super sonic vs super sonic

[Kflare63]

classic super sonic vs stc super sonic

• classic sonic is low 2-C
• Speed is equalized
• stc sonic has access to god robotinik abilities
• no prior knowledge
• both start 50ft apart
• winner wins via death ONLY
• fight takes place in the special zone

Classic sonic:

Comic sonic:

incon

 

[XVII]

classic sonic via speed

fleetway is mftl+

classic is immesurable

gg ez for classic

 

[Kflare63]

Forgot to put speed equal lol

 

[Kflare63]

Fixed

 

[XVII]

by the vs battles speed equalization rules

Per default the following rules and assumptions will be taken if a match takes place in a speed equalized setting:

• The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc.
  • Speed Amplification techniques are assumed to grant the same percentile of increase to a character's equalized speeds, as they would to their usual speeds.
• Any speed equalized match, in which a major reason a character loses is due to having a disadvantage against some speed value they usually wouldn't have a disadvantage against, may not be added to profiles.
  • As a result, winning a speed equalized match against a faster opponent due to a speed boost so large that it blitzes the opponent will not be added.
  • Matches in which characters with Immeasurable speed lose against not-immeasurable passive abilities would likewise not be added, as the Immeasurable characters would normally be faster than the instantaneous passives.

so basically classic sonic keeps his immesurable speed and blitzes comic sonic

 

[Kflare63]

isn't that immeasurable speed tied to his 2-C rating scaling from solaris?

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Yes

 

[XVII]

yes but they are both 2-C lol

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

by the vs battles speed equalization rules

Per default the following rules and assumptions will be taken if a match takes place in a speed equalized setting:

• The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc.
  • Speed Amplification techniques are assumed to grant the same percentile of increase to a character's equalized speeds, as they would to their usual speeds.
• Any speed equalized match, in which a major reason a character loses is due to having a disadvantage against some speed value they usually wouldn't have a disadvantage against, may not be added to profiles.
  • As a result, winning a speed equalized match against a faster opponent due to a speed boost so large that it blitzes the opponent will not be added.
  • Matches in which characters with Immeasurable speed lose against not-immeasurable passive abilities would likewise not be added, as the Immeasurable characters would normally be faster than the instantaneous passives.

so basically classic sonic keeps his immesurable speed and blitzes comic sonic

Er, no. That second bolded bit is talking specifically about non-immeasurable passives defeating an immeasurable speed dude in speed equalized. Even if this key for Classic had immeasurable, StC has no passives afaik, so it'd be perfectly fine to equalize and reduce Classic down from immeasurable. Not sure why you bolded the first bit, all of Classic's immeasurable speed would be reduced down to a finite level in this case with speed equalization if he even had Immeasurable in this key.

yes but they are both 2-C lol

The OP specifies Low 2-C for Classic, whom is MFTL+

 

[XVII]

Er, no. That second bolded bit is talking specifically about non-immeasurable passives defeating an immeasurable speed dude in speed equalized. Even if this key for Classic had immeasurable, StC has no passives afaik, so it'd be perfectly fine to equalize and reduce Classic down from immeasurable. Not sure why you bolded the first bit, all of Classic's immeasurable speed would be reduced down to a finite level in this case with speed equalization if he even had Immeasurable in this key.

The OP specifies Low 2-C for Classic, whom is MFTL+

oh damn, i think i interpreted it the wrong way then, sorry mb
----

anyway, the reason why i bolded the first bit was multiplier you see

it should be downscaled into mftl+ but it needs to be multiplied by a value to become mftl+

but multiplying infinity by any value doesn't decrease it

so classic sonic does retain his immesurable speed and also he has better hax, such as attack reflection and stuff

so yeah, even if the speed equalization worked, classic sonic still wins, via speedblitz or no

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

oh damn, i think i interpreted it the wrong way then, sorry mb
----

anyway, the reason why i bolded the first bit was multiplier you see

it should be downscaled into mftl+ but it needs to be multiplied by a value to become mftl+

but multiplying infinity by any value doesn't decrease it

so classic sonic does retain his immesurable speed and also he has better hax, such as attack reflection and stuff

so yeah, even if the speed equalization worked, classic sonic still wins, via speedblitz or no

Speed equalization can reduce Immeasurable or Infinite speeds down to finite speeds, it's just how speed equalization works, here's examples of that working and being the case here and here, with Immeasurable Super Silver having speed equalized reduce him to the levels of MFTL+ opponents. I could dig up more examples if need be

 

[XVII]

Speed equalization can reduce Immeasurable or Infinite speeds down to finite speeds, it's just how speed equalization works, here's examples of that working and being the case here and here, with Immeasurable Super Silver having speed equalized reduce him to the levels of MFTL+ opponents. I could dig up more examples if need be

oh? welp if thats the case then speed is equalized

still classic sonic wins

 

[BlastX]

Classic is Half 2-C while STC is baseline 2-C, so the difference is only x2 in STC favor, fat load of good it do for him given the Invencibility Classic has.

