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Supergirl (CW) Upgrade

The calc itself looks good, but I don't follow the show much so is this an outlier?

Also, shouldn't their speed be upgraded due to heat vision being solar radiation?
 
This is definitley an outlier, she is consistently shown to hurt by much weaker explosions and attacks, which are usually in the small nuclear range.

She said she would die to a 400 megaton attack.

I think she said she'd die to the nuke in Myraid as well.
 
Well, it is hard to evaluate what constitutes an outlier for superhero stories, as they tend to be littered with feats all over the spectrum.
 
That only really applies to Comics like Marvel and DC with stuff like the films and such tending to be more consistent due to their being a far lesser amount of stories and different writers.
 
Okay. I do not follow the TV series, so I do not know.
 
Supergirl is inconsistent, but they generally put the character into an urban or nuclear destruction level, rather than something like this.
 
I wouldn't be so quick to write this off. It defintiely could be an outlier, but it isn't totally without precedent.

J'onns dad just pulled the Earth back together. Sure, shapeshifting was involved, but J'onn says it "rip [M'yrnn] apart". His body is clearly taking the physical forces involved.

It's been implied Clark has done something similiar, as well. Back in Season 2, Winn mentions that Lex triggered an earthquake, and infers that Clark would have needed to "gauge the [quake's] focal depth".

Shifting, or holding, tectonic plates like that is gonna put you in a similar range to this "solar flare".

EDIT

There is also Reign burrowing through the core of the Earth.
 
Kara and Superman are powerless against Mxy, who can perform a similar feat. So either he's more powerful by vast vast amounts, or it's an outlier.

I'm pretty sure we could write the Earthquake feat as an inconsistency or random statement. We don't know the magnitude, and since it was triggered, it was likely that it could just be a low magnitude one targeted on a specific point.

How fast was it done and how?

Even feats such as Small City level is kind of pushing it with the more consistent multi city block level.
 
Mxy said he could literally split the planet in half. That's orders of magnitude beyond a simple extinction event, which is what M'rynn prevented. Regin was terraforming the planet, not ripping it apart. Mxy > > M'rynn > or = Reign

There is certainly reason to question the details of the earthquake feat. I was just demonstrating that the show has hinted at Kryptonian's being a much larger threat than shown on-screen.

Supporting evidence for country-busting, as I see it: M'rynn's Earth mending, Reign's core dive, Overgirl's solar flare, Clark's earthquake (extremely circumstantial)

City+ is more than confirmed. If you want to get hyper-technical about what is shown on-screen most often, then the show would be building-ish.

> Ragman survives a nuke, twice.

> Firestorm survives a nuke (he takes the blast before activating his absorbtion)

> Kara's Fort Rozz feat

> Kaitlyn covers Central City in snow

> Waverider survives a nuke
 
"J'onns dad just pulled the Earth back together. Sure, shapeshifting was involved, but J'onn says it "rip [M'yrnn] apart". His body is clearly taking the physical forces involved."

I was going by your wording. And you didn't explain how it wasn't being torn apart, just being terraformed.

Ok.

Mending the Earth, which you still haven't shown evidence for, is likely way higher than Country level. Even if it's just mending a terraformed one. Also, why does he scale to anyone?

> Ragman who powerscales to pretty much no one. Also, did he withstand it point blank, or from a distance?

> Firestorm who is adept at withstanding energy based attacks, and didn't actually withstand it, his fusions did.

> Which is small city level and took effort.

> If I recall, those are only Large Town level, and it's only shown one part of the area, not the city.

> Explain why the Waverider scales to anyone or thing in Supergirl, Flash, etc.
 
>"Mending the Earth, which you still haven't shown evidence for, is likely way higher than Country level. Even if it's just mending a terraformed one.'

Kind of figured someone openly debating key feats of a series was maybe familiar with, you know, key feats. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdQbW44BhXw&t=2s Starts at 1:50 - Reign is at the Earth's core, and the effects of the terraforming are being felt worldwide.

>"Also, why does he scale to anyone? "

Mrynn - currently suffering from space-dimensia - literally leaves his deathbed to accomplish this feat. Prior to this, he spent 200 years in prison being psychically tortured. The man is physically far below a baseline Martian - he's a dying martian. J'onn scales to this on the grounds that he isn't a decrepit, old man.

>"Also, did [Ragman] withstand it point blank, or from a distance?"

Both. He was in the town that Felicity nuked, and he used his rags to wrap up another one later in the series.

>"Which is small city level and took effort."

