Tatsumaki (Tornado of Terror) vs Edo Madara Uchiha (REMATCH)

[AquaWaifu]

This Edo Madara vs Tatsumaki



Madara ******* Uchiha.


Madara is in his Edo Tensei form.

Fight is in the field where the 4th Shinobi War took place.

Both are In-character.

SPEED EQUALIZED

Fight starts 20 meters away with Tatsumaki in the air 30 feet up.

Victory is through any means


Madara - 1 (DaFritzi)

Tatsumaki - 7 (Tk45, KuuIchigo, Scarlet Firefly, Monarch Laciel, Bleuburd, Rin Rokudo, Cropfist)


Now I KNOW the last vs thread was just recently closed, but I think that thread could've had some info right from the start to make it more clear on what this match is actually like.

For starters unlike the previous one which had had the slight mistake of not clarifying which version of Madara was being used (as multiple keys in his profile are High 6-C.) It was apparent that quite a few people thought he was Sage Mode Madara, which was not the case, this led to a lot of unnecessary arguing.

Also since the thread went over so long a lot of things got talked over about what Madara and Tatsumaki can and can't do. Some of which has been thoroughly debunked. I did some of my own research to clarify for everyone what Edo Madara and Tatsumaki have.

1. While under the Impure World Reincarnation, Madara was unable to use all of his Rinnegan abilities.

2. Edo Madara does not have access to Limbo or Gedo Mazou, that was after he had been revived.

3. Because of verse equalization, it was discussed that Madara's genjutsu would be something akin to mind and chi/aura manipulation. "A genjutsu is created when a ninja controls the chakra flow of a target's cerebral nervous system, thereby affecting their five senses. " Since Tatsumaki is resistant to psychic attacks and can control her own and others chi/aura it is unlikely genjutsu would work on her. However if one can describe to me or others with great detail on how it would work on here I will consider it if you use it in your vote.

4. Since it was a topic of discussion in the thread at one point, Substitution Jutsu/Body Replacement Jutsu is not teleportation. It makes no sense for a genin, basic level technique to be something so OP. It being teleportation would mean Minato's Flying Thunder God Technique would be no where near as revered or special.

Okay now that that giant info dump is over, let's try and start a more clearly defined debate, I will do my best to be as neutral as possible and will not put my own vote in.

I will however debate over a vote if it is deemed inaccurate, be it for Madara or Tatsumaki.

 

[Tk45]

First off, Tatsumaki would not fly a mere 30 feet in the air. When going out to take out monsters she commonly flies 100s of meters in the air and would as a result be basically impossible to attack by surprise from the ground.

For the question of her attack potency, Tatsumaki casually crushed this massive Demon-class monster into a car-sized ball of flesh:

Susanoo is easily outclassed by this monster and it follows that she could easily turn Madara into paste in an instant with telekinesis.

A panel of its size and it being lifted easily:

http://www3.mangafreak.net/Read1_Onepunch_Man_110_13#gohere

One for the crushed result:

http://www3.mangafreak.net/Read1_Onepunch_Man_110_17#gohere'

As the original poster already made a note of, Tatsumaki can resist mental attacks as is explicitly laid out on her profile. It'd be OOC for Madara to immediately use a genjutsu, and even if he did, it wouldn't be effective. Amateratsu would be stopped by her psychic barriers, a meteor of the size Madara creates would be nowhere near enough, his ability to create chains or pollen is just too weak(she can easily manipulate the pollen or simply fly up and away at high speeds, not to mention her psychic barriers)

Tatsumaki can detect her enemies psychically even if they are a kilometer underground(shadow clones will not work and he cannot hide), and since she's usually flying 100s of meters in the air, the chance of eye contact for Tsukyomi is basically zero. Also obviously the moment she begins crushing him to a tiny ball of flesh with telekinesis the chance of using Tsukyomi is gone as his eyes no longer are there, or even hands to use jutsu seals.

Even if she was fighting an army of Madaras, she could easily defeat all of them with telekinesis as is clear by feats like this against 10'000 Black Sperm(all individually pretty strong)

https://imgur.com/a/BaYiC

Proof they are individually strong:

http://onepunchman.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Sperm

Regenerationn is not going to be effective for Madara if his little bits are twisted over each other like a pretzel, a mere expansion of new flesh isn't going to reorder his body into a functional form. Sending Madara into space or many miles underground is something she can definitely do.

