Super Paper Mario slight 2-B downgrade.

[QuasiYuri]

Basically Count Bleck shouldn't be a straight 2-B.

Why? Because his feat is creating the Void, which only became 2-B after a lot of times (the entire game).

One of the most obvious case is that our hero could tank it in the Samurai Kingdom, despite later being a threat to them even with Pure Heart. Or even just the growing size of the Void.

He also only has shown to use some kind of very small voids in his fight, implying he can't just do 2-B attacks at will.

Also you never get powered up against him, the hearts only break his barrier, which could possibly be 2-B because of its similarity to Dimentio's invulnerability.

As such, Bleck should be something like "Low 2-C, 2-B overtime with the Void" and possibly 2-B with barriers.

Maybe Dimentio and others too?

Now if Count Bleck gets downgraded, it could affect Dimentio and the cast, even if it's a bit more complicated.

Dimentio is supposed to remake the world in his own image, implying he would survive the Void.
However I can see one or two explanations to this:
First would be his invulnerability (which is similar to Bleck's barrier), which can't be damaged till the Pure Hearts null it. It is powered by the Chaos Heart and has no anti-feats so far.
Another one would be that the Void would affect everyone but him; but there's not really anything backing this up.

A difference I could find with Bleck's fight is that like you likely already know, Mario and coe are enhanced by the Pure Hearts this time.

However I see two problems with them equating to 2-B in raw power and durability: Why is there a need to null Dimentio's "invicibility" if they are just as strong as he is? Dimentio gets damaged like normal by everyone once it is removed, just like how Bleck was when his barrier was gone.
And if they are 2-B in durability, the Void wouldn't be a treat to them, especially after defeating Dimentio.

While I'm less sure than with Bleck, I think the 2-B rating could be put as "likely" or something because of this kind of problem.

Link change

Dimention links to Paper Mario and not Mario, it has to be changed.

It's not a huge or organised CRT, but just a little something coming from the Void rather than characters.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I think the OP makes sense but god knows this might be controversial.

Don't make this an ugly thread people.

 

[Greenshifter]

Interesting.... following.

 

[ElixirBlue]

DatOneWeeb saw these points and says they are terrible, but he left the wiki after no longer believing in it thanks to the recent Mario CRTs, so this might pass.

I agree with the link changes.

 

[Starsprite53]

Why? Because his feat is creating the Void, which only became 2-B after a lot of times (the entire game).

Ok and? You do realize that the chaos heart is the source of the void,and when the Chaos Heart is perished, The Void goes away as well, regardless of its size,why the heart would be lesser than the void's full extent (whenever overtime or not)

One of the most obvious case is that our hero could tank it in the Samurai Kingdom, despite later being a threat to them even with Pure Heart. Or even just the growing size

Ignoring that Void end-game>>mid-game

He also only has shown to use some kind of very small voids in his fight

These small voids are already his base form's ability idk how this helps anyways

Also you never get powered up against him, the hearts only break his barrier, which could possibly be 2-B because of its similarity to Dimentio's invulnerability.

Oh sure
The four heroes glow with a white aura from the hearts when they're facing count bleck.

However I see two problems with them equating to 2-B in raw power and durability: Why is there a need to null Dimentio's "invicibility" if they are just as strong as he is? Dimentio gets damaged like normal by everyone once it is removed, just like how Bleck was when his barrier was gone.

Why not?,it just make his defeat faster,also negating invulnerability Doesn't always depend on AP but more on hax,that's why its listed as power null
You can be in a higher tier than character X but you can't harm him when he is invulnerable without hax.
The heroes when they're amped should scale to that anyways espacially when the Pure Hearts can null Super Dimentio's invincibility further proves they're stronger.

And if they are 2-B in durability, the Void wouldn't be a treat to them, especially after defeating Dimentio.

Because they don't want everyone else they care for being erased from existence

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

List that it's 2-B through chain reactions if you really want to downgrade him

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

I agree with Star-Sprite as well

 

[QuasiYuri]

Ok and? You do realize that the chaos heart is the source of the void,and when the Chaos Heart is perished, The Void goes away as well, regardless of its size,why the heart would be lesser than the void's full extent (whenever overtime or not)

Except that we tier overtime feats differently.
If Chaos Heart is already 2-B in itself, why doesn't it just summon 2-B Void directly?
I don't really see how that is any different from stuff like Avatar of Calamity.

Also you're not understanding my point flr Samurai Kingdom issue. Thing is that it takes a whole game for it to becomes 2-B, and this kind of overtime feats doesn't just give you the max tier (see the avatar).

Also they just glow because they made them appear, but no mention of boost. While againt Dimentio it is stated that this time they were enhanced by them.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"2-B via Chain Reaction" wouldn't scale to fight nor would it be something he could use in a versus thread without prep time.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Also you never get powered up against him, the hearts only break his barrier, which could possibly be 2-B because of its similarity to Dimentio's invulnerability.

