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Tatsumaki (Tornado of Terror) vs Edo Madara Uchiha (REMATCH)
- Thread starter AquaWaifu
- Start date
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One thing I want to say that I think could give Madara a win would be to use Bansho Tenin to attract Tatsumaki to her, make physical contact and then use Preta Path to suck out her equivalent of chakra or the Human Path and suck out her soul and kill her. He would have to resist her tk long enough to do this, but her overconfidence might make her let her guard down.
I know Im the OP but Im just saying my own thoughts, not voitng one way or another.
I know Im the OP but Im just saying my own thoughts, not voitng one way or another.
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One of the reasons the previous thread was closed was because of false arguments like these, making it hard to count all the VALID votes. With this kind of logic I could just argue that Tatsumaki would win via flying out of range (which she can easily do).Omimi said:
1st fallacy: Immortal=unbeatable.
- so with this logic all immortal characters automatically win?
2nd fallacy: He can't die so he wins
- So let's assume that Madara can indeeed take all of Tatsumaki's attack handily, does he win? NO. Because in order to win he must either kill, incap, BFR, or K.O Tatsumaki, and immortality doesn't do any of that. It's like an Armadillo vs a Lion, just because the armadillo survives doesn't mean he wins. At best this kind of argument will yield a stalemate, not a win.
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The OP states that he does not have all Rinnegan abilities. Which ones does he not have? I didn't take the rinnegan into consideration at all, because I was not sure which abilities he can't use.AquaWaifu said:
@AquaWaifu. "Gravity manipulation, how would you think he would use it to help him? Im curious"
He could use it to counter BFR by being shot into space. Thus making this fight at least inconclusive, since no matter how hard Tatsumaki destroys Madara he will just regenerate. And because of that he might even be able to tire out Tatsumaki, since Madaras stamina is unlimited.
Actually this really could be Madaras win. He could fight her for as long as it takes for her to get tired (even if we're talking about days) and then bomb her with meteors until her barriers give in. Also the rinnegan abilities I didn't take into consideration could come in handy as well. Unless I missed a way for tatsumaki to stop edo regen, I will change my vote to madara.
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Tatsumaki for reasons above.
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@DaFritzi
Madara does not have accesss to stuff like Limbo and Gedo Mazou (i.e the complicated uber stuff), he should have access to all the paths though.
HOWEVER your point on using it to counter BFR is flawed...for starters, to attract himself back to Earth would require using it on a massive scale since he's attracting himself back to the goddamn planet. And the larger the scale the technique is used the higher the charge time required beofre the technique can be used again.
Madara does not have accesss to stuff like Limbo and Gedo Mazou (i.e the complicated uber stuff), he should have access to all the paths though.
HOWEVER your point on using it to counter BFR is flawed...for starters, to attract himself back to Earth would require using it on a massive scale since he's attracting himself back to the goddamn planet. And the larger the scale the technique is used the higher the charge time required beofre the technique can be used again.
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Madara has never shown he can affect his body with his gravity manipulation.
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Why isn't this closed? Madara is only High 6-C using Nine-Tails, Tengai, or Gedo Mazu. Without those he's only 7-A.
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Irrelevant, only actual hax can make the difference between tiers. Madara doesn't have any methods of kill Tats with rinnegan given he's damn near feat less with them.AquaWaifu said:
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Actually it has been shown. When Pain uses shinra tensei to destroy konoha he is levitating. This means your own body can be affected by gravity manip as well, also it seemed very casual, since it didn't have a cool down like all other gravity manips he performs.AquaWaifu said:
This scales to Madara like all other Rinnegan abilities did. (Actually levitation should be added to Madara and Nagato, I'll make a thread about that)
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If feats were everything then Cell wouldn't be Solar System level. But since Im using another series to justify Madara's rinnegan I will also add that since the fake rinnegan were basically stated as being like the real ones except they can't be used to do stuff like as stated before Gedo Mazo.
Also regen is considered hax,
Also regen is considered hax,
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https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Category:HaxAquaWaifu said:
Do you see Madara on there? There's no reason to believe that Edo Madara has the Rinnegan's full attributes when his is fake. That and he never showed it.
Also regen is considered hax,
No
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That's levitation, not suited for combat and it's unclear how he did that. If he was capable of flight in combat he would've used it.DaFritzi said:
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Reason why Nagato/Pain didn't always use it could either be because he is simply faster by moving on the ground or because it consumes too much chakra to just levitate for the fun of it.
Unclear how he did it? Deva path controls attractive and repulsive forces, levitation is completely feasible going with the description.
Not suited for combat, most likely since he never used it in battle, useful for maneuvering in space, surely it seems so.
Unclear how he did it? Deva path controls attractive and repulsive forces, levitation is completely feasible going with the description.
Not suited for combat, most likely since he never used it in battle, useful for maneuvering in space, surely it seems so.
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He literally never used leviatation again and neither did Madara for that matter.
Both of them cannot manipulate gravity at will as the manipulation is limited. They can only repel things and attract things with themselves as the epicenter. If Pain used a miniature Shinra Tensei to propel himself up, there's be a noticeable effect on the ground used on. Also both Shinra Tensei and Bansho Tenin are not continuous, it's just a 360 degree shockwave. Furthermore, if Pain used Shinra Tensei to levitate, he'd need to wait a certain amount of seconds (3 I believe) before using another one. This would mean that Pain would start freefalling when deactivating his levitation technique and use the large scale Shinra Tensei.
