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Ultima_Reality

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So, Supernatural is finally over, save for an epilogue that comes out in two days. Might as well get to work on it.

Castiel

First of all, Castiel's weakened state being only "possibly 7-C" is pretty damn weird, given how he is pretty consistently portrayed as still being superior to regular angels, such as in the following occasions:


So, yeah, given all of the above, Weakened Seraph Castiel should just be a solid 7-C, and his Full Power key should preferably reflect that, given the former is a result of Castiel having a good part of his grace used up to power Metatron's spell, combined with the fall from Heaven mangling his wings. Furthermore, his profile should also account for the time where he was empowered by 50,000 human souls, since he stayed that way for all of Season 6, before those were presumably lost alongside the souls he absorbed from Purgatory.

As an aside, I've been thinking if he could also get an "At least 3-B, possibly 3-A" high-end for when he had Heaven's Weaponry in his possession, given how their combined power allowed him to intimidate Raphael, and he was convinced that the weapons could kill him right where he stood. Of course, the writers genuinely forgot about this storyline and never brought it up again, so the weapons themselves would be optional equipment, at the very best, if at all.

The next part is a bit longer and requires a slightly more extensive explanation on the matter, so, bear with me here.

Multiple times throughout the series, it is noted that Castiel's human vessel, Jimmy Novak, is absurdly resilient and can house celestial entities for far, far longer than the average person. For instance, it could even hold Lucifer within itself for months on end with barely any adverse effects, whereas a major plot-point in Lucifer appearances, both in Season 5 and Season 12, was that his essence was too much for most of his vessels to handle, which caused them to degrade after a while, hence why he needed his True Vessel (In this case, Sam) to use his real power as well.

For comparision, Lucifer's first vessel was already degrading severely shortly after he was possessed, and it only lasted for as long as it did thanks to Lucifer drinking gallons of demon blood to keep it somewhat stable. Most of the other humans whom he possessed ended up the same way in no time, too, and the last one, Vince, had already fully broken down after a month.

In spite of that, the power of all the souls in Purgatory is still explicitly noted to be far too much for Castiel's vessel to handle, and it already in the process of melting down after a few days, with both Death and Balthazar noting that it was eventually going to explode and take a chunk of the Earth with it:

http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/6.21_Let_It_Bleed_(Transcript)

BALTHAZAR: Are you in flagrante with the King of Hades?

CASTIEL: Of course not.

BALTHAZAR: (laughs) Always were such a terrible liar. So it's true. Alright then, why?

CASTIEL: It's a means to an end. Balthazar, you understand that.

BALTHAZAR: Oh, absolutely. But what's the end here exactly? You know, raid Purgatory, snatch up all the souls?

CASTIEL: Win the war.

BALTHAZAR: And I can only assume that you'd be the vessel, correct? Suck up all those souls into yourself? All that power?

CASTIEL: It's the only way.

BALTHAZAR: Or too much juice for you, in which case you explode, taking a substantial chunk of the planet along with you.

http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/7.01_Meet_the_New_Boss_(Transcript)

DEATH:
Annoying little protozoa, aren't they? "God"? You look awfully like a mutated angel to me. Your vessel's melting. You're going to explode.

CASTIEL:
No, I'm not. When I've finished my work, I'll repair myself.

DEATH:
You think you can because you think you're simply under the weight of all those souls, yes? But that's not the worst problem. There are things much older than souls in Purgatory, and you gulped those in, too.

Of course, the Leviathans being inside of Castiel didn't exactly make things much better, either, but given how his vessel immediately repairs itself after all of Purgatory's souls are taken out of it, as well as what Death says, it's safe to say that the bulk of the damage was due to them, instead of the Leviathans.

Due to that, I'd say it's pretty reasonable to hold that God Castiel is definitely stronger than Lucifer, and likely Michael as well, given how smiting an Archangel with a snap of fingers is something far, far above what either of them have ever done, and the feat itself was only replicated when Lucifer was supercharged by Jack's grace. On the other hand, even Alternate Michael still had to use an Archangel Blade to kill Gabriel, despite the obvious power difference between them, and the fact Gabriel was very weakened after years of being tortured by Asmodeus and having chunks of his grace stolen.