Which makes literally no sense. Kara shows "effort" just picking up fort Rozz, despite the fact that she can lift the Fortress Key like it's nothing (same weight).

This is an issue of plot consistency, and is a weak argument against anything. The heroes of these stories always struggle against things that shouldn't be an issue. Barry routinely "loses" people, despite the fact that he could literally freeze-frame the city, and then walk around until he found them. But nope, that dude ran around a corner, he's definitely gone forever.

> Firestorm who is adept at withstanding energy based attacks, and didn't actually withstand it, his fusions did.

Jax and Stein take a nuke to the face in Legends.

They do absorb the heat and energy from the blast, but still, eat the full force of the explosion. Stein even says that they have, like, 0.06 seconds to activate their powers once the bomb goes off. Even a fraction of that is enough time for the concussive forces to hit them.

> "If I recall, those are only Large Town level, and it's only shown one part of the area, not the city."

It's small city level.

We see it snowing on the other side of town when we cut to Barry's new apartment. It was city-wide.

> "Explain why the Waverider scales to anyone or thing in Supergirl, Flash, etc."

Um...Supergirl literally damages Earth X's with her heat vision.
 
I am. I just couldn't remember the feat, and didn't have access. Being old and dying doesn't mean that he's instantly weaker, he could be so much more powerful that he's far stronger even on the verge of dying. Also, like I say, a feat like that is vastly higher, it can even range into continent or multi level, which would be an outlier even here. It might be even higher if the entire core was changed.

I'm pretty sure a core diving feat was also calced at City level. Making Reign's feat pretty consistent with other City level feats.

Ok, so that's Town to Large Town level. And has anyone managed to hurt him with a physical blow? Aside from that person who tore off a bit, since they're just a normal human with average strength. I don't watch Arrow.

^ Edit: He could withstand a bomb capable of destroying everything within 50 miles/80 kilometers. IIRC this is Mountain level to Large Mountain level, but it took all the power of his rags to do so, and they were disintegrated, but it was point blank and directly around the bomb, so it took all the energy of it. "If I (Felicity) can't, then the yield will spread over 50 miles."

She didn't really struggle to lift it, at least not a lot. It was definitely more than the previous feat, which only briefly seemed to make her struggle. However, after a few seconds, she literally shows minimal struggle lifting the actual structure.

Ok, I admit here that i'm wrong. Anyway, the nuke doesn't look that powerful, he did absorb it all though, so I imagine it's way smaller than it's supposed to, but he clearly stuggles to absorb it. I'll watch the episode to see statements of power.

^ Edit: It's stated to have a yield of 1 megaton, so that's the literal lowest end of Small City level. Vandal Savage: "This is a variable yield nuclear warhead. Capable of producing a blast equivalent to 1 Megaton of TNT."

I watched the episode, and this is true, but City wide =/= small city level. Sometimes city wide storms and blizzards are only large town level, which is just average. And that's also consistent even if it is Small City level considering she could freeze and shatter Black Flash.

Ok, I didn't know that. Thank you for explaining. I think Supergirl should be City level in this case, especially since she isn't vastly inferior to Reign.
 
"Being old and dying doesn't mean that he's instantly weaker, he could be so much more powerful '''''that''''' he's far stronger even on the verge of dying."

He could also be a secret wizard. I see about as much evidence to support either conclusion. All we know for sure is 1) He's a Green Martian, 2) he lived as a priest, 3) he has spent the last 200 years in prisoned and being tortured, 4) he is literally dying of old age.

Nothing about him implies that he is special compared to other Martians. In fact, the white Martian's being able to hold him for 200 years says quite the opposite. J'onn has no problem fight hordes of White Martians. I also don't remember J'onn being in any real danger during M'rynn's panic attack/tantrum.

> "Also, like I say, a feat like that is vastly higher, it can even range into 'continent' 'ormulti level, which would be an outlier even here. It might be even higher if the entire core was changed."

How is it an outlier? A sudden jump in power doesn't automatically make it an outlier. That would end power growth altogether. You'd need an example of a comparable character failing, or struggling, to accomplish a comparable or lesser feat.

The only examples I can think of are, 1) Kara says 400mt is lethal to her, 2) Karas Fort Rozz lift. And only one of which do I consider remotely valid. As I mentioned the earlier, Kara's Rozz feat is silly non-sense, in terms of how much effort it took.

