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Super Sonic vs Asriel

TheKillerYT said:
I think he was being cocky there since he didnt ser frisk as a threat also remember in neutral route player kills some monsters and asgore so it makes it impossible for flowey to be asriel. He needed the entire underground alive hence the pacifist route
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No, I understand that some of the monsters were dead (Except... well, they don't have to be. You NEED to get the neutral route once before you can get true pacifist. I fought Flowey without hurting a single person and then got the true pacifist ending right after), but the fact he could still absorb some remained. Which would've made him stronger.

You keep making excuses for why he didn't start with soul absorption, but that only proves in-character it's not what he immediately starts with.
 
LaserPrecision said:
No, I understand that some of the monsters were dead (Except... well, they don't have to be. You NEED to get the neutral route once before you can get true pacifist. I fought Flowey without hurting a single person and then got the true pacifist ending right after), but the fact he could still absorb some remained. Which would've made him stronger.
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Pretty sure monster souls are weak asf and only reason they made a change because he had thousands of them.
LaserPrecision said:
You keep making excuses for why he didn't start with soul absorption, but that only proves in-character it's not what he immediately starts with.
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Still he has no reason not to absorb sonic. Also I think humans cannot be absorbed and need to be defeated first right?
 
TheKillerYT said:
Pretty sure monster souls are weak asf and only reason they made a change because he had thousands of them.
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They are compared to humans, but he still had access to thousands of them by the time you face him.
TheKillerYT said:
Still he has no reason not to absorb sonic. Also I think humans cannot be absorbed and need to be defeated first right?
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He has no reason not to attack Sonic normally as he's shown more likely to do.

Yes, they need to be defeated, well, I think anyway. But Asriel defeats you SEVERAL times in both the Asriel Dreemur fight and Omega Flowey fight.
 
LaserPrecision said:
They are compared to humans, but he still had access to thousands of them by the time you face him.
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Thousands is not enough. Every monsters soul combined is equal to 1 human soul
LaserPrecision said:
Yes, they need to be defeated, well, I think anyway. But Asriel defeats you SEVERAL times in both the Asriel Dreemur fight and Omega Flowey fight.
Click to expand...
No actually because frisk never lost a fight since they keep coming back with DT and in asriels fight frisk cannot even die
 
TheKillerYT said:
Thousands is not enough. Every monsters soul combined is equal to 1 human soul
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You can fight Omega Flowey without harming a single monster, you are aware of that, right? He could've absorbed every monster soul but chose not to.
TheKillerYT said:
No actually because frisk never lost a fight since they keep coming back with DT and in asriels fight frisk cannot even die
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You literally just confirmed that Asriel kills Frisk. He destroys their body and they can come back with DT (Tho I think in the fight, it says that HE brings you back to life instead of yourself. Can't remember). He doesn't need to destroy their soul, because if he destroyed their soul, he couldn't absorb them.
 
LaserPrecision said:
You can fight Omega Flowey without harming a single monster, you are aware of that, right? He could've absorbed every monster soul but chose not to.
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Asgore dies in neutral route though?
LaserPrecision said:
You literally just confirmed that Asriel kills Frisk. He destroys their body and they can come back with DT (Tho I think in the fight, it says that HE brings you back to life instead of yourself. Can't remember). He doesn't need to destroy their soul, because if he destroyed their soul, he couldn't absorb them.
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“But it refused” Frisk refuses defeat and Asriel cannot absorb them. I just dont see why asriel wont absorb and end the fight since he doesnt know who sonic is and actually wants to ein
 
LaserPrecision said:
You can fight Omega Flowey without harming a single monster, you are aware of that, right? He could've absorbed every monster soul but chose not to.
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While I have no horse in this race, uh, dude, Flowey literally killed Asgore and nuked his soul right in front of us, he didn't have the chance cause he actually ******* blew it, also Flowey was literally trying to get Frisk to quit by killing them, quite brutally, millions of times.
LaserPrecision said:
Save and Load shouldn't be enough to return Asriel to the Battle field. I dunno if you agree with that or not, but I think the very fact he's only able to load files accessible to him at the time means it has a range limitation. So Sonic's far larger 2-B range with BFR should take care of him.
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Save/Load is like a soft reset to a single point, so if Asriel uses it, he gets to load back to where he was.

Issue is Save/Load is OOC for Asriel cause we didn't see him use it(he was incapable at the time, to my knowledge, but still.)
 
TheKillerYT said:
Asgore dies in neutral route though?

“But it refused” Frisk refuses defeat and Asriel cannot absorb them. I just dont see why asriel wont absorb and end the fight since he doesnt know who sonic is and actually wants to ein
Click to expand...

