Swamp Thing Revision / Respect Thread

[Matthew_Schroeder]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Swamp_Thing

This profile is completely bare. This is a problem.

So I decided to read through various issues, respect threads and discussions about Swamp Thing to better gauge his powers and feats.

Gonna be posting them here:

To first understand how powerful Swamp Thing is, we need to understand what The Green is and how the elemental forces function in the series' cosmology.

Putting simply, The Green is a metaphysical elemental realm connected to all plant life on Earth, the Universe, and Creation as a whole, inhabitted by the collective mind of the Parliament of Trees. Swamp Thing is The Green's Elemental, a being who wields and embodies its power to protect it against various threats.





Of course, if there is a Green connected to all plant life in existence, there must also be other realms. And indeed, there is The Red which is connected to all Animal Life in the Multiverse, The Clear connected to all aquatic life in the Multiverse, The Grey which is connected to all fungal life in the Multiverse, and The Rot, connected to the death of all life in the Multiverse. There are even realms which exist beyond The Green. This will return later.


Naturally, in a story which focus so much on Elemental Forces and realms, the Four Elements; Earth, Water, Fire and Air would come into play. They are defined as composing all creation:


Now that this has been established, let's talk about feats.

Swamp Thing's main power is his Regenerationn. It is simply one of the most impressive in fiction. Despite being generally fairly weak in durability, Swamp Thing has reformed from being riddled with bullets, exploded, burnt, dismembered, and more. If his whole body is disintegrated on the most minuscule level, his astral form can simply embody other plant life, on Earth, or on other planets. He has resisted being reduced to wavelengths / electromagnetic particles, having his soul destroyed, and most impressive of all, which proves his High-Godly Regenerationn, survived the Anti-Monitor's Antimatter Wave when the entity was at the peak of it's power, and destroyed the entire multiverse.


How does he do it? Simply put, Swamp-Thing will regenerate as long as The Green exists. So unless you can erase a metaphysical realm connected to all reality, and that was completely unaffected by the destruction of the infinite Pre-Crisis Multiverse, and has even been shown to be connected to other Multiverses (Lucifer's Multiverse in the Vertigo Series), good luck killing Swamp Thing.

This also means that Pre-Crisis Feats for Swamp Things are still usable, as he wasn't retconned, but simply regenerated in the new Universe after the reboot. DC Dark Characters were all practically unchanged anyway after Crisis, so it hardly matters. The Swamp Thing comic simply continued as if the Crisis never happened.

Swamp-Thing faces against a (Admittedly weakened from a Kryptonite Plant) Pre-Crisis Superman, regenerates from all his attacks, claims that Superman cannot defeat him, and easily overpowered him mentally:







Swamp-Thing has both one-shot Captain Atom and shown dominance over him.




Faces against the Demon Anton Arcane, and defeats him in combat. How powerful is Anton? To put it simply, The Monitor himself compared his strength to Trigon's and The Spectre's. So Universal+ at least:








Outclasses John Byrne-Era Superman by easily attacking at Lightspeed:


While reduced to a form of Electromagnetic Particles, flew through a galaxy at MFTL+ speeds.


By manipulating the Quantum-String Vibrations that make up everything, Swamp-Thing takes Metron through The Green, Heaven and into The Source:






Hell itself doesn't wish to challenge Swamp Thing (However, Lucifer Morningstar had abandoned it by that point):


At his strongest, Swamp Thing embodies the Four Elements and is the whole world:





This one's weird, like a lot of Alan Moore stuff... When Abby (Swamp Thing's love interest) had her perception of reality heightened to Swamp Thing's level and had some form of "cosmic sex" with him, she described it as being one with the entire universe:


Finally, we reach what is Swamp Thing's most impressive feat by far. Namely, warping and remaking all of The Gree in his image with a gesture:





Why is this not an Outlier? Well, firstly, Post-Flashpoint Swamp Thing has a feat of a similar level where he absorbs all of The Green into him.

Secondly, this feat happened when Allec Holland (The human who became the elemental) and Swamp Thing were separated, and the later was simply an all-powerful monster. As repeatedly explained in the storyline, Allec's greatest weakness is his humanity and consciousness, which are constantly limiting his own powers. Swamp Thing has the potential to perform Multiversal level+ Feats, but never does due to mental blocks.





