Tatsumi vs Garou

[FateAlbane]

Tatsumi and Garou ... Last time, Tatsumi won. But they both went through some revisions, so it's time for a rematch.

Battle of the Reactive Evolution characters who also become monsters.

Rules: Speed is equalized. Tatsumi is at his best(?), and his High End Mountain Level will be used for this match. Garou is in human form. Who wins and why?

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Can Human Garou fly? And does he have a possible counter for invisibility?

 

[FateAlbane]

Human Garou can't fly. Also, don't think so but Tats Invisibility is limited. He can't spam it and it lasts for a certain time.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Okay. That's a good advantage for Tatsumi then. His invisibility should be useful even if it lasts for a short amount of time. One more thing. Does Human Garou have Regenerationn? Or is it Monster Garou?

I'm voting for Tatsumi because of his flight, precognition and Regenerationn. Both of them can evolve but Tatsumi has more advantages in his favor as opposed to Garou. Garou could most likely dominate in close combat, but Tatsumi has precognition and could retreat to the air to recollect himself or something. Then he can become invisible and stab Garou in a fatal spot. Another disadvantage for Garou is that he would be unwilling to use the martial arts that he learned from Bang. And even a few minutes of hesitation could prove fatal in a battle.

 

[FateAlbane]

I don't know about the regen part, but okay.

Tatsumi: 1 (Burning Full Fingers)

Garou: 0

Inconclusive: 0

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Isn't Garou's prediction near precog itself? He has his own brand of Regenerationn and tenacity too and I wouldn't be surprised that he has some pressure points considering that well, he literally had so many martial arts and one of them included venom in the title and he wasn't afraid of mixing it to his plethora of attacks.

And Garou didn't really have that issue the moment he actually needed to take an opponent seriously. He just gets irked by it. That's all. Otherwise he would've lost to Tanktop and Metal Bat already. Last time he hesitated on using it he took that hesitation and smashed Tanktop and countered attacks with it. And he's not above to breaking weapons either.

Though I do admit that Tatsumi probably has the better reactive adaption ability here, if Garou discovers that he's going to make sure he doesn't recover.

 

[Drellix]

Going with Tatsumi for adaption, invisibility, flight and regen.

 

[FateAlbane]

Tatsumi: 2 (Burning Full Fingers, Drellix)

Garou: 1 (COB)

Inconclusive: 0

 

[Drellix]

Bump

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I don't think Human Garou has Regenerationn.

 

[Spartan1204]

Human Garou has mid-low regen. After he got beat up by Bang and Bomb, he healed up completely and faster than anyone had expected. I go with Garou for reasons above. In addition, Garou memory and mimcry are insane, he will remember Tatsumi's moveset and then use it against Tatsumi.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Would Mid-Low Regenerationn help when he gets stabbed in the brain or heart? If so, his mimicry might make things difficult. I still see Tatsumi adapting. If not, well, he dies.

 

[Bleuburd]

If Garou could survive Tatsumi's first attack out of invisibility then he takes it. Putting into consideration the usual scenario when Akame ga kill "Assassinations" happen, I say Tatsumi wouldn't be able to utilize invisibility to his advantage. The keyword is "Speed Equalized", we've seen Garou take on faster and stronger opponents before (*cough Saitama *cough), and his Martial arts mastery really shines on this, with the ability to almost instantly adapt to enemy technique (since this is human only he won't have physical evolution), and Garou's redirection ability (Water polo carbonated fist) will be specially effective here. Extreme speed gap is required to fight Garou (that or any way to counter his slippery nature like AOE attacks or incapacitation), Tatsumi will have a hard time trying to hit Garou and all of his attacks could potentially be redirected to him.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Garou wouldn't even bother to use the martial arts at first. Tatsumi has Regenerationn so it wouldn't matter if Garou redirects his attacks to hit him. And the redirecting stuff comes from his martial arts, right? Speed is equalized so Tatsumi will hit him for sure. And Tatsumi can adapt instantly too. The question is if Garou can survive being pierced in the brain or heart.

 

[Bleuburd]

Speed is equalized so Tatsumi will hit him for sure.
Not true. Even against a massively faster opponent (Saitama) Garou's Martial art is effective, speed equalized would be a walk in the park. Garou's Martial arts enable him to dodge, react, counter, and redirect attacks even if it we're from somone much faster than him (Garou claims that he could dodge attacks before they even happen), I honestly don't see anyway for Tatsumi to land a hit on Garou (except for sneak attacks, once this turns into a fight Garou would always get the advantage). Not to mention that after seeing any of Tatsumi's skills and styles and techniques once, Garou will have created a new fighting style to counter it rendering it useless (like disarming Tatsumi), or worse use it against Tatsumi himself (he could also add it to his skillset), eventually this will lead to a scenario where Tatsumi could no longer do anything to Garou as he's run out of moves. You keep asking if Garou could survive being pierced, well if i'm right and we are using peak-human Garou and not current manga Garou, then yes, because peak Garou has Mountain level durability.

