Sword Art Online: Human Realm and War of Underworld same tiers

[DMUA]

A follow up to this thread

First problem: The calculation currently used for 8-B was actually 8-C, as the diameter was used where the equation needed radius, so the tiering overall should be as it was before

Second problem: The above thread's premise of having everyone scale to 8-A doesn't make any sense, Eugeo's Sword Form destroys something that Kirito can't even scratch and directly clashes with Quinella's sacred arts, along with Kirito himself needing amps from Incarnation and Sword Skills to do anything against Quinella just armed with a sword. There's no reason for them to scale that high in terms of pure physicals, outside of Sword Form Eugeo.

Third Problem: Kirito is comatose in the leadup to War of the Underworld, and there's no reason for him to be stronger than before. He doesn't even really use Incarnation as a base state, so he should just be the same with the new abilities he displays.

That's all I have to really say

 

[CurrySenpai]

I was moreso going off the basis of Kirito's Incarnation becoming permanent after the battle with Quinella (IDK where the statement of he leveled up comes from as it was there before I was even on the wiki) but I don't think it's necessarily wrong to assume he did level up from the fight. We see this same effect in Unital Ring after the AH fight where Kirito mentions that everyone involved leveled up even if they didn't necessarily kill or deal the final blow to AH.

So just being there in the Quinella fight would necessarily be enough to level up stuff like their Underworld Stats, not to mention just because Kirito went comatose doesn't mean he deleveled or anything.

 

[DMUA]

I was moreso going off the basis of Kirito's Incarnation becoming permanent after the battle with Quinella

This isn't really a thing (especially in the anime where they explicitly highlight uses of incarnation on that level via the yellow eyes, which I think only show up again when he's fighting Gabriel)

Either way there's not much evidence to them being particularly stronger but having "probably stronger" on the page isn't that big a deal

 

[CurrySenpai]

Either way there's not much evidence to them being particularly stronger but having "probably stronger" on the page isn't that big a deal

I mean I think the quote I sent is enough evidence IMO, we could just add it to the page as some much-needed justification. He directly says his Object Control Authority is 129 because they defeated the Abyssal Horror and while Kirito didn't kill off Quinella he did deal significant damage and was there physically for her defeat.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Besides that though agree with the other stuff since my calc was wring

 

[Dalesean027]

Bruh damn rip this verse has had so many major downgrades over the past year or two

 

[CurrySenpai]

Bruh damn rip this verse has had so many major downgrades over the past year or two

This is less a downgrade and moreso correcting some things.

 

[Dalesean027]

This is less a downgrade and moreso correcting some things.

Fair yeah but geez, I miss 4-B Kirito

 

[CurrySenpai]

I miss 4-B Kirito

Raw Kino Swag

 

[DMUA]

Fair yeah but geez, I miss 4-B Kirito

I will observe your actions with hatred, young one

 

[RitsuØ1]

I will observe your actions with hatred, young one

Cope + Ratio, cherry nitpicker.

Either way, This should work.

 

[Smashtwig]

This actually makes sense to me, agree sure

 

[Kaantantr]

Minor interjection about the third point.

Third Problem: Kirito is comatose in the leadup to War of the Underworld, and there's no reason for him to be stronger than before. He doesn't even really use Incarnation as a base state, so he should just be the same with the new abilities he displays.

Post Quinella battle, until the wake up, Kirito is literally in a constant state of perpetual incarnation, which is the reason why he does not wake up. He wishes to have "never existed", so his Incarnation is basically keeping him in his Veggierito state. He also later explains how during this state, he was more "one with the ways of the world", which is why he has a much better understanding of Incarnation when he wakes up.

As for when he wakes up, his powers are actively boosted by the hardware. Higa connected his Fluctlight directly into the Main Visualizer in hopes of speeding up his recovery when he was connecting the fluctlights of the girls and Eugeo to him. He talks about how he feels "different" during this period when he starts flying off with Asuna after defeating PoH when mentioning he somehow knows where exactly Alice and Subti are in the world (it's because he is directly connected to the Main Visualizer through an exclusive connection during those moments).

---

As for another minor correction, the Object Control Authority does not necessarily make you more powerful and beyond a certain point, we have no reason to believe it factors into anything at all. It only allows you to wield higher quality weapons and that too is not an endless scale, and arguable whether it even matters by the time Unital Ring comes around where every regular cop has an Anti-Incarnation pistol in their holster with basic usability for example.