Funny story. The Fort Rozz feat can - if you wanna go down a rabbit hole - actually support the idea of a coutnry+ Kara. We find out in a later episode that Fort Rozz manages to reach another solar system in about 1 year. Now that is blatantly FTL, so standard KE is out of the question. However, we can always ask our buddy Einstein for a low-ball. Mass-energy of 1 million tons (e=mc^2) puts that at moon level.

" He could withstand a bomb capable of destroying everything within 50 miles/80 kilometers. IIRC this is Mountain level to Large Mountain level, but it took all the power of his rags to do so, and they were disintegrated, but it was point blank and directly around the bomb, so it took all the energy of it. "If I (Felicity) can't, then the yield will spread over 50 miles."

Pretty sure that the bomb he eats point-blank is actually stated to be 1mt. I'll have to go dig it up.

"She didn't really struggle to lift it, at least not a lot. It was definitely more than the previous feat, which only briefly seemed to make her struggle. However, after a few seconds, she literally shows minimal struggle lifting the actual structure." Um...no. This is just incorrect.

Here'sa side-by-side of her face at the start of each feat Her effort here makes zero sense.

> "I watched the episode, and this is true, but '''''City wide''''' =/= small city level. Sometimes city wide storms and blizzards are only large town level, which is just average. And that's also consistent even if it is Small City level considering she could freeze and shatter Black Flash."

Here's a calc. It came out to 1.14mt.

"Ok, so that's Town to 'Large' Town level. And has anyone managed to hurt him with a physical blow? Aside from that person who tore off a bit, since they're just a normal human with average strength. I don't watch Arrow."

No. Pretty sure that's why the eventually gave him the boot. He was invincible compared to the standrad Arrow cast, and that really killed any tension. He eats nukes and slaps bullets out of the air. There wasn't anybody around to contest him.
 
Ok, I conceed there. The sudden jump in tier is incomparable to Kara's own. Overgirl (Kara's equal) did this Country level feat when all of the energy in her body was released after being overloaded, and Kara was harmed by it.

Because he's literally the only one in the series who has a feat of that level. There's also being stunned by a bomb capable of destroying 30 blocks, believing she'd die against Indigo's bomb, being briefly knocked out by a missile that doesn't even range into city levels or small city levels, these are PIS of course, but you could very well argue the same for those feats. She didn't move it at those speeds, also that's even higher than anything else in the series, except for Mxy of course.

There's no point really, it's contradicted by its own feat of being able to destroy everything in 50 miles.

Actually read the comment, she struggled at first, but then had no problem supporting the actual weight later.

Ok I conceed there.

Makes sense. So there's no one really that's hamred him.
 
" Because he's literally the only one in the series who has a feat of that level. "

A.) Irrelevant *see 4th comment* B.) Only if you ignore the Overgirl feat that we are discussing. I feel like you are going in circles.

You: Overgirl is probably an outlier. There is no one with these kinds of feats

Me: What about M'rynn?

You: M'yrnn is probably an outlier. There is no one else with these kinds of feats

Me: What about Overgirl?


"She didn't move it at those speeds"

It gets where it gets. Bad visual FX don't change the outcome. Kara was the last one to have any effect on the object. Without confirmation that it hit a wormhole or something, the only conclusion available to us is that she threw it. Even if it did hit a wormhole, the only naturally occurring wormholes thus far have led through time and dimensions. They don't seem to create shortcuts through space.

To be clear, this would, in fact, be an outlier. Given that, after this feat, we actually see her rendered unconscious by a Country level attack. This was just an afterthought. She obviously isn't moon level.


"Actually read the comment, she struggled at first, but then had no problem supporting the actual weight later. "

Your words: "She didn't really struggle to lift it, at least not a lot."

Yes, you do go on say that it gets easier, but you also blatantly hand-wave the clear effort she is exerting just to pick up the fort. Back-peddle all you want. Your words - "didn't really struggle", "at least not a lot" - simply don't match face her face.

This scene is nonsense and has no business being used as an example of Kara struggling to accomplish a feat. Which was my entire point to begin with.


"also that's even higher than anything else in the series, except for Mxy of course."

For the love of all that is good and nerdy, PLEASE stop saying this.

This means literally nothing. A sudden jump in power for a series doesn't prove an outlier. Like I said, you need solid evidence that the feat is outside the power of comparable characters. Kara could evaporate the Milky Way next season, and - until she, or a comparable character, falls short of a lesser feat - it wouldn't automatically be an outlier.