Also Garou was only hesitant to use water fist in his introductory chapters, now he actually keeps using it (Garou vs Bat). Note also that this is a fight, as in 2 characters locked in combat, and not an assassination attempt to an unsuspecting Garou so invisibility and sneak attacks will have limited effectiveness.

Anyway tell me more about Tatsumi's adaptability and Precog. I assume that his adaptabiliy is the type that lets you resist poison or fire or magic, does his power also let him instantly counter enemy fighting styles? And about his precog which is better his or a basic sharingan?

 

[Gemmysaur]

Won't that just mean he has high enough reflexes to combat someone faster than his body can move?

Anyways, going with Tatsumi for reasons stated. That and him wielding a spear will make it hard for Garou to attack him.

 

[FateAlbane]

Tatsumi: 3 (Burning Full Fingers, Drellix, Gemmysaur)

Garou: 3 (COB, Spartan1204, Bleuburd)

Inconclusive: 0

 

[Ryukama]

Not true. Even against a massively faster opponent (Saitama) Garou's Martial art is effective

Saitama never, ever took that fight seriously. He thought Monster Garou was a child dressed up in a monster costume.

The only times Garou kept up with him were when he was extremely casual, and once he started getting slightly less casual, Garou was getting demolished.

His martial arts won't save him from getting speedblitzed.

 

[Bleuburd]

His martial arts won't save him from getting speedblitzed.

But it did. That's what happens in the comic. And no speedblitz here since speed equalized. I'll be honest I don't know much about Tatsumi other than what's written in his profile, so if someone coud school me on his precog and adaptability that would really help, as of now though I see Garou as the vastly superior fighter.

 

[Ryukama]

@Bleuburd Garou never used his martial arts to defeat someone able to blitz him. '

Metal Bat was even becoming too fast for Garou's martial arts to compensate.

And Garou kept up with Saitama when he wasn't trying in the absolute slightest. Then when Saitama slightly put more effort Garou was getting destroyed. To the point of even reducing in forms.

What you're saying is like if a toddler managed to somewhat keep up with an adult that wasn't fighting back, got knocked out once the adult started fighting back, and now claiming the toddler has martial arts that allow him to fight adults.

 

[Ryukama]

Here's Garou admitting he's being overwhelmed by Saitama's totally casual speed.

Calling himself an insect compared to Saitama's might.

Garou stating that nothing he has (including technique and speed) is capable of contending with Saitama.

Garou unable to block, dodge or react to Saitama despite being in a much faster form. And him pointing out that he's still no match for Saitama even in this far greater state of power.

Garou does not have "anti-speedblitzing kung fu" or anything that allows him to somehow keep up with opponents far faster than him.

He can and has been defeated by people who have a speed advantage on him. The notion that Garou used his martial arts to at all contend with Saitama is completely untrue.

If Tatsumi was faster then he would be able to blitz. With speed equal he can at least keep up with him somewhat.

 

[Spartan1204]

Garou's martial arts doesn't allow Garou to beat people that could blitz him, but it does allow him to beat people that are slightly faster than him. Before Serious Tableflip, Saitama was already going at a speed faster than Garou, but Garou's martial arts allowed him to dodge Saitama's attacks. In this fight between Tatsumi and Garou where speed equalized, Garou would no doubt be able to dodge most of Tatsumi's attacks.

 

[FateAlbane]

Not taking part on the debate, but just passing by to remark that this kind of statement >> "a character can dodge all the attacks from another one" << when speed is equalized is as fallacious as it gets.

Otherwise we also get stuff like "Goku can adapt to any hax because he has shown in his series that he can deal with hax with his martial arts and sheer power level."

 

[Bleuburd]

Won't that just mean he has high enough reflexes to combat someone faster than his body can move?