This means Castiel should just get a solid 3-A rating, which would also support him stating that he could destroy Hell if he wanted. All in all, his profile will look somewhat like this:

Town level (According to Uriel, he and Castiel could have obliterated a town. An angel's mere cries of pain can produce ripple effects of strange incidents; Samandriel, a seemingly lesser angel, created destructive tornadoes across Nabraska while being tortured by Crowley. Should be superior to weak angels such as Hael, and could overpower Zachariah's men even after falling from Heaven) | Town level (Can easily overpower groups of regular angels such as Duma and her henchmen, and was capable of outmatching Eremiel in a fight and throwing him across a room. Fought against, and defeated Kabaiel, a Grigori, and could manhandle his Apocalypse World counterpart without effort) | Town level (Far more powerful than his weakened self, possessing his complete grace alongside unbroken wings), far higher when empowered by souls (Strengthened himself with 50,000 Human Souls as part of a deal with Crowley, each of which was compared to a nuclear reactor. Could briefly banish Raphael from Heaven with a blast of white light, though he was still no match for the Archangel in direct combat). At least Multi-Galaxy level, possibly Universe level with Heaven's Weaponry (Gained possession of all the weapons of Heaven, whose collective power was enough to strike fear in Raphael and cause him to flee) | Universe level (Obliterated Raphael with a snap of fingers, and claimed to be capable of destroying Hell if he so desired. The sheer power of the souls absorbed by him was causing his vessel to rapidly melt over a span of days, whereas it was later shown to be able to hold even beings as powerful as Lucifer for months before starting to show negligible signs of decay)

Key: Regular Angel | Seraphim (Weakened / Season 10-15) | Seraphim (Full Power / Season 6-8) | Souls of Purgatory Absorbed

Death Downgrades

Alright, so, with the last few episodes, and some beforehand, it's been made abundantly clear that Death being remotely comparable to God and Amara is blatantly untrue, and has been contradicted multiple times over. For example, Death has an alternate counterpart in the Apocalypse World, which was one of the several universes that Chuck created out of boredom, and later destroyed alongside every other:

http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/14.10_Nihilism_(transcript)

JACK: Sam, who are you talking to?

SAM: You can't see her?

MICHAEL: I can. You know, in my world, we locked Death away and enslaved the reapers.

VIOLET: Lovely. Well, just look at you now.

Billie was also shown to be afraid of The Empty in spite of her position as the New Death, and she is ultimately absorbed by it alongside Castiel. The Empty, in turn, is explicitly said to be weaker than God and Amara, and the former could actually set up barriers around Earth that prevented it from manifesting there, unless it was directly summoned.

Then there is how the third Death was killed by Lucifer with a snap of fingers. Given how he was newly resurrected by Chuck and could easily outmaneuver and then knock back Michael with a casual blast, as well as how it contradicts pretty much every statement comparing Death to the rest of creation in the series, it's pretty obvious that he was amplified by God at the time.

So, if anything, Death should be downgraded to 3-A by virtue of being superior to the Archangels and God Castiel, and this would naturally affect Billie's profile too. His scythe being supposedly able to kill God should just be treated as extremely potent Death Manipulation, and it has already been shown to be able to kill him and mortally wound Billie anyway, so it's fairly consistent.

Chuck and Amara Upgrades

As shown above, both God and The Darkness are directly stated to be superior to The Empty in raw power, the latter being the ruler and personification of the void of nothingness that predates and encompasses the whole universe, alongside all of the alternate timelines which Chuck created over time. That alone should be enough for them to be upgraded to 2-C.

Additionally, they are both the personifications of Being and Nothingness, Creation and Destruction respectively, and are the fundamental pillars which sustain all of existence, which enters a state of collapse if one of them is destroyed or mortally wounded, and when Jack absorbs God's essence, he describes himself as being everywhere in creation. Chuck also says that he exists "everywhere and nowhere, to the edge of the universe and beyond".

I don't see much reason for this nature of theirs to apply only to the main universe, given how it isn't particularly special aside from being Chuck's favorite story and the first one he ever created, so them scaling to the full multiverse of Supernatural is pretty much a given. The only argument one could make against that is how Chuck took weeks to fully destroy all of the alternate realities which he created, though the fact he attributes that to some being more complex than others and thus requiring more focus to be destroyed would render that point moot, in my opinion, at least.

Billie also states that the individual universes only exist in God's absence due to him writing himself into their framework, which is also the reason for why he will eventually die at the end of time as well:

http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/15.12_Galaxy_Brain_(transcript)

CAS: I don’t understand. Why would God write the blueprint to his own death?