Super may initially do his usual "Hold back to prolong their suffering" schtick but probably drop it quickly upon facing what's basically another Super Sonic and seeing he isn't overwhelming above his opponents like usual (on top lf the fact he can't even hurt him normally) so he might actually start using his Godlike powers (it's not unusual for him, before the emerald boost he looked for other methods when pummeling his opponent wasn't enough like Sonic). Now if they work or not depends, need to check what Classic resist and what he doesn't.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Following this

 

[XVII]

Classic is Half 2-C while STC is baseline 2-C, so the difference is only x2 in STC favor, fat load of good it do for him given the Invencibility Classic has.

Super may initially do his usual "Hold back to prolong their suffering" schtick but probably drop it quickly upon facing what's basically another Super Sonic and seeing he isn't overwhelming above his opponents like usual (on top lf the fact he can't even hurt him normally) so he might actually start using his Godlike powers (it's not unusual for him, before the emerald boost he looked for other methods when pummeling his opponent wasn't enough like Sonic). Now if they work or not depends, need to check what Classic resist and what he doesn't.

""half"" 2-C is still 2-C, so unless you're talking about 150% 2-C i'm confused

also, the OP specifically said 2-C versions, so classic is not low 2-C

so we may treat them as both baseline 2-C
-----

about that yeah, they are both super sonics, but classic has better hax, although not so much

god robotnik abilities shouldn't matter that much because classic has

All abilities of base form are greatly enhanced, Self-Sustenance (Type 3), True Flight, Spaceflight, Invulnerability, Invulnerability Negation (Scaling from Modern Super Sonic, who can harm other Super Form users such as Imperator Ix), Afterimage Creation (Passive. Has a constant afterimage), Chaos Energy Manipulation, Attack Reflection, Resistance to Mind Manipulation

and comic has

Same as before on a much higher scale, Energy Projection (Can shoot lasers out of his eyes), Likely possesses all the powers of God Robotnik, which includes Self-Sustenance (Types 1, 2, and 3), Large Size (Up to Type 5), Light Projection, Telekinesis, Mind Control, Magic, Summoning, Reality Warping, Portal Creation, Resurrection, Transmutation, Creation, Size Manipulation, Disease Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Dream Manipulation, Clothing Manipulation, Weather Manipulation, Earth Manipulation Shapeshifting, Intangibility, Petrification, Time Manipulation, Power Nullification, Acausality (Type 1), Resistance to Time Stop (Could think and slightly move during the Omni-Viewer stopped time, albeit it took him a week to get two of his fingers out of the Omni-Viewer and it would take him years to get out. Could supercharge himself into an Electron Bomb quickly while on stopped time)

and mind you, here are some of classic's powers in base (gets greatly enhanced in super state)

Toon Force and Elasticity (Can survive being flattened and is able to recover immediately), Natural Weaponry and Body Control (Can sharpen his spines and curl into a ball to perform his Spin Attacks, being capable of slashing through solid metal like tissue paper), Homing Attack, Limited Instinctive Reaction (The Homing Attack is an automatic body movement that makes the user instinctively crash into an opponent's weak point), Time Manipulation/Time Stop and Age Manipulation (Can traverse the Special Stages of the Time Stones, which alter/remove time from their stages, the mysterious Time Stones are also said to be able to turn a desert into a jungle, and a polluted lake into a beautiful lake by crossing through time. Can move freely within White Space, a void where Time doesn't exist)

so yeah, classic can outhax him and beat comic

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

""half"" 2-C is still 2-C, so unless you're talking about 150% 2-C i'm confused

also, the OP specifically said 2-C versions, so classic is not low 2-C

so we may treat them as both baseline 2-C

Half 2-C is a thing and is Low 2-C in tier rating, not very many characters have it, but it is a thing (For non-Sonic examples, Beerus and anime MUI Goku are some other characters that have it). It is weird and I'm probably not the guy to explain it, there's others far more knowledgeable on the matter

Also, OP specifies Classic as his Low 2-C key

• classic sonic is low 2-C

If it were 2-C Classic Super Sonic, he'd one-shot due to scaling to hundreds of unverses while StC scales to baseline

 

[XVII]

Also, OP specifies Classic as his Low 2-C key

oooh i misread it, mb

anyway, due to better hax, classic should win

 

[BlastX]

Super could just take away all of Classic's powers via power null.

Also, not sure if this would work but Super can just absorb Classic's Chaos Energy and drain him of all his power, not sure if it would worl because Game Chaos Energy is different from STC Chaos Energy.

 

[sanicspood]

I don’t think classic sonic resists reality warping, what stops sonic from doing this as well with a mere thought?

 

[TauanVictor]

I don’t think classic sonic resists reality warping, what stops sonic from doing this as well with a mere thought?

