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Super Paper Mario Revisions

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The Raphael constellation feat by itself isn't High 4-C (It's jist regular 4-C iirc since there's not enough stars for High 4-C), but it's a extra feat to help back it up. There's the linked 9.88 foe feat Power Stars feat, Power Stars can also create pocket realms with a sun and constellations with several stars (Both feats this site treats as High 4-C) and Mario can beat bosses empowered by said Power Stars.
 
I don't think is wise to scale Mario to the Black Holes of Super Mario Galaxy since Mario is always one-shoot by them even with a star

He actualy gets one-shoot by them in both Galaxy games, falling into them is insta death
 
Dust Collector said:
The Raphael constellation feat by itself isn't High 4-C (It's jist regular 4-C iirc since there's not enough stars for High 4-C), but it's a extra feat to help back it up. There's the linked 9.88 foe feat Power Stars feat, Power Stars can also create pocket realms with a sun and constellations with several stars (Both feats this site treats as High 4-C) and Mario can beat bosses empowered by said Power Stars.
Click to expand...
How does this an extra if there isn't calculation that attests the level of feat? Without calculation you can't say anything about it, for it's not a clear feat of destruction or creation of an object. Regardless of reinforcing or not, calc needed.

Edwardtruong2006 said:
Constellations are High 4-C
Click to expand...
Ok, but why? Do you have a calc?
 
@TheUser, it's the High 3-A gravity that oneshots the cast, not the creation of the Black holes. Creating the Black holes is still a High 4-C feat, same with Bowser while depleted of Grand Star Powers surviving Supernovas. And the Constellation feat is still High 4-C because although there is only one star, the blast that formed it would still be High 4-C sized. Also, the yellow lines forming the image of Raphael the Raven would still have to be something.
 
Are you refering to the end of the first Mario Galaxy? Because we only see Bowser after Rosalina resets the universe and a mannual states that Bowser barely escaped his fate, suggesting he couldn't tank it, even Bowser's airships and Peach's Castle appear just fine after the universal reset even though Peach's Castle was very close to a Black Hole and we see Bowser's airships be destroyed yet they appear just fine afterwards
 
No, not the undering, he's fought three times in both Galaxy games. And even the non-ending fights showcase him surviving supernovas. And it was the Universal big bang is what he couldn't tank, not the general Supernovas.
 
They weren't Supernovas, they were only stars that he fell into, he only has to tank the heat, though I could be renembering wrong, but I don't renember Supernovas but just falling into stars, which required Bowser to only survive their heat
 
The stars explode the moment after he gets launched into the stars. And ending of Mario Galaxy two is another universal feat that he does survive this time, but it's an outlier.
 
Really, could you post a scan please? Not doubting you, just that I really don't renember they exploding
 
Okay, I actualy looked into it and the only time he falls into a star is in the final battle here (3:50) and we see Bowser on top of it on the ending which I talked about in my earlier post, now I will look into Super Mario Galaxy 2
 
In Galaxy 2 the only time Bowser falls into something is here (38:56) which isn't a star neither a supernova. Just to make clear I am not saying he isn't 4-C, he still is via other feats, just that he actualy never survived a supernova, the closest thing is what happened at the end of Galaxy, though after the supernova we only see him after Rosalina resets the universe, and the mannual implies that he barely escaped his certain fate

i (2:07) the (2:00) other (14:08) fights (22:40) he just falls into a plataform
 
Also in the mario and Luigi series the should have probability manipulation or luck via stache and stache equipment. And at lvl 100 can acquire a lucky hit 100%
 
Lucky Hits is just game mechanics, that's not probability manipulation nor supernatural luck.
 
Ah, I forgot for a moment. I was curious to know what that would be categorized as because the Merchant class from Octopath Traveler has a spell called Sidestep that does something similar. It could just be statistics amplification in the form of reaction speed, but not sure what else.
 
@NotAMarioFan That would be Statistics Amplification since it increases envasion.

@Theuser As far as I'm concern, the legend stated that the 4 heroes will use the Pure Hearts to save all world. It's never stated that it needs all four heroes to be present in order for it to be used by them or at least believe to be the case. After all, if Count Bleck was able to summon them through the mere connection btw him and his minions. It's only logically that the Mario, Peach, and debatably Bowser, should be able to use it via the platonic, romantic, or family relationships they had througout the series. Espsecially since Luigi isn't present due to the fact he merged with the Chaos Heart and Dimentio.
 
There's also the fact that Tippi and Blumiere revitalize the hearts even though they and the hearts are trapped in Dimension D, while the heroes are in Count Bleck's castle.
 
It is actualy stated that they need to be present to actualy work, again when Mario fought Bleck even with all of them he couldn't even scratch his cape, only when Luigi and Co came back the Pure Hearts worked, also Merlee's statment clearly refers to only when the four heroes are reunited shall they defeat the Chaos Heart, the love only restored them via love because they were powerless, but they were only used against Dimentio when Tippi brought them back to Mario and Co, they simply restored their power which is a diferent thing them actualy using them, Luigi is still present, the statment refers to the heroes being reunited but not how, Luigi still was there.

