Tekken CRT Part 1: speed and weight

[BlackDarkness679]

After quite a long time trying to find the moment to do a CRT, its finally happening, from the title it might give you a hint what this is about, but if you dont know, then we are gonna talk about this immediately

SPEED

New calcs

So currently the verse speed wise is scaled to Gun Jack reacting to a MHS+ satellite laser, as well as Kazuya shooting his beam at the same satellite at Sub-Relativistic speeds and others able to react to his beam, but i found out in Tekken 7 story mode there is a moment where we are given the distance at which the said satellite is at and thanks to it we are given the following values for both:

Tekken: Kazuya laser speed

vsbattles.fandom.com

Tekken: Gun Jack satellite laser speed

vsbattles.fandom.com

In a future CRT i will make a tier list of the verse, which will handle what stats each character will get more accurately, but for the moment, those scaling to MHS+ get Sub-Relativistic+ and those who scale to Sub-Relativistic get Relativistic, the god tiers from the latter feat will go as far as into FTL from the multiplier they have, making them nearly x2 FTL

Light reactions

On top of this, there are also two instances of light reactions in the series, one of them is Yoshimitsu reacting to a laser beam from Bryan in the tag 2 ending, which was accepted in the past when there was a calc for it done, but the calc was rejected eventually, yet we left the feat and the beam itself without doing anything with it, so for Bryan at least via the weapon he can shoot the said laser beam with should give him a rating as attack speed only, in case there is skepticism for solid rating on it, a likely/possibly should we good enough as well, whichever sounds better

Yoshi reacts to said beam, but as we dont have means to really calc it, i will leave that as a supporting feat for those in his league and above only

This one would fall in the same category as the previous one, as attack speed only and supporting feat, that being Claudio being able to fire an arrow of light, here can be found reasons for it being light, same deal as with Bryan on the rating as well, also worth pointing, in Tekken 7 Heihachi has to dodge his beams he fires in the the story mode, now it is dependent on the player if they have the reflexes to do it, but the fight starts with Claudio firing that and the old man goes unscratched from the fight and wins it easily, so the possibility of him dodging it isnt far fetched, as Yoshimitsu instance shows he is capable with Bryan and the feats they scale to are pretty done by them most of the time without effort

Do to this i propose those in the league of the Mishimas and above should receive a likely higher among their new ratings given most of their stuff is either casual or when they aint really trying

Lifting

Next thing is to assign new ratings for lifting as well

First one is Marduk able to lift a car over his head and throw it a decent distance, this scales to anyone in his league or above, those who dont scale though (which will be adressed far better on the tier lists CRT in the future) are: Asuka, Josie, Lili, Lucky Chloe and Forest Law

This would be Class 5 from the chart of the page for lifting

Next one is Panda preventing the Monster Mokujin from crushing Xiaoyu and Alisa, this would scale to anyone comparable to those scaling to the bears and other in their league and above, those who arent getting the rating from this are: Alisa, Anna, Nina, Jinpachi (except his 3rd key), Eliza, Marshall Law, Ogre, Kazumi and Jack

By its sheer size and asking someone on it as well, Class K was what it would be falling under, i think its a fair estimate, but if there are suggestion for a better one to be agreed i am waiting on those

This is all for now and one of the couple future CRTs to be made for the series

 

[SirAlex09]

Blood Vengeance isn't canon to the main Tekken verse

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Its half canon for your info and tekken 7 acknowledges it in lore too existing, let alone is accepted for a long time here

If you dont have anything related to the purpose of this thread, dont reply then please

 

[SamanPatou]

The first part should be fine, as the calc got accepted.

About the reactions, does Bryan's laser qualify as a real/reliable laser according to the rules?

I'm also a little iffy about Claudio's arrow, it's called light and comes from a spirit associated with a star, but with that just it doesn't really prove it's actual light, instead of some blue energy bestowed upon him. Even by wiki standards, with just that the requirements aren't met.

Lifting should be fine, throwing a car might be higher or still in Class 5, I'm not sure, by throwing something requires more strength than just lifting it.
I'm not sure about which class fits the Mokujin monster best, I'm not knowledgeable enough, but the feat should be fine and scaling will be discussed more deeply in the next thread, as you say Also, based turkish Tekken.

I feel a blog should be made to collect evidences and assorted stuff that solidifies both TTT2 and BV as canon (or halff-canon or whatever), it would be really useful and would also help everytime this problem comes up.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

The first part should be fine, as the calc got accepted.

Cool

About the reactions, does Bryan's laser qualify as a real/reliable laser according to the rules?

It reflects on yoshimitsu sword, it burns on contact when cutting, there are instances where rainbow colors are seen from the len of the weapon he uses and the mentioned weapon it cones from, it got accepted last time, the calc with it got rejected only, cuz it wasnt possible to get a value from it

I'm also a little iffy about Claudio's arrow, it's called light and comes from a spirit associated with a star, but with that just it doesn't really prove it's actual light, instead of some blue energy bestowed upon him. Even by wiki standards, with just that the requirements aren't met.