Not at all. Its in ch 89 of the webcomic (the exact definition is on page 13) It doesn't require him to be faster than his opponent to be "untouchable", as I said before he could do that even against faster opponents (meaning it's not a speed feat, Meaning even with speed equalized he'll retain this advantage). It's a combination of his genius level intelect (to observe enemies, and memorize their movement patterns), and his martial arts mastery (the ability to dodge the attack before it happens and to launch his own attack right as the attack is being executed), the result is a counter attact with the power of both his and his enemy's attack. And again this is from him fighting a much faster and stronger opponent, this is speed equalized and they're at equal tier, this will be easier. Human Garou is only limited to Mountain level stats (can ohko prisoner, comic 62 p13), martial arts (precog, adaptation), and a high endurance (able to survive a pierced torso/heart comic 58p10) though, so no reactive evolution or regen on this one (can still recover from fatal wounds but not heal completely).

 

[Bleuburd]

The question is if Garou can survive being pierced in the brain or heart.

webcomic chapter 58 page 10 and chapter 68 page 9-15

Getting his rib cage crushed


Garou getting pierced to the heart (he's ok).

. Can Tatsumi even land a hit on Garou? This is speed equalized, we've seen Garou casually dodge attacks from faster opponents, as simple as that. I know it seems ironic that I'm claiming that Garou could dodge Tatsumi's attacks but gave scans of him getting tagged, well IDK the reason for the left one (maybe he just didn't feel like dodging?), but the right one he tried to repel an attack that was too powerful for him (he was able to right after this scenario though).

 

[FateAlbane]

Still fallacious. By your logic his Martial Arts make him untouchable in any match with Speed Equalized which is absurd. If you said he would have an advantage, that's one thing. Saying that he'll just have a walk in the park and NEVER get hit by fighting someone as fast as himself who also happens to have abilities of his own AND techniques to boot is fallacious to absurd levels.

 

[FateAlbane]

It's like you only consider what Garou can do, ignore entirely what Tatsumi can do on his end and just say "Yeah, he could do that against characters in his own series, of course this guy is never touching him." smh

 

[Spartan1204]

Not taking part on the debate, but just passing by to remark that this kind of statement >> "a character can dodge all the attacks from another one" << when speed is equalized is as fallacious as it gets.
Otherwise we also get stuff like "Goku can adapt to any hax because he has shown in his series that he can deal with hax with his martial arts and sheer power level."

Those are two different things. Also, that's kind of how precognition works, being able to predict future events and preparing to dodge beforehand. If I remember correctly Garou's precognition has been more effective than Tatsumi's. For dodging, it comes down to who has the better precognition. Garou's precognition is just that accurate and effective when it comes to dodging fists and weapons. Unless we're equalizing precognition as well.

 

[Spartan1204]

For sneak attacks, unless the person doing the sneak attack is way faster than Garou like Metal Bat amped up with fighting spirit , Garou has been able to react to sneak attacks 1 2 .

 

[FateAlbane]

Sorry, but the whole dodging faster opponents and "someone has to be much faster than him to actually hit" sounds so much like PIS and NLF, It's not even funny.

And it's not different things. You're taking a feat from OPM and exaggeratting the heck of it, going as far as saying that "With speed equalized, he's untouchable" is outright ridiculous. It's exactly the same thing as the reasoning that "Goku showed that he can deal with one hax via raw power. Hence, any hax he sees he'll deal with that via raw power".

Garou displayed this in his own series against enemies that do not have the same powers, abilities and techniques as Tatsumi, who will have the same speed and reactions as Garou here. Stop treating his technique and Martial Arts like some sort of God Mode, people. Like I said above, calling it as a good advantage and saying he wins because of that is perfectly fine with me, but the whole "Tats is never hitting him with speed equalized" is just silly.

 

[Bleuburd]

Still fallacious. By your logic his Martial Arts make him untouchable in any match with Speed Equalized which is absurd. If you said he would have an advantage, that's one thing. Saying that he'll just have a walk in the park and NEVER get hit by fighting someone as fast as himself who also happens to have abilities of his own AND techniques to boot is fallacious to absurd levels.

Sorry i didn't mean it like that, your right that is fallacious. What i'm trying to say is that Speed equalized would give Garou an advantage.

 

[Bleuburd]

Garou does not have "anti-speedblitzing kung fu" or anything that allows him to somehow keep up with opponents far faster than him.

He can and has been defeated by people who have a speed advantage on him. The notion that Garou used his martial arts to at all contend with Saitama is completely untrue.

If Tatsumi was faster then he would be able to blitz. With speed equal he can at least keep up with him somewhat.

The entire Chapter 89 of the webcomic. It's monster Garou shown fighting, but he utilizes Martial arts(something human Garou in human form can also use). It's specifically written there that Saitama has superior speed and reflexes, and also specifically shown that despite that Garou has the upper hand (in terms of number of attacks landed). I'm NOT saying that Garou can outspeed faster opponents cause that's just the stupidest thing ever, it's just that he has ways to compenste for a speed gap (like precog).

