can check the raws if you want to

 

[GarrixianXD]

You don't seem to understand context.
The feat here is that Dagruel neutralizes the negative energy of the void with his positive energy.

The part you quote is said to be just the opposite version of Nihility, which has the dark attribute, and Disintegration, which has the holy attribute. Both are magic of destruction, but rely on manipulating one Great Spirit of Light and the other the Great Spirit of Darkness.

I really have no idea where you came up with the idea that Dagruel used Disintegration to nullificate Nihility magic.

The scans denoted that some kind of dark magic cast the negative energy/void, such as saying that nihility magic uses negative energy to erase things. Then it was implied that the Dark Magic that conjured the void was the "Nihilistic Parade", and was said "Disintegration" is the counterpart to the very existence of dark magic. However, I may have misunderstood the context that the Positive Energy was the same technique as the so-called "Disintegration" holy magic. However, with that aside, the fact that forbidden dark magic was mentioned, can be dispelled through holy methods, yet the thing that dissipated the void is called "positive energy", it really begs the question of whether it is holy manipulation or actually void nullification.

The non-existence of the Great Spirits that constitute all aspects of reality in the beginning, and the fact that the Subspace, which is the space between the Worlds, is void, proves that creation was built on void at the beginning of everything. Later, with the creation of the Worlds, space-time storms occurred between the Worlds that made everything BFR in the subspace. However, this still does not change that creation exists in void.

I'm yet to see a direct piece of evidence that those Great Spirits are part of the "Subspace"/void itself. I suppose something like "Great Spirits constitutes all aspects of creation, even the void itself", then it could work for considering NEP.

 

[Mizuki67]

I'm yet to see a direct piece of evidence that those Great Spirits are part of the "Subspace"/void itself. I suppose something like "Great Spirits constitutes all aspects of creation, even the void itself", then it could work for considering NEP.

There was only his consciousness or will and nothing exists. At the same time everything is also part of God's consciousness. Did you participate in our tier 0 thread ?

God created everything. Void was only borned when Omnipotent Veldanava constructed the universe. Before everything there was nothing

nothing what I said matters anymore ? You all are not trying to understand at this point

 

[The_golden_and_silver_house94]

Well if a skill is a concept ,information and a law i.e part of the voice of the world
I would say the laws of the world are both concepts and information thus veldanava created them

 

[Mizuki67]

I will repeat again
-The subspace is outside of the Great Spirit control and it has existed before Great Spirits were borned
-Veldanava (Will of God) true omnipotent form encompass all of this including the sub space. His trueform lack nothing and it is complete. All in one and one in all and exist prior to all of creation

That is all you need to understand. I honestly do not know what is so difficult given the evidence that we have already presented and our argument is clear and concise.

 

[CodeCCLL]

However, with that aside, the fact that forbidden dark magic was mentioned, can be dispelled through holy methods, yet the thing that dissipated the void is called "positive energy", it really begs the question of whether it is holy manipulation or actually void nullification.

This isn't really a question, considering Dagruel is a Demon Lord and doesn't have Holy Magic, positive energy is just the existence's energy.

You claim that Velda's God Key lacks laws. However, where is the evidence or proof that explicitly states it lacks laws?

If we have the proof needed to make this inference, we do not need a direct statement.

Velda created several laws governing existence, so how can it be said that his existence lacked such laws?

Veldanava didn't just create a few laws, the laws he created govern all existence. Everything that exists stems from these eight attributes and certain fusions of these attributes, the True Dragons known as the source of the World are embodiments of parts of these attributes, even the True Dragon Veldanava.

Velda had the ability to establish and control these laws, it implies that his power and existence were inherently tied to them

Contrary to what you says, in fiction God is generally depicted as independent of his creations. @Ultima_Reality states that he can be generous in this regard (thought Veldanava might qualify for BDE Type 1 because it preceded the attributes of space and time).

So I'm not seeing the concept of space in literal the same abstractions we are referring to.

Subspace is stated to be a space-time void, supported by the statement that it cannot be traveled with standard spatial abilities and is completely free from the constraints of time. Therefore, it is quite obvious that there was no concept of space in the beginning, but the concept of space existed together with the Great Spirit of Space. There is many proofs, such as that the World Laws that channel the space attribute include spatial abilities, so this is not even an discussion.

Is Hell filled with Magicules, or is the Hell Void itself made up of Magicules? These two cases would be different. Can you elaborate?

Hell is defined as both "bottomless darkness" and "forbidden void/emptness". It is also stated that Hell is full of magicules, and these magicules create demons (embody of darkness attributes), the same dark attributes that manipulates the void of hell. I don't think Hell is made up of magicules, but it can be said to be made up of the darkness attributes, and magicules can both create and manipulate this darkness attribute.

I mean an original creation that Velda brought into existence—something that didn’t exist before his intervention.

As I said at the beginning, we don't know this yet, but we do know that Veldanava gave up his omnipotent form and incorporated himself into creation with the True Dragon form (consist of fundamental information), and used the Great Spirit of Light to create the seven Seraphim in True Dragon form. So there is no contradiction for it to be this way, but there is no statement to support the other arguments.