Final Tally:

Attack Potency: At least Universe level+ (Is one with the four elements that make up the universe. Has one-shot The Atom. The lords of hell are afraid of Swamp Thing's power. Defeated Anton Arcane, who's power was stated by The Monitor to be comparable to Trigon's and The Spectre's), Multiverse level+ at full power (Capable of easily warping the entirety of The Green, though mentally blocks himself to far lower levels)

Speed: At least Lightspeed Movement Speed, MFTL+ Travel Speed

Durability: Unknow, capable of Regenerating from Multiversal+ Attacks (Regenerated from The Anti-Monitor's Multiversal-wiping attack. As long as The Green exist, Swamp Thing can regenerate from absolutely any level of destruction, making him nearly impossible to be killed)

And that about wraps things up.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

All of this is Base Swamp Thing.

I'll cover God Swamp Thing and Post-Flashpoint Swamp Thing later. Going to sleep now.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Looks pretty lit for Base Swamp Thing. ^^;

 

[Promestein]

Seems fine, save for the durability? Which should just be like "Unknown, though its Regenerationn allowed it to regenerate after the Anti-Monitor wiped out the multiverse". Though if the regen is based on the Green, would that really be High-Godly and not Type 8 immortality?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Prom. There are a good few times in which they can overlap. For example, some SMT characters. This would be one of those times.

 

[Cropfist]

Looks fine.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It is Regenerationn indeed. The same mechanic that makes him regrow his head or an arm regenerates him if his entire multiverse is blown up.

Also, I was so tired yesterday night that I forgot to post Swamp Thing's best feat.

Namely, that The Goddamn Batma states Swamp Thing to be an unbeatable God he would never defeat, even with prep:

 

[Antvasima]

Well, resisting an extremely dispersed part of the Anti-Monitor's multiverse-destroying power is not the same as Multiverse level+ durability. We should probably simply give a note regarding how high his Regenerationn is, and place the durability as Unknown.

I am also very uncertain about any power-scaling from the Spectre and Trigon, given DC Comics' extreme power level inconsistency from writer to writer.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It happened during Crisis on Infinite Earths, Antvasima, where the former at full Power fought The Anti-Monitor. It's Universal+.

And Swamp Thing can regenerate from Multiversal+ attacks cause The Green was A-Okay after the Pre-Crisis Multiverse got obliterated.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay then. Although Supergirl also almost managed to beat the Anti-Monitor during the Crisis, despite that it made absolutely no sense whatsoever. I would rather that we go by Swamp Thing's own feats instead of power-scaling.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

So being one with the universe, controlling the forces that make-up creation, one-shotting The Atom?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

ST's repeated Universal+ and crazy regen showings all seem pretty legit, from the looks of it. I'd forgotten about a lot of these, actually.

 

[Antvasima]

Being one with the universe, and controlling the forces that make up creation are fine to scale from.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I was researching on New 52 Swamp Thing, reading through comics...

And I kinda almost had a stroke when I saw Multiversal+ Zatanna and High 2-A or 1-A Swamp Thing.

Oh well, at least both characters were explicitly Amped in the storyline.

I will post feats for Post-Flashpoint later.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Okay, time to do Post-Flashpoint Swamp Thing.

Holds complete control over The Earth:


Regenerates from a possessed Zatanna FAR stronger than the real one:


Instantly regenerates after having his connection to the Green sealed and his entire body erased by the Parliament of Machines. He later easily defeats the Machine Queen, the Parliament's equivalent of Swamp Thing:





States superiority over Aquaman:


Easily defeats Aquaman in combat:





Endures an attack from, and reacts to Wonder Woman's attacks:




Easily breaks free from a seal that was holding Zatanna, among other Justice League Dark Members:


When surrounded by a plant-armor created by Swamp Thing, the human Capucine can fight Etrigan. Swamp Thing himself can easily stomp him:




The Rot is The Green's counterpart, with its Parliment of Decay trying to destroy all life on Earth. In an evil future, they actually succeeded, defeating all heroes and zombifying them. As Swamp Thing fights and defeated The Rot, this easily scales to him:




Some notable feats against the zombie heroes (Who still have all their powers) are cutting through Rotling Starro and reacting to Rotling Kid Flash's attacks:





Creates vines that hold himself and the Justice League Dark from being sucked by a spatial-temporal cross-universal Blackhole (Yeah, I know...):


Final Tally:

Attack Potency: Dwarf Star level (Far above Zatanna. Capable of fighting against The Rot, who could defeat and possess all of Earth's superheroes)

