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Except that he has his own?
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Super Sonic vs Ban Midou
- Thread starter MYHERO
- Start date
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I don't really see anything Ban has that Sonic can't just tank via his resistances or type 8 immortality.
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Ban has a bajillion ways to incap people.
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Ban lacks any kind of immortality or high enough Regenerationn to prevent him from getting clapped.
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Being completely honest, given what I've been told about Ban by Earl, Enerjak's reality warping and therefore Sonic's resistances pale in comparison.
Trust me, that's less easy to say than you'd think.
Trust me, that's less easy to say than you'd think.
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Oh, I agree with you, but for completely different reasons. Though I'm curious, what impressive feats of reality warping has Enerjak shown?
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Till GB's stats are agreed on fights with them are pretty pointless.
Although i'm pretty sure Ban just Jagans and calls it a day.
Although i'm pretty sure Ban just Jagans and calls it a day.
ShakeResounding
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Oh yeah, pretty sure this is a stomp.
Midou resists everything Sonic can throw at him and most of his passives minus Holy Manip (or maybe 1 or 2 more) and can negate his Immortality. If Midou's Jagan doesn't run on anything evil/negative, then Sonic's Holy Manip is worthless. And depending on how potent his Fate Manip is and how fast he uses his Jagan (since I don't know the character), it's probably a stomp. Unless Shadow has something to go against that, then that's probably what it is.
Midou resists everything Sonic can throw at him and most of his passives minus Holy Manip (or maybe 1 or 2 more) and can negate his Immortality. If Midou's Jagan doesn't run on anything evil/negative, then Sonic's Holy Manip is worthless. And depending on how potent his Fate Manip is and how fast he uses his Jagan (since I don't know the character), it's probably a stomp. Unless Shadow has something to go against that, then that's probably what it is.
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So uh, I looked at Ban's reality warping.
"Using his Jagan he can create virtual realities that were said to be on par with Makubex' virtual reality. His will is able to shape reality and his desires are forced upon it. This means that as long as someone can't imagine something it cannot happe"
I don't see what's so impressive about this when Chaos Control users that are weaker than Enerjak can manipulate and shape reality to their will. Enerjak, besides his statements of omnipotencein b4 someone makes a tier 0 joke and being able to do anything with a thought, is one with the Chaos Force, which is the very concept where all Chaos energy comes from.
@Shake Negating immortality would count as power nullification which Sonic resists.
"Using his Jagan he can create virtual realities that were said to be on par with Makubex' virtual reality. His will is able to shape reality and his desires are forced upon it. This means that as long as someone can't imagine something it cannot happe"
I don't see what's so impressive about this when Chaos Control users that are weaker than Enerjak can manipulate and shape reality to their will. Enerjak, besides his statements of omnipotence
@Shake Negating immortality would count as power nullification which Sonic resists.
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Bans Jagan is a combination of reality warping + like 5 other powers.
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True Enerjak would definitely stomp.
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Waiting for Earl
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@Cal I do remember Enerjak did create a sea around Knuckles for the lols.
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About speed blitzing, as far as I know the rule is that the sole reason a slower character wins against a faster one cannot be because they become faster than them which wouldn't be possible given the actual difference in speed between them
At least that's the reasoning behind the rule, not allowing such a BS situation to be possible, I don't think "slower character is not allowed to outpace the faster character under any circumstance" was ever agreed upon
At least that's the reasoning behind the rule, not allowing such a BS situation to be possible, I don't think "slower character is not allowed to outpace the faster character under any circumstance" was ever agreed upon
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But the logic behind not allowing a slower character to speedblitz a faster character through speed amps in a speed equalized match is because the slower character gets the speed advantage when it would make no sense.
It's similar to how infinite and immeasurable speed characters don't become vulnerable to time stop in speed equalized matches.
It's similar to how infinite and immeasurable speed characters don't become vulnerable to time stop in speed equalized matches.
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Point 1: Hmm i believe we let the Jagan be categorized as Illusion Creation and Dream Manipulation. And about the "sonic resists effects", it's ugh...jagan can inflict just about anything you can think of. Ban uses the jagan to learn all about Sonic and make him believe something which would induce an effect he doesn't resist. Easy as that. Jagan is purely based on beliefs, i don't think sonic resists as much effects as there are beliefs.
Point 2: Why are we arguing the whole speed problem? As long as speed is equal Ban goes first in this form cus speed amp. It just means the match can't be added. Unequalize speed if that makes it better.
Point 3: Jagan doesn't work on potency, it works on complexity. Jagan fools Akabane Kuroudo and Ginji Amano. Let me give you an explanation of how impressive of a feat that is. Ginji Amano was not fooled when Makubex was manipulating the infinity fortress to create illusions and stuff furthermore Ginji and Akabane were both not fooled when The Archiver was beginning to erase all worlds. They were like "oh yeah, that's the right way, those guys are here, those others are there". And to top it off, Akabane is transcendential. He was one of the scientists responsable for creating The Archvier and the whole virtual world. One of the creators of the virtual world was fooled by the jagan which is an ability of the virutal world.Likely surprised like the real author of GB was when he realized 100% of his time and space transcending statements and feats didn't make sense and were not valid
Point 4: Ban has the logic. He just says "i possess higher logic therefore you're immortal but you still die cus the low cannot stand against the high" and like akabane proceeds to slice an immortal dude with a knife cus "lol i can do that". Either that or Ban just uses this:
Verschwinde Geist (Begone Spirit): It's a spell that allows Ban to erase something from existence or choose to send it back to its point of origin (The Archiver).