It says it glows as blue flames, so it cant be energy, he also himself calls it light and he should know this better then anyone, plus its the power of sirius which from research i got was suppose to be literal in accordance to the star

Lifting should be fine, throwing a car might be higher or still in Class 5, I'm not sure, by throwing something requires more strength than just lifting it.

Thought the same about being higher, but apparently he had to throw it more far then he shown there, as such it doesnt change anything significantly with what we got on that

I'm not sure about which class fits the Mokujin monster best, I'm not knowledgeable enough, but the feat should be fine and scaling will be discussed more deeply in the next thread, as you say Also, based turkish Tekken.

Initially he was thought to be mountain sized but then that fell off cuz we can just tell by the eye he isnt that tall nor we got anything to support that, so myeah

I feel a blog should be made to collect evidences and assorted stuff that solidifies both TTT2 and BV as canon (or halff-canon or whatever), it would be really useful and would also help everytime this problem comes up.

Not a bad idea, will do so in the future at some point, shouldnt take too long either actually, only need free time myself for that

 

[SamanPatou]

It reflects on yoshimitsu sword, it burns on contact when cutting, there are instances where rainbow colors are seen from the len of the weapon he uses and the mentioned weapon it cones from, it got accepted last time, the calc with it got rejected only, cuz it wasnt possible to get a value from it.

It should be ok, then.

It says it glows as blue flames, so it cant be energy, he also himself calls it light and he should know this better then anyone, plus its the power of sirius which from research i got was suppose to be literal in accordance to the star.

It being blue flames isn't a good evidence either, as they aren't natural light. Drawing power from a spirit that is associated with a star isn't proof that Claudio's arms and attacks are the same light generated by it.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Blue flames means it burns, instead of exploding or anything else, Claudio also calls it light and the game names it something that by definition suggests that highly as well

 

[SirAlex09]

Its half canon for your info and tekken 7 acknowledges it in lore too existing, let alone is accepted for a long time here

If you dont have anything related to the purpose of this thread, dont reply then please

Based on the threads I looked up , only certain feats were accepted as long as they don't contradict the main story. In each case you had to prove the canocity of that feat. There wasn't a general acceptance.
I quote the following from Ant "Okay. As long as it is officially part of the main canon that should be fine."
And you " After Blood Vengeance will be accepted to be used as well for the series, we gotta see what events of the movie should we look for potential upgrades and what we will exclude and falls under contradictory things around "

--> Tekken 6 Campaign dialogue :

• Ling Xiaoyu: Are you looking for Jin?
• Alisa Bosconovitch: You are acquainted with Jin Kazama? May I request any information you possess that concerns him?
• Ling Xiaoyu: Stopping Jin is my responsibility. I won't let anyone stand in my way!

They clearly meet for the first time so the following scene didn't happen, where Panda saved them


Backed up by the following:

"Not everything. But a little. Like half canon RT@minguilon is tekken blood vengeance canon? " -- Harada

Hence the Moukojinfeat is probably some of the non canon parts (if it isn't referenced in Tekken 7.)

Other than that I agree with everything else

 

[BlackDarkness679]

This isnt the thread for that so refrain from keep bringing it up, its not about the movie here

Also the mishima fight 3 way (before starting) that goes into the final fights is shown during the flashbacks of 7 story, let alone 6 came 2 years before the movie so ofc the alisa and xiaoyu instances in the game is like that, dmc also has a half canon thing with things not lining up with the games, yet its counted entirely as its counted to the canon still

Also your cited comments of me is outdated as i changed my view from then

 

[SirAlex09]

This isnt the thread for that so refrain from keep bringing it up, its not about the movie here

It's about the feat. You can't just change Wiki rules or what was agreed on in previous thread concerning what will be accepted and what not.

Also your cited comments of me is outdated as i changed my view from then

Didn't know that your view is more important than the thread that literally "partially" accepted the movie. You made that CRT, argued that certain movie parts should be accepted and Ant gave his okay on the condition that it doesn't contradict the main story which is clearly the case in the panda case.

Extended Prove: Xiayou was happy to hear that Heihachi was alive , Moukojin awakened in response to Jin's action to stop him and was a good guy. Both according to the Tekken 6 prologue.
In that particular scene in the movie Xiayou and Heihachi are enemies and Moukojin awakened through Heihachi's action. So that scene certainly couldn't have happened and shouldn't be used.

And again I am not arguing about the whole movie but about specific scenes which are as proven above non canon and can't be used therefor.


And concerning DMC : Staff literally explained to you that they don't accept everything but certain parts. But this isn't the topic of this CRT.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

It's about the feat. You can't just change Wiki rules or what was agreed on in previous thread concerning what will be accepted and what not.