It is very likely that that was used for dramatic effect to show the readers the "god" side of Pain.
Edit: The time interval is 5 seconds not 3.
Both of them cannot manipulate gravity at will as the manipulation is limited. They can only repel things and attract things with themselves as the epicenter. If Pain used a miniature Shinra Tensei to propel himself up, there's be a noticeable effect on the ground used on. Also both Shinra Tensei and Bansho Tenin are not continuous, it's just a 360 degree shockwave. Furthermore, if Pain used Shinra Tensei to levitate, he'd need to wait a certain amount of seconds (3 I believe) before using another one. This would mean that Pain would start freefalling when deactivating his levitation technique and use the large scale Shinra Tensei.
It is very likely that that was used for dramatic effect to show the readers the "god" side of Pain.
Edit: The time interval is 5 seconds not 3.
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7:1, poor Madara. "Victory by any means" should be added as a note, because Tatsumaki has basically no way to actually kill Madara. "Speed equalized" should be added for obvious reasons.
btw. Levitation via Deva Path is now confirmed and added to the profile. So he can influence himself with Deva Path and therefore should be able to resist BFR.
btw. Levitation via Deva Path is now confirmed and added to the profile. So he can influence himself with Deva Path and therefore should be able to resist BFR.
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also though he can levitate, there is still the "Cannot be used in rapid succession and "charge time" so BFR would still work, its just the first attempt would be countered.
In the thread I made to add levitation we concluded that the cool down of deva path levitation is at least so low that you can stop using it and then use another deva path ability mid air before falling down (that's the low end theory). Otherwise the events that happen the series would not have been possible.
oddly if Speed was equalized she'd have an easier time.
Why does speed equalized make this fight easier for her, she's a lot faster than Madara.
In the thread I made to add levitation we concluded that the cool down of deva path levitation is at least so low that you can stop using it and then use another deva path ability mid air before falling down (that's the low end theory). Otherwise the events that happen the series would not have been possible.
oddly if Speed was equalized she'd have an easier time.
Why does speed equalized make this fight easier for her, she's a lot faster than Madara.
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hmm well its levitation, theres nothing there to say it could stop Tatsumaki's tk at least on a basis where BFR isnt an option.
Actually by being able to manipulate how gravity affects him Madara should be able to resist telekinesis. However the difference in power makes this irrelevant. It only helps him to get back to earth after being shot into space.
Also Madara has techniques that ignore durability, preta path (life energy absorption) and human path (soul removal). Or he could bomb her with meteors until her shield cracks. Of course he would have to tire her out first for any of these to actually hit.
Could we wait for another 24h to see if this changes anyones opinion?
Actually by being able to manipulate how gravity affects him Madara should be able to resist telekinesis. However the difference in power makes this irrelevant. It only helps him to get back to earth after being shot into space.
Also Madara has techniques that ignore durability, preta path (life energy absorption) and human path (soul removal). Or he could bomb her with meteors until her shield cracks. Of course he would have to tire her out first for any of these to actually hit.
Could we wait for another 24h to see if this changes anyones opinion?
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There's no need. There's a reason why I didn't bother commenting on the fight (that and bringing up a suitable reason for Madara to win is probably going to take 30 minutes at least. That's too much time for someone whose name is not....forget it). All the characters at High 6-C are going back to 7-A/High 7-A. The match is going to removed because it's outdated. The way the stats are now, I could argue in favor of Madara (though it depends on some factors), but like I said, it's a waste of time. It'll turn into a stomp soon after the downgrades because Madara can't do anything to her. He doesn't have access to his hax.
Hmm, well even if Madara had access to everything, I would probably not comment anyway.
Hmm, well even if Madara had access to everything, I would probably not comment anyway.
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Edo Madara doesn't have access to his Rinnegan techniques.
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Why are they getting changed? That seems like a massive revisionBurning Full Fingers said:
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@DaFritzi
Look at the original post where Aqua highlighted some points. The first one specifically. I also checked the wiki to confirm. It says Edo Madara didn't have access to his Rinnegan techniques. But I'll check again now. Though if someone can remind us of when Madara used Rinnegan hax as an Edo Tensei, it would be good.
@Monarch
Yeah, it's a really big revision.
Look at the original post where Aqua highlighted some points. The first one specifically. I also checked the wiki to confirm. It says Edo Madara didn't have access to his Rinnegan techniques. But I'll check again now. Though if someone can remind us of when Madara used Rinnegan hax as an Edo Tensei, it would be good.
@Monarch
Yeah, it's a really big revision.
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@Bleuburd You even quoted my "will only work once Tatsumaki is tired out", there's your answer.
But yes, if there is a major naruto revision going on this thread should either be postponed or closed at all. However downgrading Madara's AP won't change the outcome of this fight, since even now this would be a hilarious stomp if it wasn't for edo immortality and human/preta path (which I am also not sure of, given that I recieved different answers from everyone I've asked).
But yes, if there is a major naruto revision going on this thread should either be postponed or closed at all. However downgrading Madara's AP won't change the outcome of this fight, since even now this would be a hilarious stomp if it wasn't for edo immortality and human/preta path (which I am also not sure of, given that I recieved different answers from everyone I've asked).