Power creep is a thing. So are Zenkai. They need to be taken in stride, not hand-waved. As long as there is a clear upward path; punches a mountain --> punches an island --> punches a planet, etc etc, then you have basic power growth. The problem is when you have something like; tanks a bullet --> tanks grenade --> tanks supernova --> dies to a nuke. The outlier here is the supernova, not because its better than his previous feats, but because it contradicts later feats: that's how you prove a fluke. Tanking the supernova would be legit until we can see that he is incapable of dealing with lesser forces.

This logic is pretty applicable irl. If someone does something amazing that someone thinks is a fluke, the first reaction usually is "I bet you can't do it again." Even if the person is known to have sucked at this activity in the distant past, there is always the possibility that he has improved. The only way to confirm the fluke is to make the individual attempt to repeat the action.


"being stunned by a bomb capable of destroying 30 blocks, believing she'd die against Indigo's bomb, being briefly knocked out by a missile that doesn't even range into city levels or small city levels,"

Not only are these PIS, as you mentioned, I'm pretty sure all but one of them is from Season 1. And all of them are, like, a full season before the M'rynn and Overgirl feats. So, in other words, we still have linear power growth, as described above.


"these are PIS of course, but you could very well argue the same for those feats"

You can argue against the moon landing, too. I wouldn't recomend it.

The lower end feats are PIS for a good reason, the are blatantly contradicted by earlier feats. The only argument against the new feats is that they are better than the old ones.

Just like with outliers, one of the ideas around PIS is that characters don't randomly get weaker with time. If they do, then you usually have an outlier or a case of PIS. Either the new feat is PIS, or the old feat is an outlier. A jump from one level to another, without old failures to contradict it, is generally neither PIS nor an outlier. It's just character growth.


"There's no point really, it's contradicted by its own feat of being able to destroy everything in 50 miles."

Character statements =/= feats. It's a statement contradicted by another statement. Neither holds any more weight, objectively speaking. I personally would take a statement regarding actual yield over Felicity's guess.

Also, there is an argument that they don't contradict at all. Felicity statement is 100% true, in regards to a 1mt blast. It would destroy everything in 50 miles. She doesn't say that it will only span 50 miles.
 
Not going to bother because I could make the same circular logic argument.

I was talking about before it reached outer space (where it was thrown).

I merely stated she struggled with it, then say that she did but just at first, you don't have to go on some tangent. Anyway, this happens a lot in fiction, a character lifts an object and struggles at first, but then can easily lift it once they fully do it. She does exert effort to pick it up, but then has literally no struggle after.

Can you please not be passive agressive. I highly doubt she grew that much, she can still keep up with people she did in season 1 and 2. Myx is literally stated to be all powerful and a 5th dimensional imp, he's portrayed as significantly more powerful.

Just to ask, is there any statements about being more powerful? I know it's implied, as she is knocked out by a fall that would rattle Superman, and then is able to fight him. Also she keeps up with a Tachyon Flash in Season 2 (of the flash TV series), and then keeps up with an even faster one in season 3.

I guess we can just agree to disagree there. A 1mt blast wouldn't cover a 50 mile diameter.
 
Anyway, I don't care anymore, i'm a just unfollow. I'm planning to finish off these threads. Do what you will, but I think there's enough for at least something like City level here with Reign's core dive, Superman's earthquake stop, and Kara damaging the Waverider if you don't manage to get Country level.
 
So is Supergirl getting an upgrade or not? Keep in mind that this is only an outlier if Supergirl actually does get hurt by much weaker attacks AFTER the Crisis on Earth-X crossover.

(Though keep in mind I've only watched the Arrow and the Flash so far. I have yet to watch Supergirl…except episode 1.)
 
Andytrenom said:
@Arthur Not believing a character is as powerful as you do, does not make someone a hater.
If there are enough things supporting a higher rating for Supergirl, she will get upgraded.
Click to expand...
Ok i know people keep her downballed because of inconsistency but watching profiles of 90 % of all characters in this wiki a lot of them are also exagerrated because of unconcistent feats. Like Super Mario Bros. characters or some Marvel Cinematic Universe characters.

No offence but this is weird to me.

Blame scriptwriters for such unconsistency.

For instance i can lowball MCU Thor like taken down by stupid Voltage device from Sakaar ( planet known from orgies, gladiator fights or alcoholic parties no advanced tech on Xandar or Wakanda lvl ) or being flinched and feeled pain from gummy airball etc. etc. I can downball 50% of all VS Battle wiki profiles and what....

That will start fan wars which will end in banning me.
 
You won't get banned as long as you try to present your arguments in a polite manner and not lose your cool in case they don't get accepted.
 