Could you share the specific scan regarding the Void of the Beginning? So far, I’ve only seen scans related to Subspace, and I might have missed it.

The non-existence of the Great Spirits that constitute all aspects of reality in the beginning, and the fact that the Subspace, which is the space between the Worlds, is void, proves that creation was built on void at the beginning of everything.

The void at the beginning of everything is not something specifically mentioned in the Light Novel yet. We have proof for the existence of this void and inferences about its nature. You basically know everything you need to know, you just might not have seen some of the scans, that's all.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I’m really busy reading a few other LNs and mangas and have other plans for the weekend, so I don’t have much time to spend arguing here. For now, I’ll withdraw from this thread.

Call the staff or do whatever you like—I’m not continuing this argument further. I’ll create a separate thread regarding my disagreements and arguments in the future if this thread is accepted. That’s it.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Also I'm talking about laws of subspace

Unsure about that, because they're only mentioned once. Since the Laws of Subspace are seemingly different from Subspace.

I get your explanation but is there something proving Velda (God) will lacking information. Isn't information is a fundamental aspects in the verse.
Correct me will/fundamental existence is information itself right.

That was from the Web novel version, not the Light novel one.
Though Veldanava existed before Information in WN too, but take it as just a fun fact, since it's useless; WN Veldanava doesn't have a profile here.

In the WN, Magicules > Information [insofar as that they make up the GS of Sky which is the concept of Information that defines the world in-verse]
In the LN, Information Particles > Magicules

The only thing we have about their existence and cause is from Volume 21, and that being that they "lead to the foundation of the world", whereas "Foundation of the World" is true dragons.
If I were to guess where the narrative structure was going with this, it's probably referring to the Infinite Chain of reason stuff, in that Veldanava[God] is the source of all existence in an infinite chain of reason [as in derivation/causal derivatives, one thing leading to the birth of another].

Tho, that does remind me, I suppose there is indeed some proof that God key lacks Information. Why so? Well, as we all know, per tensura physiology, Soul -> Heart Core [Information particles] -> Ego; DLFS are beings made purely of Information particles; Michael is a DLF too.

YET Michael only returned to the All-Encompassing Completeness [God] after having not just his consciousness erased but also his Information particles disintegrated.
All this is once again supported by the fact that to "reach" God, one must be set free from all limitations/conditions/restrictions, at which point their Heart Core dissolves back into the state of Moksha[the act of dissolving back into the unity of God].
So I suppose yes, God's state is something that exists after the Heart Core has been erased.

So you're claiming that the Great Spirit of the Sky can also be the Great Spirit of Space? If that's your assertion, prove it.

You should really read the cosmology page, mate.

• Great Spirit of Space: Space(Sky) governs "isolation", that which isolates wind, and is strong against "Wind"[23].

Great Spirit of "Space" and Great Spirit of "Sky" are just alternative translations of each other[read the TL Notes at the end].

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Didn't yourself add the existence erasure for Subspace on the cosmology page remake? Or was there a misunderstanding?

The latter, most likely. I prolly missed and thus didn't account for both the BFR and EE statement together, I suppose. I'm not perfect after all, but I do apologize for the inconsistency generated by my mistake
Dino says their [his companions, like Pico] existence would be erased in subspace; but later in the same chapter[or scene], it's mentioned that it's just that subspace erases the existence from within itself via BFRing it to inside a dimension or world.

 

[Dog3352]

All this is once again supported by the fact that to "reach" God, one must be set free from all limitations/conditions/restrictions, at which point their Heart Core dissolves back into the state of Moksha[the act of dissolving back into the unity of God].

According to the concept of Moksha/Nirvana, as written in the scan itself, the person's soul still exists even if it reaches this state.
And Nirvana/Moksha is not about "returning the unity of God", just abandoning "material things" (like money) and "human pleasures" (lust, greed, etc.) and achieving a state of mind where the person disconnects from the "cycle of suffering/Death/renasciment".

And I think nothing there talks about reaching God (Veldavana) or anything like that, but rather that upon reaching this state the person reaches the "Promised Land", unless there is something to directly connect the existence of Veldavana to the Promised Land , I don't think this proves what you're trying to say.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

According to the concept of Moksha/Nirvana, as written in the scan itself, the person's soul still exists even if it reaches this state.

My man, I'm not sure if you're even understanding the whole thing correctly, but, "Heart Core" is independent of the Soul. It's the heart core that's the set of information particles, not the soul.

It doesn't matter if the Soul still exists, what matters it that to reach this state, the heart core is being dissolved.

And Nirvana/Moksha is not about "returning the unity of God", just abandoning "material things" (like money) and "human pleasures" (lust, greed, etc.) and achieving a state of mind where the person disconnects from the "cycle of suffering/Death/renasciment".

Don't confuse Moksha with Nirvana, mate. Moksha is slightly different.

Resides the but, nothing there talks about reaching God (Veldavana) or anything like that, but rather that upon reaching this state the person reaches the "Promised Land", unless there is something to directly connect the existence of Veldavana to the Promised Land , I don't think this proves what you're trying to say.