Speed: At least FTL Combat Speed (Fought against and reacted to a furious Wonder Woman's attacks)

These are the powers of Base Swamp Thing. He has a second form which is absolutely ridiculous, and I will dedicate an entire Post to it.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

This is one for Post-Flashpoint Base Swamp Thing right?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yes ^^

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Hmmm, let's see. No sure where the thing of the original stuff you had earlier is for ST at but i presume that to be maybe Pre and Post Crisis ST? Those that were finally discussed above sound good to me, now that i realize i didn't quite answer to that part. ^^;

This one seems about alright-ish for his Post-Flashpoint one. But it'll be affected depending how the others see this one.

Definitely looking forward to what his Second Form and God forms are like.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The previous one would be classified as "Vertigo"

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Oh okay, got it. From the sounds of this, we're pretty much looking at him having 4 keys at least....right?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Two profiles would be best, since Post-Flashpoint has a very different origin.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Fair enough

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Now it's time to cover God Swamp Thing:

God-Thing was a transformation that ocurred when Swamp-Thing first obtained control of all four elements, but simultaneously lost most of his humanity becoming cold and distant. He turned the whole world into a distopia where he ruled as God.

The Presence / The Voice itself acted, sending it's manifestation, The Word, to stop Swamp Thing, for it viewed him as a potential thread. The Word, essentially, is the embodiment of God's Authority.

The Word's Profile

The Word is older than time itself, as it was born as creation itself was forming. It's the older, and far more powerful brother of The Spectre as well, so it logically scales to Spectre's 2-A feats. God-Thing is still more powerful than him, though it is implied it would have been a close fight. Due to plot reasons and interference, that never happens.

As the story progresses, Swamp Thing finally reaches the pinnacle of his being as God, on issue #171, and we get some feats / statements. Because of the nature of the issue, I'll pretty much post 80% of it here, and have to do some explanations.

He obtains Omnipresence, becoming one not just with plant life, but with absolutely everything:









And then... Things become weird. Do you remember how, in my first post, I showed a scan stating that there are worldsbeyond The Green, beyond the Parliaments ?

Well, now that Swamp Thing has become God, he transcended to this level. Meet the Parliament of Worlds:





The Parliament of Words is a metaphysical, Higher-Dimensional group composed of the Embodiments of Planets. Not literal planets, but of beings who have reached global consciousness, becoming one with every living being on their realm and transcending the physical universe. Of course, none of this has any material basis, and is a purely conceptual realm.


As evidence, the place in which Swamp Thing meets with the Parliament is not their true location. That is never shown. Instead, it is simply a 4th Dimensional Map designed specifically to assist Allec Holland into returning to the physical Earth. The Parliament of Worlds are logically beyond the whole multiverse and the metaphysical parliaments connected to said multiverse.

With his newfound perspective, Swamp Thing cannot desire to erase humans anymore, because he understands the thoughts, souls, struggles and emotions of every one of them, and knows that even the worst human has both hope and the potential of good buried within. Swamp-Thing and Allec Holland split into two beings, with the former returning to the Earth and eventually becoming one with The Green, and the later returning to his human life. The Swamp-God is no more.




As God Swamp-Thing ceases to be, we get a metaphorical narration, which implies that Swamp-Thing is the supreme God.


Final Tally:

Attack Potency: High Multiverse level+ (Even in an incomplete state, was stronger than The Word. Transcends the physical multiverse, time, and the metaphysical realities, existing in a Higher-Dimension)

Speed: Immeasurable

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

NOICE.

 

[Antvasima]

@Matthew I think that your reasoning seems to make sense.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Thank you, Ant.

 

[Antvasima]

No problem.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I forgot a feat for Post-Flashpoint Swamp Thing. It's an outlier for Base Swamp Thing, but it's worth mentioning. And I also need to explain some context to better explain Post-Flashpoint Swamp Thing's second form:

In Justice League Dark, there are these two... things called the House of Mysteries and the House of Secret. Two interdimensional houses which travel through time and space and limbo.





As weird as it is, they have evil human-like Embodiments.




They are evil and act as the villains for the series' Second Annual. Eventually, the two merge and become the House of Wonders.


Alongside Deadman, Swamp Thing manages to restrain it temporarily:


Why is this impressive? Well, because when the House of Wonders was destroyed through a temporal incantation John Constantine performed by sacrificing his life, they caused a disturbance in the fabric of space-time across the multiverse, and the Justice League Dark is send to various different dimensions across time and space.