I didnt change anything like you assume, also back then was mostly cuz Harada said it is half canon

Didn't know that your view is more important than the thread that literally "partially" accepted the movie. You made that CRT, argued that certain movie parts should be accepted and Ant gave his okay on the condition that it doesn't contradict the main story which is clearly the case in the panda case.

Dont twist his words, he didnt say that, he said like you quoted "as long as it is officially part of the main canon", so stop with that, also others which have half canon status as well use from them all, like the previous example having a major character which dies but later you see him again and claiming they didnt see each other before

Extended Prove: Xiayou was happy to hear that Heihachi was alive , Moukojin awakened in response to Jin's action to stop him and was a good guy. Both according to the Tekken 6 prologue.
In that particular scene in the movie Xiayou and Heihachi are enemies and Moukojin awakened through Heihachi's action. So that scene certainly couldn't have happened and shouldn't be used.

Tekken 6 came few years before the movie....by then they didnt think of the movie or such, tekken 7, the most current canon which changed from the lore couple of things came and counted it in the canon with quite some stuff from there including it in the canon

And again I am not arguing about the whole movie but about specific scenes which are as proven above non canon and can't be used therefor.

Except elements from the fight are shown to be a thing in canon, also tag 2 shows in endings of the three and even Miharu they know each other, so your thing alisa and xiaoyu dont know each other is false

And concerning DMC : Staff literally explained to you that they don't accept everything but certain parts. But this isn't the topic of this CRT.

I explained earlier about this so your point falls flat

And for the 3rd damn time, this isnt the thread about it, this isnt about canonicity of BV, comprehend that, this is about speed and lifting, not the place to discuss that

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Also spell the name correct, its mokujin, not moukojin, also its not the one from the games, its a different one and there a bunch of them too

 

[SirAlex09]

I didnt change anything like you assume, also back then was mostly cuz Harada said it is half canon

Dont twist his words, he didnt say that, he said like you quoted "as long as it is officially part of the main canon", so stop with that, also others which have half canon status as well use from them all, like the previous example having a major character which dies but later you see him again and claiming they didnt see each other before

Tekken 6 came few years before the movie....by then they didnt think of the movie or such, tekken 7, the most current canon which changed from the lore couple of things came and counted it in the canon with quite some stuff from there including it in the canon

Except elements from the fight are shown to be a thing in canon, also tag 2 shows in endings of the three and even Miharu they know each other, so your thing alisa and xiaoyu dont know each other is false

I explained earlier about this so your point falls flat

And for the 3rd damn time, this isnt the thread about it, this isnt about canonicity of BV, comprehend that, this is about speed and lifting, not the place to discuss that

A lot of senseless blablabla and not a single argument. Give me the exact thread with the quotes from Staff where it was decided that all of TT1 and 2 and BV is allowed to be used. If you can't then this senseless paragraphs are worthless. If you can, I am totally fine with your upgrade and I will happily support you.

Also please learn to structure your sentences. Thanks

 

[SirAlex09]

Also spell the name correct,

Funny that this comes from someone who has tons of spelling mistakes in his paragraphs.

And for the 3rd damn time, this isnt the thread about it, this isnt about canonicity of BV, comprehend that, this is about speed and lifting, not the place to discuss that

Sorry that you had to leave your echochamber considering the fact that you insulted everyone who had a different opinion on previous threads

 

[BlackDarkness679]

A lot of senseless blablabla and not a single argument. Give me the exact thread with the quotes from Staff where it was decided that all of TT1 and 2 and BV is allowed to be used. If you can't then this senseless paragraphs are worthless. If you can, I am totally fine with your upgrade and I will happily support you.

So basically you just ignore my words and come here to just bring irrelevant shit...

Also please learn to structure your sentences. Thanks

Nothing in my sentences is disorganized or the like for you to claim this and it comes off as being a smart ass with your next comments

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Funny that this comes from someone who has tons of spelling mistakes in his paragraphs.

1) what i said earlier

2)i got no mistakes as such and you unable to spell a name you see in front of you written tells a lot

3)english isnt my native language and im not from an english speaking country, so keep your retorts on you

Sorry that you had to leave your echochamber considering the fact that you insulted everyone who had a different opinion on previous threads

If you talk of the one you pulled the quotes from, its an old thread and different times and irrelevant for this, all this thread comments nearly filled by you with that topic

Drop it already

 

[SirAlex09]

1) what i said earlier

2)i got no mistakes as such and you unable to spell a name you see in front of you written tells a lot

3)english isnt my native language and im not from an english speaking country, so keep your retorts on you

If you talk of the one you pulled the quotes, from, its an old thread and different times and irrelevant for this, all this thread comments nearly filled by you with that topic

Drop it already

HAHAHAHAHH It's funny how you simply ignore my request below. I know you can't because I have the exact quotes and context

A lot of senseless blablabla and not a single argument. Give me the exact thread with the quotes from Staff where it was decided that all of TT1 and 2 and BV is allowed to be used. If you can't then this senseless paragraphs are worthless. If you can, I am totally fine with your upgrade and I will happily support you.

