Supernatural: Death Downgrade

[Assaltwaffle]

Currently Death is sitting at "likely 3-A" for... his hax. Yes, he is at universe-busting levels of power for his Death Manipulation. It is even described on his page to be purely hax, being "The ability to instantly kill anyone with a touch, ignoring all forms of durability." So he ignores all durability, yet scales to God's durability.

This is completely ridiculous. A character doesn't get a tier because their hax can hurt a character without resistance to it. It is accepted that hax is a form of beating a more powerful opponent in terms of raw strength by bypassing that strength entirely.

Unless Death has thrown a punch or energy blast against God, he should not be 3-A. It isn't worth a "likely" at all; it shouldn't be there.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I agree

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Agree as well

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Honestly how many more people do we need to agree here? I just can't possibly see a justification for him staying 3-A.

 

[PaChi2]

Erm, I believe Death'd need to be in god's league for his hax to work on him (inverse wise God would simply shrugg off any weaker magic), otherwise any Reaper could kill poor God.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Is his death hax done through phsical means or something? If not then it would just be VERY potent death hax but not somthing we would give him an AP rating for

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Well, that's how hax works lol. Any reaper with good death manip could indeed kill the Supernatural God, as he has no resistance to it.

If you don't have resistance to Death manipulation and are not higher-D, you best be ready to die.

 

[PaChi2]

No, no, I said that Supernatural god cannot be killed by any Reaper, only Death (stated by him) is capable of claiming God.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Is his death hax done through phsical means or something? If not then it would just be VERY potent death hax but not somthing we would give him an AP rating for

Exactly. It's potent Death hax, absolutely, but this isn't a tiering thing. But honestly is it that potent? Being able to kill a being without a resistance to death hax with death hax doesn't seem to be that impressive.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@PaChi

I thought you meant other reapers in fiction. Like another Death from a different franchise. I didn't know there are other reapers in Supernatural, if there are.

Still, being able to kill someone who resists death hax is just really good death hax, not a tier.

 

[PaChi2]

In spn normally you need to be on someone's league to affect them (You need to be as strong as an archangel to smite them, for example).

And yes, there are other reapers, after Death's death (lol) they are the ones who maintain thr cosmic balance (because there cannot be world without Death).

So, my conclusion is that you need to be as strong as god for your hax (any hax) to work on him (This ONLY applies INVERSE).

 

[PaChi2]

Is his death hax done through phsical means or something? If not then it would just be VERY potent death hax but not somthing we would give him an AP rating for

Iirc, to kill someone like Death or God they need his scythe.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Ah. So a mechanic internal to the verse causes hax not to work on characters stronger than you. Well that kinda makes hax a bit more lame in that verse...

Also how did Death die? He is stated to be the literal Concept of death and cannot die so long as Death, as a concept remains...

Are his powers exaggerated on his profile?

 

[PaChi2]

@Assalt literally cut in half by his own scythe. Not kidding.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@PaChi

Well according to his profile that shouldn't be able to kill him. If Death is a concept still exists, he is alive.

 

[PaChi2]

@PaChi

Well according to his profile that shouldn't be able to kill him. If Death is a concept still exists, he is alive.

Yeah, well, its more complicated. Death as a concept didnt die. Death's manifestation died. In the last season is revealed that there is a new Death.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

But is it THAT Death? Like the same entity? Because if it isn't I don't think that is exactly combat applicable...

Dying and being reincarnated as a new, separate being isn't exactly the same thing as maintaining your same consciousness through conceptual existence.

 

[PaChi2]

Yes, THAT Death. Whoever wears Death's Ring becomes Death. And they are all the same.

The Death from the Four Horsemen.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Hmm. Still wondering if that is combat applicable. How fast can Death get a new host? If someone destroys his body like Dean did, is that countable as a win?

 

[PaChi2]

Hmm. Still wondering if that is combat applicable. How fast can Death get a new host? If someone destroys his body like Dean did, is that countable as a win?

Well, plot aside, when other vessels are destroyed in spn its a matter of finding the closest body but I dunno if that applies to Death as everything happend offscreen.

Also its not explored in the show (Death's character, that is).

If we go by what the show has portrayed, then no, its not combat applicable. If you can kill Death's body, Death wont be back in a while (years or so I believe).