For instance, Zatanna was trapped in a Dreamlike Timeless place at the center of creation. She could have been there for 10, or 1000, or even 1 million years, or perhaps not even a second. In this realm, she encountered the World Tree, Yggdrasil, from who's roots all creation spawns. The World Tree is also The Green's origin (Worth pointing out that The World Tree also appears in Lucifer, where it is also the center-point of all creation, and the villain Fenris planned to destroy it's roots to cause all existence to collapse).





Meanwhile, Swamp Thing, Nightmare Nurse, Frankenstein and Andrew Bennet were thrown into the end of all time, after the entire Multiverse had become a void of nothingness.





Since the entire Multiverse was long gone, there was also no more Green, and so Swamp Thing began to die... But soon they learn that The Green hadn't destroyed. To avoid collapsing, it focused all of itself within a single flower. Swamp Thing then absorbs the entirety of The Green into himself.




The next post will show what feats he has in his The Green Absorbed Form.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Continuing from where we left off, we have to cover what happened to the rest of the group.

Deadman, Madame Xanadu and Black Orchid end up in the "Realm of Now", a dimension fully unaffected by the Multiversal Temporal Collapse. It is a world which completely transcends time, where very moment, every action, every thought spans both infinity and eternity. It is clearly a 5th Dimensional Realm.






There is a realm adjacent to the "Realm of Now", incomprehensible to even then, called the "Beyond-Beyond". It holds a dark entity within it. And when Madame Xanadu introduces time to the Realm of Now to show its inhabitants what's it like, she causes a disturbance in the reality and the imprisoned entity releases itself, engulfing the Realm of Now in it's darkness. 6th Dimensional since the realm is incomprehensible to 5D beings.




Luckly for the heroes, they are all saved by The World Tree, which pulls them across the Multiverse and rebuilds the House of Mystery. The team, now complete, travels to the Heart of Chronos, the center of all time... Where they are attacked by the "Time-Gremlins", black creatures which will devour time and cause it to collapse.


Bonus Feat for Zatanna then happens: She, who thanks to being trapped by countless eons in a timeless place, and spending all her "time" there weaving spells, had become far stronger than ever before (Comic says her power increased a thousandfold, but comic writers can never do linear progression through numbers, so whatever).

With her newfound might, she attacked the creatures, while simultaneously repairing all the flaws and cracks in the Multiverse's time. However, the Time-Gremlins regenerated instantly and the Multiverse went back to collapsing immediately, due to their being a higher power at play doing it.




The team then fights the Time-Gremlins, which are described as being the "Thought-forms of a larger consciousness" and "Being composed of a darkness deeper than eternity, a substance beyond life and death". The entire team proves ineffective against them, and I assume the only reason they don't die instantly is through PIS. Swamp Thing, however, proves capable of erasing their existences. Since he absorbed The Green, it isn't really an outlier.





In desperation, since the number of Time-Gremlins were infinite, and the multiverse was about to cease to be, Zatanna, Madame Xanadu and Nightmare Nurse seal all of time in the multiverse forever, leaving it in stasis.




As the minions are now rendered useless, the real entity behind the scenes appears: Pralaya, the Embodiment of The Void, of nothingness. A dark goddess which exists beyond all creation, and who's desire is to bring all things back to the Cosmic Sleep from hence they came. It's physical appearance is too merely a lower-dimensional projection, much like her Gremlins.





With her cosmic powers, she erases all of the Justice League Dark, all except for one: John Constantine, who now existed as a temporal paradox since time ceased to be. Through his spiritual connection with Zatanna, he brings her back. And The Swamp Thing? It simply regenerates, even though it, his soul AND The Green had all been wiped out from being completely. All through attacks performed by a Higher-Dimensional Being... This is literally the most absurd Regenerationn Feat I've seen in fiction.




But we have no time to linger on this, because Pralaya, now without opposition, has destroyed Every Single Direction of Space and Time.

Wait, what?


Yeah, you heard that right. Pralaya destroyed all axis of space and time after having destroyed the entire Multiverse and the 5th Dimensional Realm of Now. I don't wish to discuss if this feat is High 1-C, 1-B or High 1-B now, but it happened.

And when all seems lost, Zatanna and John Constantine put their plan in motion: Swamp Thing uses The Green to bring about the powers of the World Tree, effectively destroying Pralaya forever in the process and restoring all creation to it's balance.