Seems like you are running out of arguments . Anyway I am willing to do you a favour and unwatch it since I have better things to do as of right now and actually agree with most of it (unless you provoke me again and want to stretch this thread to eternity.)

 

[azontr]

Hey, guys, you see, this hostility, it ain't good. Take a chill pill.

By the way, since I have no reason to disagree, I agree with all of this.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Now we back on track again

Waiting more input, hopefully a staff happens to look around too

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Bump

 

[Oleggator]

Generally I'm more agree than not.
Blood vengeance was referred in TT2, TT2 events got referred in canon games. Blood vengeance also did not have something so crazy to separate it from main canon. So imo the movie is fine to use more than not.

More interesting I would be about Yoshimitsu thingy. Not because "is Bryan was carrying actual laser" but to note should feat be considered despite the fact that Bryan died in that ending I guess (similar to how it went in TK 5 with Yoshi killing Bryan and vice versa, also similar to those Ana/Nina endings where the one who have ending is dominating)?

 

[Oleggator]

Probably the logical answer to my question should be the fact that feat is still happened, but still worth to ask.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

More interesting I would be about Yoshimitsu thingy. Not because "is Bryan was carrying actual laser" but to note should feat be considered despite the fact that Bryan died in that ending I guess (similar to how it went in TK 5 with Yoshi killing Bryan and vice versa, also similar to those Ana/Nina endings where the one who have ending is dominating)?

While the killing part would make someone be wondering the same thing, its not out of the realm of possibility of the character unable to pull it off

Like if you got an ending of a villain in a scenario they win and destroy the universe for example, but in main canon they didnt cuz they lost and such, its not unreasonable not to say the villain isnt capable of that

Ofc as long as its not obvious outlier or illogical moment (fodder beating a god tier)

 

[BlackDarkness679]

As for Anna/Nina deal, they are comparable, although Nina canonically has an official win over her which we are told about

 

[Zencha9]

i agree

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Bump

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Bump

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

What SamanPatou has accepted is probably fine, but I will try to get some more input here first.

@TISSG7Redgrave @ChocomilkAlex @Zencha9 @MeleeniumRXJ

What do you think about this?

 

[BlackDarkness679]

zencha already agreed 4 comments above

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Sorry about that then.

 

[Zencha9]

yea pretty much

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Are the others tagged active here or the wiki tho? Didnt seen them around often

 

[NotoriouSoda]

Also agree with it as well. I trust BlackDarkness with his Tekken CRT since he’s very familiar with the verse

 

[Antvasima]

Are the others tagged active here or the wiki tho? Didnt seen them around often

I will ask some discussion moderators for input as well.

@Dino_Ranger_Black @Gemmysaur @JustSomeWeirdo @LordGriffin1000 @Theglassman12 @Crabwhale @Eficiente @GyroNutz @DarkGrath @The_Wright_Way

Would you be willing to help out with evaluating this discussion please?

 

[GyroNutz]

Unsure about the light speed stuff, the rest seems fine.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

The speed upgrade seems fine and since the calcs are accepted I don't have an issue. As for the light reactions, the laser might be okay but I'm not really sure, same goes for the light arrows. Lifting Strength is fine but I'd rather a calc be made for the panda stopping the giant foot.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Im not sure if its possible to calc the latter feat, i asked someone about it in advance and said it cant be possible

On the light stuff for attack speed i suggested likely/possibly if there is doubts for normal rating

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Im not sure if its possible to calc the latter feat, i asked someone about it in advance and said it cant be possible

On the light stuff for attack speed i suggested likely/possibly if there is doubts for normal rating

I guess "likely higher" could work for those who scale to the feat. Though if people think the Class K suggestion works I don't have a problem with that.

I don't have any issues with likely/possibly higher for the speed rating.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

There is more to add for the light stuff, according to the page for this it says

"Additionally, if a series is very close to lightspeed or exceeds it in several other calcs and scenarios (such as what is seen in DBZ), there is less of a burden of proof to show that the laser is a true laser."

The verse has as seen above agreed too calcs at sub-rel+ and rel, former being done by a near bottom of the verse character out of which almost all upscale from, meanwhile the latter scales from upper half of tier list of the verse and they have those light stuff on top of that, god tiers are already above SoL as told above

Plus they have reasonable evidence for the idea of being light too for arguing about it, likely/possibly SoL attack speed is a safe option in any case, we have verses which are given such ratings for a little less or when they arent physically close to this as in here with a nifty upscaling chain