It actually is stated the Pure Hearts amped the heroes.

 

[QuasiYuri]

It actually is stated the Pure Hearts amped the heroes.

It's against Dimentio, not Bleck.

 

[Ican'tthinkof1goodname]

Pixi didn't explain what (s)he meant by we exactly

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Also unless it’s specifically stated the Void would destroy every universe one by one or something I don’t think it should be downgraded

 

[QuasiYuri]

Also unless it’s specifically stated the Void would destroy every universe one by one or something I don’t think it should be downgraded

That's not really my point here. Avatar of Calamity isn't destroying universes one by one but it is still "will become 2-A".
The Void follows the same idea.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Following

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I could potentially see this as a “would eventually become 2-B” type of deal.

 

[Antvasima]

@Dino_Ranger_Black @The_real_cal_howard @DarkDragonMedeus @GyroNutz

What do you think about this?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I disagree with the OP's proposal.

First of all, there is a misunderstanding about how the Void functions; it is not a "Chain reaction" but rather the Chaos Heart is actively expanding it to the point where it eventually becomes physically larger than the multiverse. This isn't a whole, "Being amped by a giant pool of energy doesn't mean all of it scales to your physical stats", it's the other way around. The Chaos Heart is the one what has the pool of energy thus the Void is mere fraction of the Chaos Heart's true power. The Void eats the multiverse by expanding endlessly. And once it's large enough to eat 1001 universe, the size of the void would already be 2-B sized.

However, it is actually much larger than that. While, "Over time feats" are things people normally wouldn't fully scale, even the timeframe division would still make it well into 2-B. It literally takes a few days to devourer the multiverse at max, and the first universe it devoured was devoured instantly. So it's safe to consider it is growing and devouring universes at a rapid rate. And this is not counting the size of function of how the Mario multiverse works; it is consistently stated their exists and endless or Innumerable amount of universes; thus making the feat massively above baseline. And on top of its already massive size, the multiverse is always constantly expanding itself where new worlds are always constantly being born every day. Between the Dream Depot turning dreams into universes every day, even characters from dreams also have dreams, even characters in the afterlife dream every day, and even atoms and molecules in the Mario multiverse are sentient lifeforms who dream according to Bowser's Inside Story. The Void would also have to devourer the multiverse faster than it expands itself in order to successfully destroy the multiverse to begin with. Which would already be massive degrees of 2-B period. Even the universes per second if we want to go that route would still be well into 2-B however we look at it.

Also, Invulnerability is NLF by our new standards; it something we only give if it's implied that it nulls AP to the point where even most attacks less than 1-A would give no damage as a default. Though there are various versions of Invulnerability as well as hax to null it, but I think that's far more assumptive then the fact that physically fusing with the Chaos Heart that grants them powers superior to the Void and is the very source of the Void's true power actually amps their durability. And while Bleck never wanted to recreate the multiverse only wanting to die with it due to missing Timpani, Dimentio knew about this fact but played out in his favor. He was actually going to remake the multiverse which is a 2-B creation feat as well as a durability feat. Also, Dimentio overlooked a detail with the Pure Hearts. He assumed it was something that can only be done with the 4 party members are united and that it could only be used once; hence why he brainwashed and merged with Luigi, but into becoming Mr L again. But the Pure Hearts are powered by Love and can be used time and time again, as well as it's raw power actively surpassing the Chaos Heart. Also, they defeated Bleck the same way they defeated Dimentio, so if it's raw power being amped in one, it's the same in both.

Also, some people seemed confused on verse comparisons, but I think a better example of how Super Dimentio's tier works would be similar to how Exdeath is rated in his Neo Exdeath form. They are physically merged with the multiverse eating Void, not just simply having a connection to it that it destroys everything including them.

So in other words, I disagree. But Dino Ranger Black may know more details.

 

[Antvasima]

You seem to make sense to me. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Infera28]

I agree with DarkDragonMedeus

 

[Antvasima]

So have these suggestions been rejected then?

 

[GyroNutz]

I also disagree with this. The void destroying Sammer's Kingdom was not an individual attack from the Chaos Heart, the void was still expanding in every other area. Like DDM says, the only thing that the heart was increasing in was the range to be able to affect and destroy all worlds, not potency. Also the Pure Hearts countered the Void at its "peak", which are equal in potency to the Chaos Heart.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the input. So should we close this thread?

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

I also disagree. In addition, there was a cut scene that shown after Super Dimentio being form. The worlds was instantly being destroyed and the Purity Heart (AKA The Pure Hearts and the Chaos Heart's equal) restored them all at once too. There's no chain reaction with either feat involved.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. This seems to have been rejected then.