/thread

This is all folks. Wrap your brains around these Multiversal and Higher-Dimensional feats. Will discuss my own opinions on their power after I return from sleeping.

Goodnight.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that the above feats seem reliable.

 

[EgyptianGodRaw]

i think even pralaya should get a new profile

 

[Antvasima]

That might be an idea, yes.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Before I show you all my take on what level of Tier 1 Pralaya is, would having 2-A Amped Zatanna be fine? After she died and came back alongside the Multiverse she became normal in power again.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, was it an infinite multiverse, or just 52 universes?

 

[EgyptianGodRaw]

She should be atleast 1B or high 1B considering the fact she was able to devour the entire creation several times . She is basically an avatar of overvoid that predates existence .

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Antvasima

I dunno, but apparently from what I've been told, the New 52 Multiverse seems to be treated as infinite.

@EgyptianGodRaw

Yeah, she is described as being a Spawn of the Overvoid and Older than God...

But those details are absolutely ridiculous and incoherent with the larger DC Mythos. I ignored them.

 

[EgyptianGodRaw]

Agreed

I was referring to this sca btw . She refers to herself embodying the nothingness from which existence came from

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I personally believe that Pralaya's feat is a High 1-B one, as in another DC Dark New 52 storyline, namely Deadman's Origin Story, Creation was defined as contained infinite Spatial Dimensions. I believe it's fair to apply the cosmology of Deadman's Origin Story to a Comic with him as a constant character, specially when both comics began publication at the same time.

In his origin story, after Boston Brand is assassinated, he is taken by the Goddess Rama Kushna and imbued with powers, so he will be capable of atoning for his sins by bettering the lives of others. Later, we see that she is a far shadier character, as is basically just using Deadman for her own entertainment.




To quote Kushna herself: "There are innumerable dimensions. This one exists just two steps removed from your own. But you no more understand it than a mosquito understands the bottom of the ocean. You stand upon a platform composed of solid gravity. Time in this place is no longer an abstract--it is a malleable force that plugs gaps in the universal fabric."

This scan has been used before in this wiki, by a certain individual, and it's claims were instantly rejected. It's understandable, the scan was delivered out-of-context alongside many other scans from storylines dozens of years apart, and being used as evidence that everyone and their mom in DC is High 1-B. So let's not do that, instead, let's talk about it fairly.

Firstly, Rama Kushna's dimension is a Higher-Existence incomprehensible by humans, and things such as Gravity and Time that are cosmic forces in our universe, are tangible things that can be wielded to make objects and locations in her dimension. That would imply that they are in a 4th Dimensional Universe. I was unsure, so I read the whole storyline.

In his storyline, Deadman becomes unsure about what if he's doing is right, and eventually becomes face to face with another divine being, who had been "opposing" Rama Kushna: Lucifer Morningstar.

Well, actually "Lucifer, The Son Of Morning", and his design is 100% different, but the character origin is the same (Archangel who fell from Heaven by choice). I don't think we can use the weird appearances of Lucifer in the New 52 and apply it to Vertigo, though. They are far too different in other regards.

Regardless, he and Deadman meet and have a conversation about life, the universe, God and fate.





Lucifer talks about how Three-Dimensional existences are predetermined, and how fate is a tapestry printed on the Space-Time Continuum. He also says that Rama Kushna already knows all the answers of the universe due to being a higher being, and is merely using Deadman to find a new question.

This, combined with cosmological forces like Gravity and Time being malleable in Kushna's dimension, make it clear that she is a 4th-Dimensional Entity and that she was talking about Higher Spatial Dimensions.

If this is accepted, this means that Pralaya is High 1-B, and that Green Absorbed Swamp Thing is High 1-B with The World Tree. Normally he'd only be At least 2-A due to killing the Time Gremlins.

Considering how High-Level both Pralaya and The World Tree were treated in the storyline, I don't think this would scale to anyone, not even Cosmic Armor Superman and the Monitors.

 

[EgyptianGodRaw]

Nice .

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the new 52 multiverse only has 52 universes accirding to Multiversity, which is 2-C.

Unlike Vertigo, DC Comics proper is far more contradictory, so I am uncertain if we can scale between different storylines and writers, even if they happen close to each other.

Please make an effort to coherently and concisely justify this suggested ranking again. I am tired, and on vacation. Thank you.