Due to the fact that it doesn't start with that.

 

[BlastX]

Even if he doesn't start he will use it upon seeing his normal tactics don't work, I already explained it.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I don’t think classic sonic resists reality warping, what stops sonic from doing this as well with a mere thought?

Pretty sure Classic resists the warping from the Phantom Ruby, at least in his Super form, He also fought Infinite who abuses his reality warping in Forces

 

[sanicspood]

StC sonics reality warping is kinda 4D, idk if that changes anything

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

StC sonics reality warping is kinda 4D, idk if that changes anything

Not really, since the Phantom Ruby is also 4D in Potency. It literally created Null Space and powered up the Phantom King

 

[Kflare63]

Don't we not use things that are not on the profiles? Classic doesn't have resistance to reality warping

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Don't we not use things that are not on the profiles? Classic doesn't have resistance to reality warping

I guess we forgot to add that, this will probably be in future crt or something

 

[Kflare63]

bup

 

[rawXDglomp]

"Likely possesses all the powers of God Robotnik,"
Uhh what's the basis for this? Why would he have these? His super form didn't work like robotniks in verse (having limited energy, being a split personality then body and using completely different powers) and word of god was just that he's the strongest, not the most versatile or anything. There's nothing in or out of verse I'm aware of that would give him these powers.

Anyways classic loses until reality warp resistance is in profile and wins once its in. No point voting until that's added via crt.

 

[Kflare63]

"Likely possesses all the powers of God Robotnik,"
Uhh what's the basis for this? Why would he have these?

he is powered by the complete chaos emeralds just like robotnik and chaos were

 

[LaserPrecision]

"Likely possesses all the powers of God Robotnik,"
Uhh what's the basis for this? Why would he have these? His super form didn't work like robotniks in verse (having limited energy, being a split personality then body and using completely different powers) and word of god was just that he's the strongest, not the most versatile or anything. There's nothing in or out of verse I'm aware of that would give him these powers.

Anyways classic loses until reality warp resistance is in profile and wins once its in. No point voting until that's added via crt.

I assume the basis for it is both get their abilities from the Chaos Emeralds, so why should Super Sonic lack the abilities God Robotnik possesses. Something along those lines.

 

[rawXDglomp]

he is powered by the complete chaos emeralds just like robotnik and chaos were

That doesn't mean he has powers he's never shown though. Both of those worked differently to him, having seemingly infinite energy. He's the only super I remember in that series specifically having limits on his power, and those limits were a core plot point the series ended on.
For him to be able to do what they'd do would require him to not work like this, which is not true.
Well limits on using his power. Since chaos was depowered by sucking his power, which means it was finite, even if it otherwise seemed limitless.

 

[Kflare63]

That doesn't mean he has powers he's never shown though.

that's why it says "likely"

 

[PROPLAYEN]

I think super sonic wins guys

 

[LaserPrecision]

That doesn't mean he has powers he's never shown though. Both of those worked differently to him, having seemingly infinite energy. He's the only super I remember in that series specifically having limits on his power, and those limits were a core plot point the series ended on.
For him to be able to do what they'd do would require him to not work like this, which is not true.
Well limits on using his power. Since chaos was depowered by sucking his power, which means it was finite, even if it otherwise seemed limitless.

There's a reason it says likely. Whilst they haven't shown those powers, that isn't evidence that he doesn't have them. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

The reason it's likely is because of Occam's razor, that being the simpler solution that requires less leaps in logic is likely the best solution. In this case, it's inferred that since the two come about in the same way (Both from the energy of the Chaos Emeralds) that there's no reason they shouldn't have the same abilities. However, since it's not shown, the likely is added there.

From what I recall, the reason Super Sonic had limits in Fleetway was when he didn't have the Chaos Emeralds since he needed the Chaos Emeralds to sustain his power. Didn't God Robotnik have the Emeralds in his access the entire time?

If someone can have their power absorbed, that doesn't mean they had finite power, it could simply mean the character can absorb unlimited energy.

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

I think super sonic wins guys

Nah fam, Super Sonic slaps

 

[rawXDglomp]

From what I recall, the reason Super Sonic had limits in Fleetway was when he didn't have the Chaos Emeralds since he needed the Chaos Emeralds to sustain his power. Didn't God Robotnik have the Emeralds in his access the entire time?

Actually double checking this is right. Completely forgot he physicaly still had the emeralds.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Wasn’t God Robotnik also defeated via power absorption or am I misremembering?

 

[Kflare63]

Wasn’t God Robotnik also defeated via power absorption or am I misremembering?

he was, that is correct though it was with the grey chaos emerald

 

[BlastX]

Perfect Chaos started Reality Warping the second he transformed, God Robotnik even showed Super Sonic's eye lasers, Chaos Powers do scale between users.

Super Sonic just never uses them because he is a cocky dick.

 

[Kflare63]

bump