Andytrenom said:
You won't get banned as long as you try to present your arguments in a polite manner and not lose your cool in case they don't get accepted.
Click to expand...
Ok thx. But i just wanted to share my opinion about some profiles. I know that u do not agree even with 50 % of all characters in this wiki. I am fanboy of some series like DC comics, Arrowverse, DCEU, Legend of Zelda or some other profile characters but i do not try to discuss because i will be called wanker or hater etc.

I will be polite as u said.
 
ByAsura said:
This is definitley an outlier, she is consistently shown to hurt by much weaker explosions and attacks, which are usually in the small nuclear range.
She said she would die to a 400 megaton attack.

I think she said she'd die to the nuke in Myraid as well.
Click to expand...
Ok, but that was early carrier Supergirl and Kara stated that. She might haven't known that she is much stronger than she thinks of herself. Rewatch S3 and she was taking Reign punches ( even finale version one ) what by VS battle wiki scaling she should be at least 5-C.

Man anybody even MCU or DCEU guys loses to much lower tier enemies because of some plot reasons
 
The calculation isn't complete, the value would and should be lower because of the distance that Supergirl was away from Overgirl, the energy of the explosion would expand in accordance with the inverse sqaure law. I don't even know if the method used for the calc is reliable since Overgirl isn't a nuclear weapon. The calculated radius is accurate and we saw the explosion happen in real time therefore we can calculate the speed of the explosion. We can then use the real life weight of Melissa Benoist with the calculated speed value to get the KE value for the explosion. I get ~494 tons of TNT which is 8A. Alternatively you could use mass energy and get 4.93278875×1018 J which is High-7A.
 
Andytrenom ComicBookMyths


She has already perform "very bad outlier" feat of destroying black hole from Midnight. She was tanking it along with J'onn and wrecked it.


But i know u don't care about it. Even if she wrecked black star alloy in S1 ep14 ( or 15 ).
 
Hellbeast1 said:
Yeah if it doesn't act like a black hole it's a no go
Click to expand...
Because they were inside black hole. Midnight just kicked J'onn into black hole and they had to destroy the Black hole b4 it would destroy everything. Why do u thing J'onn J'onzz closed her in Phantom Zone not like DEO prisoners even as hax broken and godly powerful as purity or Reign or Astra ?! Because as J'onn said she was feeding with death's of dead people so that why she had to be banished to most safe prison in multiverse. This is what was in monitor's intention. Prepare heroes for Crisis. Writers confirmed Monitor race from Smallville S11 series are the very same guys like Mar Novu from Elseworlds. Kara literally shattered black hole ( and J'onn was tanking/no solding it's pull ) like Brainiac via context and his reliance of 12th intellect said about gravitational pull.


Same solar flare in early career vaporised Red tornado who was supposed to be killing and combat kryptonians and was based to kryptonian flesh like materials or her solar flare was used to Exodus ship which was supposed to in seconds reach 2nd edge of observable universe in seconds ( if u wanna downplay Winn Schott/Lilian/Jeremiah statement about speed of light , in dc continuity SoL always were sth way greater than 3*10^8 m/s ). + her heatvision even at her weakest ( if determined enough ) can match serious Reign's heatvision which can easily make post Earth-X Crisis Kara mouse under eye.


But **** this.

BETTER !

Better downplay them all to 10-B because Kara was struggling against E-38 dominator ( despite she said this race enslaved E38 Krypton in 1600 and was doing genetical experiments to kryptonians so likely could be kryptonian like dominator ).

Screew this like this entire t***h site. Omegawank and omegadownplay.

Fact: Smallville Superman matches consistently monitors.

VS Battle Wiki: Hmmmm let pretend it never happenned so leave this at High 4-C

Me:

Bc065cbfd4b23a21038ea58f588fb3c6
 
Dude, stop being a whiny twit. Black holes, much like lasers and lightning, require proof they work like they are supposed to or else we cannot attribute it the properties of an actual black hole. All you have given us so far is that it pulls stuff in and is possibly called a black hole before complaining about how we apparently downplay CW Supergirl despite people asking for feats that can be quantified or evidence or for your claims. This happens with every other verse on the site so stop acting like Supergirl is especially hated and picked on in some way.
 
I don't care. Wank or downplay. I am curious why nobody tried to downplay Smallville Superman apocalypse push feat because visually onscreen was introduced as celestial object of city sized and this planet gravitational pull didn't even shattered surface by it's pull and gravity. I am waiting when sb will hesitate to downplay. I have this entire site in my 3 letters.
 
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