Point 2: Why are we arguing the whole speed problem? As long as speed is equal Ban goes first in this form cus speed amp. It just means the match can't be added. Unequalize speed if that makes it better.
Point 3: Jagan doesn't work on potency, it works on complexity. Jagan fools Akabane Kuroudo and Ginji Amano. Let me give you an explanation of how impressive of a feat that is. Ginji Amano was not fooled when Makubex was manipulating the infinity fortress to create illusions and stuff furthermore Ginji and Akabane were both not fooled when The Archiver was beginning to erase all worlds. They were like "oh yeah, that's the right way, those guys are here, those others are there". And to top it off, Akabane is transcendential. He was one of the scientists responsable for creating The Archvier and the whole virtual world. One of the creators of the virtual world was fooled by the jagan which is an ability of the virutal world.
Point 4: Ban has the logic. He just says "i possess higher logic therefore you're immortal but you still die cus the low cannot stand against the high" and like akabane proceeds to slice an immortal dude with a knife cus "lol i can do that". Either that or Ban just uses this:
Verschwinde Geist (Begone Spirit): It's a spell that allows Ban to erase something from existence or choose to send it back to its point of origin (The Archiver).
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Summary since most of ^^ was explanations.
Ban takes this unless you unequalize speed.
At that point im not sure. Is it in character for sanic to just snap back to the past? I have no idea how it goes in speed unequalized. But at worst sonic stomps in speed unequal, so this match is a missmatch cus it can't be made fair for either party.
Ban takes this unless you unequalize speed.
At that point im not sure. Is it in character for sanic to just snap back to the past? I have no idea how it goes in speed unequalized. But at worst sonic stomps in speed unequal, so this match is a missmatch cus it can't be made fair for either party.
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Even in unequalized speed, Ban's snake bite (even more in Angel Arm where he is the strongest) strikes whatever place you are, instantly. So unless Sonic as a way to TANK it, it's a pure Oneshot. That's not just for show that Ban stomp everyone when he use his arms. The only thing scaling with his "forms" are the sheer strengh behind. He even passed through parallel dimensions to save someone with it, so...
Also, Snake Bite negates immortality. Most of the Infinite Forteress members could heal very quickly without that. Akabane is a perfect exemple, as he technically "kill" him the only time he fight him fully.
Ban rarely used magic because he does not need to. His sheer combat abilities are more than enough, and someone like Super Sonic dones't really have any counter to him (even Stop time doesn't reaaly work, as Ban can move freely inside the Infinite Fortress "Time Flow"). he wouldn't even have to use his logic.
Point for Ban.
Also, Snake Bite negates immortality. Most of the Infinite Forteress members could heal very quickly without that. Akabane is a perfect exemple, as he technically "kill" him the only time he fight him fully.
Ban rarely used magic because he does not need to. His sheer combat abilities are more than enough, and someone like Super Sonic dones't really have any counter to him (even Stop time doesn't reaaly work, as Ban can move freely inside the Infinite Fortress "Time Flow"). he wouldn't even have to use his logic.
Point for Ban.
ShakeResounding
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If it's a mismatch and either one or the other stomps, or just one, there's no point in voting.
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I vote for Archie Sonic. Since speed is equalized, hax are the reason why, He can resist many mind relative hax thanks to the chaos emeralds (things like illusions and other mind hax shouldn't work on him), he has immortality thanks to the Ancient Walkers watching over him and he has his own innate Fate Manipulation that is considered so powerful that even in his base form a Universal Level character didn't try to take him out despite their large AP differences because of Sonic being in base. Eggman even talks about it as Sonic being the "embodiment of chaos" and being a "consistent inconsistency". So I doubt manipulating fate or anything in between would effect Sonic.
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Actually... Jagan will work. It is specified that it is an illusion strongly enough to affect realit itself. Ban even mentioned in an arc that someone will have his head blowed because of the illusion's effect, just ecause he would think to have killed himself, and it's an assumption made a lot of time in the story. It can actually work other powers, as he did against Fudô's precognition.
While I agree that he has a kind of immortality, Ban will surely begin to kill the Ancient Walkers as a way to destroy him. Using his hands, it's an easy task. He could even use logic to cancel them actually, as he did with Help's existence.
Eggman's assumption, however, is not the case. Shadow himself shall be the "prefect form of life"... But he is not. It's just a matter of speakig, as he uses Chaos Emerald, something that use Chaos Force on sonic's universe.
While I agree that he has a kind of immortality, Ban will surely begin to kill the Ancient Walkers as a way to destroy him. Using his hands, it's an easy task. He could even use logic to cancel them actually, as he did with Help's existence.
Eggman's assumption, however, is not the case. Shadow himself shall be the "prefect form of life"... But he is not. It's just a matter of speakig, as he uses Chaos Emerald, something that use Chaos Force on sonic's universe.
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