BILLIE: He didn’t. The books write themselves.

[BILLIE turns back to SAM and DEAN.]

BILLIE: After God made the world, he couldn’t stop. He wanted more. But he needed to create a perfect harmony… a Swiss watch, so this world could keep tick, tick, ticking in his absence. He had no choice but to build himself into the framework. It’s his only weakness.

By the way, he should also get a second key, since he convinced Amara to merge with him and enter a state of balance, personifying both the Light and the Darkness.

Powers Additions + New Key for Jack

As it turns out, Jack being turned into a living bomb in order to kill God and Amara and then detonating inside The Empty gave him the ability to absorb energy of all kinds. Like I mentioned above, being in God's presence for extended amounts of time caused him to absorb the bulk of his power, before he took away his remaining essence and turned him into a powerless human.

Naturally, that'd give him Passive Absorption, as well as another key that scales to whatever tier God ends up as, since he is the new supreme being and goes on to say that Amara exists in a state of harmony within him as well.

Miscellaneous Revisions

Considering Weakened Seraph Castiel will just scale above regular angels, Demons who have been shown as capable of overpowering him in this state get to scale to them as well. Ardat could beat him up and pin him to a wall after some time, and this would scale to Demons who would logically be stronger than her, such as Knights of Hell like Abaddon and Dean.

Sam and Dean should also get Supernatural Luck, given how The Heroes' Journey establishes that their blatant Plot Armor is actually a canon part of the series, and a direct result of Chuck aiding them on their efforts, as they are the main protagonists and heroes of his story. This means they're pretty much completely immune to daily inconveniences that would slow down the plot, like sickness, and allows them to competently do things that are much more complicated for side-characters, such as lock-picking.

It also explains why every supernatural entity that would normally be able to easily kill them becomes absurdly incompetent when they're directly facing it, so, that's nice.

Leviathans like Dick Roman should also just directly scale to 7-C without the 9-A low-ends, considering Leviathans in general are far stronger than Angels, and two of them overpowered full-power Seraph Castiel while in Purgatory.
 
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Oh, yeah, I forgot about this.

Currently, both Raphael and Gabriel have Portal Creation / Dimensional Travel scaling from Michael opening a rift to Purgatory with a snap of fingers while possessing Adam. That's pretty blatantly wrong, given how the whole plot of Season 6 was that Raphael was trying to open a portal to the place to take possession of all the souls trapped inside of it and become God. If anything, Michael casually doing that even with most of his powers nullified by handcuffs just shows how powerful he and Lucifer are compared to the other Archangels.
 
This seems fine.

As for Game of Thrones, the entire point of the series was to mostly run contrary to regular story conventions, and work more similar to reality in terms of thematics, so I personally didn't mind that the ending stayed true to that.

It would make sense that whatever god that writes the story of the "real" world would appreciate GoT, due to working more similarly to reality in any case.
 
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This seems fine.

As for Game of Thrones, the entire point of the series was to mostly run contrary to regular story conventions, and work more similar to reality in terms of thematics, so I personally didn't mind that the ending stayed true to that.

It would make sense that whoever god that writes the story of the "real" world would appreciate GoT, due to working more similarly to reality in any case.
Ant are you seriously explaining why God likes Game of Thrones?

Does chuck and jack have omnipresence?
I;'m leaning against it personally
 
So does this have sufficient support to be applied?
 
Not really

It's the state he's in for a good chunk of the story (Until he absorbs Amara so 17 episodes) and it's rather notable for the plot, arguably more so then True Vessel Michael (BTW why are the Michaels sharing a page? Apoc Michael is considered far stronger)

And it's not like he lacks feats since we see him burn worlds
 
If Ultima will not apply this, is some other experienced and knowledgeable member willing to handle it?
 
Okay, so are all of the other incarnations of Death scaled to him, and are the reasons for why he is only 3-A properly explained in the page?
 
Okay, so are all of the other incarnations of Death scaled to him, and are the reasons for why he is only 3-A properly explained in the page?
Yes, at first he was scaled to god due to what he said of him being the one to reap god

But then with the new seasons its revealed that death does not actually have the power to do that, death can only see the fate and put the pieces

There is also the whole lucifer killing death
 
Okay. No problem then. And is this properly explained in the character profile page?
 
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