I'm not gonna be arguing about "God is Promised Land" here when I cleared those things repeatedly here.

 

[Dog3352]

My man, I'm not sure if you're even understanding the whole thing correctly, but, "Heart Core" is independent of the Soul. It's the heart core that's the set of information particles, not the soul.
Volume 11:

Right, from what I understand, the character no longer has his core, and his "soul" reaching the state of "liberation" went to the Promised Land (?).

Don't confuse Moksha with Nirvana, mate. Moksha is slightly different.

I am taking into account that 解脱 means "liberation", which is related to Buddhism, Hinduism, and other religions, it is not something that has a "greater relationship" or that speaks directly about a specific religion.

I don't even deny this "Veldavana encompasses such a thing" thing, I think the main problem in proving NEP is demonstrating that the character is non-existent.

I'm not gonna be arguing about "God is Promised Land" here when I cleared those things repeatedly here.

Unless this CRT has been accepted, it's kind of the job of the person arguing to prove things with scans, it's not like everyone who's going to get into this CRT has read this other CRT.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Right, from what I understand, the character no longer has his core, and his "soul" reaching the state of "liberation" went to the Promised Land (?).

what??
No....
Basically, a Saint [someone who has achieved "Enlightenment"] and freed himself of all sins/desires will not go into the Samsara[the Buddhist cycle of reincarnation] upon soul death[not physical death cuz well, spiritual lifeform stuff], and would instead be free from all restrictions/limitations and achieve Nirvana-after-death/Moksha, that is, Liberation.

The actual individual is the heart core [which constitutes of one's information about oneself in the world, including their personality and stuff], and the soul and all other things are merely something like protective layers covering it. In context, when Carrera defeated Kondo and absorbed his Soul, she couldn't do anything to his heart core, because the heart core[conceptual self per spiritual lifeform physiology page] of a person who has fulfilled the above mentioned requirements cannot be "bound" to something, it would instead just dissolve back into its source[God].

I am taking into account that 解脱 means "liberation", which is related to Buddhism, Hinduism, and other religions, it is not something that has a "greater relationship" or that speaks directly about a specific religion.

Rather then reading the possible translators for it, it would be better to read the entire Japanese/Chinese Wikipedia page dedicated to that single world.

I don't even deny this "Veldavana encompasses such a thing" thing, I think the main problem in proving NEP is demonstrating that the character is non-existent.

Michael, too, was reduced to God/the all-encompassing completeness, but only after having his ego and body erased, so it's not a problem, tho. There is no fundamental aspect beyond the Ego and Heart Core in tensura, so the only thing that comes after its erasure is nonexistence. That is made clear by this statement from veldora:

If he simply burst out in spirit form, his essence would scatter to the winds like the magic itself, erasing his very existence. This would result in the birth of a new storm dragon, somehow, somewhere—I didn’t care about the details by this point. But to sum up, maybe he could escape, but if he did, he’d wind up being something else. It wouldn’t matter to him.
{Note: a True Dragon only gets reborn after having their heart core destroyed, as per their profile pages says}

So much for that. But what if I used Predator to consume Veldora himself? I could either analyze him inside my stomach, or isolate him and annul the effect of Unlimited Imprisonment, and he’d be out. Would that work?

Received: It is possible to store the target Veldora in your stomach via the unique skill Predator.

Really…? In that case, if I could convince him of it, we could get going. If I couldn’t, he’d have another century of isolation before he was reduced to nonexistence. So I spent a few moments explaining the Predator skill to Veldora, and what I wanted to do with it. It’d be impossible from the get-go without the Sage’s help, but…

Unless this CRT has been accepted, it's kind of the job of the person arguing to prove things with scans, it's not like everyone who's going to get into this CRT has read this other CRT.

That's only for things like tiers and such, I don't see a problem with linking another CRT that has answered the counter-arguments being argued in another thread since it makes things less lengthy and time-taking, as well as efficient. There's no need to or point in repeating the same arguments again and again.

 

[Dog3352]

Rather then reading the possible translators for it, it would be better to read the entire Japanese/Chinese Wikipedia page dedicated to that single world.

The wiki page you sent talks about the concept of "liberation" in more than one religion, and how these concepts can be different depending on the religion.

I don't know if the rest is enough to prove the NEP, that depends on the admins.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

I'm not talking about that part, I was talking about the Vega incident falling into Subspace. But apparently I remembered the incident wrong. Vega, who fell into Subspace, was not erased by Subspace, he was trying to kill himself.

probably mixing it up with this

 

[Lycoris4812]

Bumb, almost forgot about this.

 

[Lycoris4812]

Bumb

 

[Lycoris4812]

Bumbing for nothing.

 

[CodeCCLL]

I took a break from powercaling until the next summer (IRL stuff...), I only look at notifications for few minutes in a day.

I will not disturb the staff for this thread, but if this thread is accepted at some point, please do not let anyone else try to apply the changes and leave it to me, I will apply it within a few days at the worst.

 

[Lycoris4812]

Bumb

 

[CodeCCLL]

Bump

 

[Sebas-S.P-san]

Oh, I didn't remember this thread, well, I'll just say one thing.

Bump