Does he? It's been a while since I played Undertale. Assuming he has to for neutral route, he still has thousands of souls he could've absorbed to become stronger that he actively chose not to.

Asriel doesn't USE his soul absorption to win fights. He used it as a means to accomplish his goals. He uses attacks to win fights. The very fact that 99.99% of Floweys choice in a fight is to use attacks should override the 2 exceptions that he only chose to do under specific perameters. Not to mention, even if he does start with it, Sonic's win-cons come out faster
 
DaReaperMan said:
Save/Load is like a soft reset to a single point, so if Asriel uses it, he gets to load back to where he was.

Issue is Save/Load is OOC for Asriel cause we didn't see him use it(he was incapable at the time, to my knowledge, but still.)
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I understand how it works, but he can only load files he currently has access to. In other words, he can only activate a load into a timeline if its accessible to him. It wouldn't be accessible to him if he's out of reach. This is the very reason they can only have a finite amount of save's and loads at a time. It should thus have some limitation in terms of range. Otherwise again, he'd be able to recover from any BFR including to like higher dimensions which seems like a NLF. But you are right, I don't recall him using it in the Asriel fight.
 
TheKillerYT said:
Then its a stomp?
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Uhhh, maybe? Asriel can still kill Super Sonic with his attacks due to them attacking the soul. Sonic's just likely to use his win-con before Asriel can kill him. So I'm not entirely sure. I'll look into the stomp match page to see if it is one or not.
 
LaserPrecision said:
While you are free to agree with either side, I do want to say you often seem biased against Undertale. I still agree to Sonic winning, but I am hoping you aren't biased against them as that makes the debate a little one-sided in Sonic's favor.
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I'm not, it was just that people kept coming in and ignoring the arguments for Sonic.
But I'm not voting out of spite or anything, I just voted Sonic for Shake's reasons.
 
TheKillerYT said:
I genuinly think its a stomp
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Going by vs wiki's stomp page, it shouldn't be a stomp. Quoting it directly:
A stomp thread is a VS thread where, for all intents and purposes, one of the characters is unreasonably outmatched by their opponent. Whether it is through a difference in statistics, abilities or even (in very rare cases) skill between the two parties, these matches are heavily one-sided and provide little to no challenge or danger for the winning character.
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Sonic is presented with plenty of challenge in the form of passive paralysis (Which he might end up resisting later on), soul based attacks (Which he has no resistance to, and thus could die to very easily and present a huge threat), and Soul Absorption (If it with this, it would be a game over). That means Sonic is provided with a hefty challenge. It's just Sonic's win-cons are likely to come out right away.

I'll also quote the decisive wins/non-stomp match section of the page

Common Examples of a Decisive/Non-Stomp Match​

  • Both characters have several methods of winning, including options that allow them to win instantly. However, one character can reliably use/activate their winning move(s) first.
  • One character has more ways to win than the other, but the other character wins more times than not due to matchup specifics that allow/cause them to use their winning move(s) immediately.
  • Both characters are otherwise evenly matched in terms of statistics and abilities, but one has regeneration that the other can possibly, but not easily, surmount.
  • One character having a level of regeneration that prevents them from being killed, but the other has an ability that would allow them to win despite the former's level of regeneration, such as mind manipulation, soul manipulation, ect...
Click to expand...
The first two are in play here. Asriel has several ways of winning against Sonic. Sonic can just more reliably activate his first (As they're faster to be applied) and the match specifics cause Sonic to use his win-con immediately (That being Asriel's passive paralysis).

By all means this isn't a stomp. At worst a decisive win. At best, just a normal match that due to specific circumstances Sonic wins more often than not.
 
LaserPrecision said:
Going by vs wiki's stomp page, it shouldn't be a stomp. Quoting it directly:

Sonic is presented with plenty of challenge in the form of passive paralysis (Which he might end up resisting later on), soul based attacks (Which he has no resistance to, and thus could die to very easily and present a huge threat), and Soul Absorption (If it with this, it would be a game over). That means Sonic is provided with a hefty challenge. It's just Sonic's win-cons are likely to come out right away.

I'll also quote the decisive wins/non-stomp match section of the page

The first two are in play here. Asriel has several ways of winning against Sonic. Sonic can just more reliably activate his first (As they're faster to be applied) and the match specifics cause Sonic to use his win-con immediately (That being Asriel's passive paralysis).

By all means this isn't a stomp. At worst a decisive win. At best, just a normal match that due to specific circumstances Sonic wins more often than not.
Click to expand...
I see…sonic FRA then!
 
Guys I didn’t know the thread was already over. Idk how y’all blitzed it that quickly to start a whole new discussion especially when I realized like right after the match was already added lol
 
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