He directly says his Object Control Authority is 129 because they defeated the Abyssal Horror

Defeating the Abyssal Horror is a minuscule detail here. He literally lived in this world for 170+ years. If Object Control Authority functions anything like the EXP scaling in Seed based games, I would not be surprised if Kirito is basically getting 1EXP from everything by this point. You get diminishing returns from opponents below your level to the point you receive nothing but a token. That's also why they jumped a lot when defeating Goblins at the beginning of Alicization, and barely any meaningful changes after that.

---

This isn't really a thing (especially in the anime where they explicitly highlight uses of incarnation on that level via the yellow eyes, which I think only show up again when he's fighting Gabriel)

Never use the Piss Eyes of the Anime as reference material. Even the Anime no longer knows what they are using it for, other than "hype moment". Countless times they gave him Piss Eyes when he didn't even use any form of Incarnation, sometimes they give him the eyes, but then they forget and remove it in the very next cut, sometimes they never give him the eyes at all, when he is supposed to be using the strongest forms of Incarnation.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Never use the Piss Eyes of the Anime as reference material.

BRO IM DEAD PISS EYES LMAO.

Thanks for coming in and clarifying some things though.

Besides that are you still fine with 8-A Kirito due to scaling from Quinella or nah cause you were there in the original thread.

 

[Kaantantr]

I do not remember the exact talks that were had, but as long as Kirito is below Quinella (since he lost to her), all should be fine from my perspective.

 

[DMUA]

Post Quinella battle, until the wake up, Kirito is literally in a constant state of perpetual incarnation, which is the reason why he does not wake up. He wishes to have "never existed", so his Incarnation is basically keeping him in his Veggierito state. He also later explains how during this state, he was more "one with the ways of the world", which is why he has a much better understanding of Incarnation when he wakes up.

I just figured he got fried outright, but that does make sense.

Never use the Piss Eyes of the Anime as reference material. Even the Anime no longer knows what they are using it for, other than "hype moment". Countless times they gave him Piss Eyes when he didn't even use any form of Incarnation, sometimes they give him the eyes, but then they forget and remove it in the very next cut, sometimes they never give him the eyes at all, when he is supposed to be using the strongest forms of Incarnation.

I did forget we were talking about A1 didn't I

Besides that are you still fine with 8-A Kirito due to scaling from Quinella or nah cause you were there in the original thread.

That just shouldn't be 8-A with the 8-B calc being downgraded and her sacred arts being something that doesn't scale to her physicals, on top of Kirito needing to boost himself with incarnation and sword skills to give her major wounds

 

[CurrySenpai]

That just shouldn't be 8-A with the 8-B calc being downgraded and her sacred arts being something that doesn't scale to her physicals, on top of Kirito needing to boost himself with incarnation and sword skills to give her major wounds

Well, it doesn't need to scale to her physicals she physically combats Swordgeo, clashes directly with him, and even survives getting her arm lobbed off by him.

On top of that Kaantantr already mentioned he was connected to the Main Visualizer for WoU.

 

[DMUA]

Well, it doesn't need to scale to her physicals she physically combats Swordgeo, clashes directly with him, and even survives getting her arm lobbed off by him.

On top of that Kaantantr already mentioned he was connected to the Main Visualizer for WoU.

Her weapon outright disintegrates from the clash, on top of the fact that, again, she's using sacred arts here.

Having her arm get sawed off is the direct opposite of durability, surviving a non lethal blow that completely removes a part of your body isn't a feat

 

[CurrySenpai]

Dang, well I got nothing else to say then. You can decide what happens from here.

 

[DMUA]

I'll make the edits tomorrow if nothing else gets brought up

 

[DMUA]

made the edits

 

[RitsuØ1]

I'll make the edits tomorrow if nothing else gets brought up

Can we use the old 8-C calc instead? I'm pretty sure it's still useable and is higher up into 8-C.

 

[DMUA]

That doesn't really scale to physicals but thank you for digging it up

 

[DMUA]

actually yeah I made a mishap on the +, come to think of it

better edit that out

 

[RitsuØ1]

That doesn't really scale to physicals but thank you for digging it up

Ugh... Sure thing. For once, IG we can end on a nice-end, perhaps.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Wait is there any reason it’s High 8-C for Quinella and Kirito with Incarnation

 

[DMUA]

Quinella can defuse 1.4 ton attacks by just sighing, which is why that was the rating before 8-A

 

[CurrySenpai]

Quinella can defuse 1.4 ton attacks by just sighing, which is why that was the rating before 8-A

Ah okay. Thanks.