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Tfw 8-C fodder kills the 3-A embodiment of death.

Edit: That definitely beats Alexei Stukov one-shotting true form Samir Dura in how ridiculous that sounds lol.

 

[PaChi2]

Tfw 8-C fodder kills the 3-A embodiment of death.

With his own weapon. Its established that nothing else can kill Death.

 

[ByAsura]

Reaping might be a HAX ability, but there is no evidence, after all, tons of characters fighting reapers could have been reaped by them. Yes, i get that Death is the embodiment of Death, but he can't break souls, he can still perma kill though.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@PaChi

Yeah I know but still. Kinda funny. Also shouldn't Death be WAY faster than Dean, considering how much stronger he is?

 

[ByAsura]

Btw Billy is Death now, so should we have a profile for her?

 

[PaChi2]

@PaChi

Yeah I know but still. Kinda funny. Also shouldn't Death be WAY faster than Dean, considering how much stronger he is?

Plot. ovo

He is the nigh-omnipresent concept of Death lol

 

[ByAsura]

@PaChi

Yeah I know but still. Kinda funny. Also shouldn't Death be WAY faster than Dean, considering how much stronger he is?

Plot. ovo
He is the nigh-omnipresent concept of Death lol

In Season 7 Episode 1 he said that he'd kill them before they bound him again, which implies he hasn't really kept his omnipresence and omniscience on them, could definitley be the case here.

 

[PaChi2]

Btw Billy is Death now, so should we have a profile for her?

Huh, I believe we'd just add her picture to Death's profile and that's it. At least Lucifer's profile has that time when he was Misha, or Jared.

 

[ByAsura]

Understandable.

Also, Death stated to Dean that "Nothing Lasts for ever, except me" - I can't remember the exact episode, but it was season 6, when Dean became Death, however, big credit to his Durability.

 

[PaChi2]

"In Season 7 Episode 1 he said that he'd kill them before they bound him again, which implies he hasn't really kept his omnipresence and omniscience on them, could definitley be the case here."

Erm... they were in the same room when that (Death's death) happened... so I dont understand what you mean.

 

[Theglassman12]

Death being 3-A is logical since he told Dean that he'll reap God's soul, and on top of the fact that he's at least as old as god as stated by him. And in Supernatural's world, being older than another creature makes you more deadlier than the younger creatures, like when Eve was able to render Castiel's powers moot due to her being older than him and learning what makes angels tick, and when the leviathens showed up and were unaffected by the angel's powers and effortlessly killed them due to how long they've existed.

 

[ByAsura]

@PaChi2 His Omniscience only really works with Concentration, or at least is heavily implied to.

Also, he has Reapers all over the world, he doesn't really need to concentrate on everything.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Glass

Being able to reap God means nothing but having good hax, except for what PaChi said. Without the "can't work on a stronger character" statement, Death wouldn't possibly be 3-A.

 

[ByAsura]

He also said nothing lasts forever, except him - Probably scales to Durability.

Note that Angels are immortal, as are many other entities, so he's probably not talking about Immortality.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Assault that would be true, if it wasn't for the fact that it's shown numerous times in the show that beings that are far older than others, or at the very least, is the same age as others can affect creatures around the same age as them. If that logic really applied to the entire show, then the leviathens would've been killed easily by the angels, but the fact that they've lived longer than others make them more difficult to fight.

 

[PaChi2]

@Glass

Being able to reap God means nothing but having good hax, except for what PaChi said. Without the "can't work on a stronger character" statement, Death wouldn't possibly be 3-A.

I mean, its pretty clear when Castiel absorbes the souls in purgatory (which boosts his raw power by a lot) and proceeds to smite... Raphael (archangel) was? That doesnt mean that his smite got upgraded, he only got stronger.

 

[ByAsura]

His smite did get upgraded, he couldn't smite Raphiel after obtaining 50,000 from Crowley remember, he could only banish him, then later got stomped.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@PaChi

I know, I am conceding that, since stronger=powerful hax and weaker=hax won't work in Supernatural.

 

[PaChi2]

His smite did get upgraded, he couldn't smite Raphiel after obtaining 50,000 from Crowley remember.

1 million souls > 50k souls.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Pachi 1 million purgatory souls (most of them primarily made of leviathens).