Even if Tatsumaki could be rendered unconscious, her psychic barriers would still remain:

http://i.imgur.com/SzklLeo.png

Proof that Tatsumaki CAN lift Madara into spaceSaitama only negated this with his limiter-breaking willpower and general unbeatable status)

http://onepunchman.wikia.com/wiki/Saitama

(This is from there)

Indomitable Will: Saitama has been shown to possess incredible willpower. It is most evident in the flashback to his hero training regime. Even if he was in great pain, or could barely move, or vomited blood, he continued his training.[45] Through sheer willpower and effort, he removed his natural limiter. Saitama's willpower is also evident in his fight against Tatsumaki. Saitama's strength of will is directly connected to his psychic resistance. Tatsumaki was unable to bend Saitama or lift him into space(emphasis mine), exclaiming for the latter that he was "heavy".[21]

Here's the likely outcome of the battle:

-Tatsumaki probably just attacks right away, it'd happened enough times in the manga, and Madara is pulverized before he can do anything into a pile of blood and liquefied bones, then tatsumaki telekinetically carries him up a few 100 meters before launching the compressed tiny little ball into space, fight over. Also she could likely just casually crush his body continuously with minimal effort as it is restored, allowing her to basically drop him wherever she wants at her leisure, even in a volcano or in some deep sea trench where the water pressure will keep him crushed forever. In other words, the fight is over the moment she begins crushing him with telekinesis.

Whether it's a meteor, a tsukyomi, amateratsu, or some attempt by Madara to use Wood Release, nothing's going to work on Tatsumaki. The first and last are easily stopped by telekinesis, tsukyomi is stopped by her mental resistance and psychic whirlwind(and probably never has a chance to be used in the first place), and amateratsu is stopped by her psychic barriers. Also she could anticipate Amateratsu since she can sense Chi, as if she had a Byakugan but better, I believe a Hyuuga has seen chakra buildup for amateratsu before, so she could easily notice an attack about to be unleashed even if it was surprise attack and then squish Madara before he unleashed it.

Madara lacks any real options for killing Tatsumaki quickly, and even if his physical attacks were much more powerful than they are and not so easy to casually stop with telekinesis, Tatsumaki's high speed flight would allow her to evade very easily and abuse her flight advantage quite a lot. Whether chains or Susanoo sword or whatever, nothing's going to reach her let alone be fast enough to overwhelm her speed at 100s of meters up in the air away from Madara and/or a perfect susanoo. Izanagi would do nothing to really improve his chances, it'd be just like a new fight all over again if he randomly respawned somewhere.

Voting for Tatsumaki for stated reasons, a low-effort win is obvious here on her part, even if Madara was already in a perfect susanoo at the start of the battle.

 

[AquaWaifu]

Wow, you pointed everything I did in the original thread and more with excellent detail...I....jeesus this very well thought out. Even being a neutral party here I gotta give props to this. Would putting her starting point at 300 feet be better to atleast make sense for her? I know it still a little low, but...


Seriously if this is like 100 votes worth in terms of quality.

 

[KuuIchigo]

Tatsumaki via Tk45 fantastic reasonings.

 

[Tk45]

To be fair I did read the old thread first so I saw your comments. With starting height, I guess I should probably use more examples on that being usually higher than just 30 feet or so, my bet would be this:

If she's already on the hunt for him as an enemy, yeah she'd be flying 100+ meters up probably as she does against that one monster and multiple others I think(although, she didn't against Black Sperm probably due to her ego issues, so it's possible she could start standing on the ground and Madara would get a chance to attack with Tsukyomi).

But even if Madara is assumed to use Tsukyomi before she does anything, I think she can win it, assuming you boost his tsukyomi power so her blocking it is a struggle, it's not like he can kill her easily while she tries to negate it, due to the psychic barriers that go while she's unconscious even, so it's probably not an issue.

Whatever height you choose is up to you, ultimately it depends on how she chooses to act IC. Since Madara is a human, it is possible she'd descend from the air a bit and talk due to her arrogance, and the fact that 100-Eyed Octopus obviously couldn't talk and wouldn't be able to listen to a speech by her.

So since the arrogance is so bad with her I guess she maybe would just be talking to Madara, 30 feet up or on the ground isn't crazy as that'd put him in verbal range, although it's not like she can't really quickly fly up to a big safe distance if she was in trouble.

 

[AquaWaifu]

Tk45 I'm sorry, but where the **** where you during the last thread, you could've cleared up so much crap in the debate lol.

 

[AquaWaifu]

I'll keep it at 30 then.

 

[Tk45]

Lol sorry,I actually just made an account upon seeing that thread and its ending.