 

[Spartan1204]

@FateAlbane

Unless it's something like psychic attack or some hax, most melee methods of combat are likely to be dodged by Garou. Okay maybe saying "Tatsumi is never hitting him with speed equalized" is a bit much, but I still stand by Tatsumi is going to have an extremely hard time hitting Garou especially face to face.

 

[Bleuburd]

Not taking part on the debate, but just passing by to remark that this kind of statement >> "a character can dodge all the attacks from another one" << when speed is equalized is as fallacious as it gets.
Otherwise we also get stuff like "Goku can adapt to any hax because he has shown in his series that he can deal with hax with his martial arts and sheer power level."

Funny how you're commiting a fallacy yourself here.

 

[FateAlbane]

@Spartan See, that's okay with me. When you put it like that, it sounds more like "Garou is way more skilled at close combat so Tats will have a hard time hitting him."

That makes sense. It would be like an average person trying to hit a martial artist, they may have around the same speeds give or take but the martial artist has techniques that screw the untrained one (even if say, the person has the same speeds, the martial artist would obviously have the edge by virtue of technique and experience).

But the other way you guys were wording it was stretching it way too much so I had to point that.

 

[FateAlbane]

Funny how you're commiting a fallacy yourself here.

You do realize I was using that as an example to point that your logic was flawed, right?

By saying I used a fallacy with that, you kinda just proved my point yourself. top kek

 

[Bleuburd]

@Spartan See, that's okay with me. When you put it like that, it sounds more like "Garou is way more skilled at close combat so Tats will have a hard time hitting him."
That makes sense. It would be like an average person trying to hit a martial artist, they may have around the same speeds give or take but the martial artist has techniques that screw the untrained one (even if say, the person has the same speeds, the martial artist would obviously have the edge by virtue of technique and experience).

But the other way you guys were wording it was stretching it way too much so I had to point that.

Yeah I do admit I used the wrong terms there. I kinda overselled Garou. But he does have the advantage in cqc. But seriously someone pls post links for Tatsumi, especially for his precog and adaptation, cuz that would really help.

 

[Ryukama]

I'm NOT saying that Garou can outspeed faster opponents cause that's just the stupidest thing ever, it's just that he has ways to compenste for a speed gap (like precog).

Yes you did. You claimed that he can keep up with characters much faster than him and that he can prevent a speedblitz with pure martial arts.

Maybe he kept up with Saitama while he was using an utterly insignificant portion of his power. But once he even just goes somewhat less casual, Garou gets completely overwhelmed and even admits his skill can't help him.

This proves that Garou cannot fight people much faster than him or save himself from getting speedblitzed.

Can his skill help make up for a slight advantage in speed? Sure. But not against a significant or blitzworthy advantage.

And everyone is acting like Tatsumi has no skill, no abilities Garou isn't used to and nothing he can do as well.

Saying things like Tatsumi will never hit him, that Garou cannot get tagged with speed equal or he can fight guys that can blitz him is completely false and NLF.

 

[Bleuburd]

I'm NOT saying that Garou can outspeed faster opponents cause that's just the stupidest thing ever, it's just that he has ways to compenste for a speed gap (like precog).

Yes you did. You claimed that he can keep up with characters much faster than him
Saying things like Tatsumi will never hit him, that Garou cannot get tagged with speed equal or he can fight guys that can blitz him is completely false and NLF.

Dude like what's up with you? I specifically stated that he can't ouspeed faster opponents, he can only compensate with it through martial art skills and precog, I literally just explained it in the statement you quoted above. I NEVER SAID HE COULD OUTSPEED FASTER OPPONENTS your links prove that. You're comitting a fallacy here, strawman. Seriously reread it. Where does it stay that he's faster? Everytime I refer to his technique and not to his speed.

last sentence i already corrected myself.

 

[Ryukama]

I already finished and posted my comment right before you made your response, and yours came up first. When I'm in the middle of typing a response, I don't get notifications if other responses were made while I'm making mine, so when I press enter I'm not aware that people said something prior.

And there is no need to all caps people and go "what's up with you?" Regardless if you're upset with what I said, I never acted that way towards you and I'd appreciate you act the same to me. Thank you.

Also I am not strawmanning you. You said Garou could fight massively faster opponents and could prevent a speedblitz. If that's not what you meant, then it's your fault for saying that, not mine for pointing out you said that.

This is just a simple VS thread. There's no need to be taking things personally and actually getting upset. Especially when unlike you, I have not personally insulted you.