 

[AquaWaifu]

bump

 

[ScarletFirefly]

I posted my reasonings in the last thread, so I'm going with Tatsumaki.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Why don't you wait until the revisions for the verse are over? Also, what happened to the other thread? I mean, why was it closed?

 

[AquaWaifu]

revisions?

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Yeah, an admin is preparing revisions for the whole verse and is scouring through all the chapters of the manga.

 

[AquaWaifu]

wait revisiosns for what verse?

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

...Narutoverse.

Oh, I noticed I didn't specify. Sorry for that. I thought everyone knew.

 

[AquaWaifu]

OMG I tried to for this thread read through all of when Madara first appears in the 4th Shinobi War to when he stops being an Edo Tensei Zombie to better inform myself of what he can really do, and I could do about 50 chapters before feeling overwhelmed. Is this one guy going through EVERYTHING? Like all 700 something chapters?

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Yeah, and he's preparing one for Bleach too.

 

[AquaWaifu]

bump

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

As I voted for Tats last time with all prior mentioned reasoning, I vote for her again.

 

[Bleuburd]

Tatsumaki. She may not be able to permanently kill Madara but she can win easily by incap, BFR, or maybe even K.O. She can also tank all his offensive jutsu's, and just in case she ever gets overwhelmed she could just easily kill him with the wave of a hand to buy time to reposition or do whatever.

 

[Bleuburd]

Tk45 I'm sorry, but where the **** where you during the last thread, you could've cleared up so much crap in the debate lol.

Exactly. Where were you when we needed you?

 

[AquaWaifu]

bump

 

[AquaWaifu]

bump

 

[AquaWaifu]

bump

 

[DaFritzi]

I don't think Madara is going to be stomped as hard as Tk describes it. Edo regen works imo, since edo characters don't have a real body (it rather looks like made from dust). Madara could break his arms and legs or rip them off entirely to get back to normal.

Also I see Madaras Perfect Susanoo as far superior compared to the octopus. Not only is Susanoos AP far higher than what this octopus looks like being capable of doing, an octopus by his nature seems not very durable. Even if this octopus comes from opm, I don't think it can compare to susanoo.

Nonetheless I vote for Tatsumaki, since none of this prevents Tatsumaki from shooting Madara into space. (Using Revived Madara could have an entirely different result though)

 

[AquaWaifu]

@DaFritzi

the octopus has a profile here

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Hundred-Eyes_Octopus

 

[DaFritzi]

^That one I didn't see coming . Still, the profile is quite vague with most stats at unknown, possibly city level. Nevertheless I was right, since Perfect Susanoo is easily on the higher ends of mountain level (from the feat where he busted all of the mounains in the surroundings with a single strike).

 

[AquaWaifu]

bump

 

[AquaWaifu]

bump

 

[Guardian_of_the_8gates]

Are we forgetting the fact that Madara is immortal in his Edo Tensei mode? Even if Tatsumaki has the advantage, she would never beat him simply because he can't die, and he can't be exhausted.

 

[Omimi]

madara wins via immortal

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

???

BFR? Crushes him into a ball of meat then throws him at the sun?

No one has forgotten Madara is immortal in Edo Tensei mode

Did you read the wonderful explanation that is literally the first comment, or were you too busy fanboying over Madara?

 

[DaFritzi]

That was a bit harsh, but you're right. It's victory by any means, too bad for Madara.

 

[Omimi]

did she throws any 1 at the sun

 

[DaFritzi]

Good question, did she (or a similar feat)? If she didn't, since Madara would be able to propel himself back to earth (edo characters should be able to survive in space), I'd have to change my vote to inconclusive.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

It's telekinesis. She can propel Madara into space, and thanks to Newton's first law, he'll keep flying even after she stops pushing him. That's an easy BFR

Sorry, my first reply was a little harsh

Edit: She was going to throw Saitama into space, but she couldn't because... you know... it's Saitama. It's pretty clear she would have been quite capable of it has it not been Saitama she was trying to throw. The webcomic even says his muscles twitched, implying he did on some level need to consciously resist it, and considering this is Saitama, who has literally ignored every other attack in the show, that says a lot.

 

[DaFritzi]

Newtons third law, by blasting fire explosions he can push himself back. Like a rocket.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Their flame jutsu doesn't generate force

 

[DaFritzi]

I was referring to this from his profile "The force of the fire chakra is similar to an explosion, as it can carve craters into rock." (Though you might be right, since this could also mean the force of the explosion on contact)

However wouldn't Tengai Shinsei (the meteor thing), be gravity manip?

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Aerial fireballs and no push whatsoever.