If Mario can use the Pure Hearts by himself them why didn't he beat Bleck by himself, why didn't he break the shield, and why did the Pure Hearts break the shield only when the Heroes came back, that Bleck even restated the statment, please explain that, Bleck didn't actualy summon them, Dimentio send them to Dimension D after they were used against Bleck and remained powerless, then their love restored their power, but using them is diferent them restoring them, the Pure Hearts still had their power when Mario fought Bleck and they still only broke the Chaos Heart barrier when the Heroes came back.

Here's (2:54) the scene, it's clear that the Pure Hearts only worked when the Heroes came back

Merlee's statment is also very clear I will quote it " a heart of chaos can only be beatten by four of mystery, four heroes unite they hope burns forth light to shatter the walls of blight" Bleck even repeats this when Luigi and Co come back and then the Pure Hearts break Bleck's barrier

The only reason I bring this up is because Mario couldn't beat Bleck even with all of the Pure Hearts before the rest came back, if he could use them by himself them why didn't he beat Bleck?
 
Why plot armor? It's implied that they worked when the Heroes came back, and this is the only time Mario has to use the Pure Hearts by himself, and they don't work, you need to explain why it's plot armor and not proof that the heroes need to be united as Merlee says, they do work when the rest comes back to help Mario, so it isn't plot armor but the fact that they work when the Heroes are reunited

There's even a music for the four heroes being united as well that plays on the scene, and the name refers to Merlee's statment of the heroes unite as well, being called The Four Heroes Unite
 
@Theuser789 You are asking too many question that all basically can be summed up with one answer: That simply what was the initial thought. Because just like it was believe it can only be used once, it's also believe that only the four heroes could need to be present because of the philosophy. However, both cases were proven wrong since Mario, Peach, and Bowser were still able to use them without Luigi and it turns out with the Power of Love, the Pure Hearts would never dissapte hence why was Dimentio was very surprised and the rest of the cast preached about changing their fate and destinies and all that cliche. This was even brought up before the finale, for a small price though. Luigi was merged with the Chaos Heart at the time, so he isn't present. Count Bleck and his minions did indeed summon the Pure Hearts because of the feelings they have for each other. Since all the answers are literally in the final battle which also debunk most of these claims, it sorta feels like you are actively ignoring them since these scenes happens immediately after the Count Bleck battle you kept bringing up. It's not difficult to understand, really.
 
They can only be used once, the power of love recharged them, but without that they can only be used once, that was never really debunked, it's just that Dimentio didn't knew that the power of love can bring their power back, but he wasn't wrong, they can only be used once without recharges.

Again the final battle doesn't debunk what I said, Luigi still was there, the statment refers to all the heroes being reunited but not how the heroes need to be, Luigi being brainwhased, fused, etc. doesn't change the fact that he was there, the prophesy never said that the four heroes being reunited means no fusion or brainwhased or whatever, the statment is very vague, like they only being used once.

I am not ignoring them, let's recap everything, Mario fights Bleck by himself, the hearts don't work until the rest of the heroes come back, they beat Bleck, Dimentio betrays him, says that the hearts can only be used once, sends them, Bleck, his minions and Tippi to Dimension D, merged with the Chaos Heart and Luigi, in Dimension D Bleck's love for his minions restores the hearts, Tippi brings them to Mario, Mario uses them to beat Dimentio, then Bleck and Tippi marriage restores the worlds and stop Dimentio final attack.

There's nothing debunking the statment, the Pure Hearts can only be used once without a recharge, the prophesy never mentioned that, both times after they were used they needed the love for something to power them, first was the love of Bleck and his minions, and then was Tippi's and Bleck's love, the statment isn't really debunked just like the one about the four heroes, it's true in a way, the statment says that the four heroes need to be reunited and just that, Luigi being Super Dimentio is still Luigi in a way, nothing in the statment says that the heroes can't be merged or fused in something when reunited, even after they defeat Super Dimentio he literaly spits Luigi outside of him, suggesting that Luigi was inside of him, not contradicting the prophesy in a way, it's kinda of a loophole.

Since you say what happens debunk what I am saying them let's ser what happens after the Bleck fight, Bleck and his minions restores the hearts, not use them, no contradiction, Tippi brings the hearts to Mario and they use them, no contradiction, Luigi was literaly inside Super Dimentio since he literaly spits him out after being defeat, then the wedding scene, all heroes were there, no contradiction.

But on the other side the only time we see someone use the hearts without the heroes in any intrepretartion, they don't work, which you still didn't explain why they didn't work, meanwhile I explaneid why they worked on the Dimentio fight

Here's (12:32) Dimentio spiting Luigi out, suggesting he was there, so no contradiction there, it's more of a loophole
 
The only reason Mario didn't use them against Bleck is that he never attempted to use them, and/or didn't know how to use them at the time. But then they were used with the 4 of them united. But the battle with Super Dimentio does debunk the statement. Sure Luigi was there, but he was using the Chaos Heart, and didn't have free will at the time due to merging with Dimentio. But it was just Mario, Peach, and Bowser that were actively using the Pure Hearts and it was the Power of love that fueled them. Without the Power of Love, they can be used only once. But with Power of Love, it can be used much more than that and the four don't have to be united.
 
How did Mario not know how to use them by himself but suddenly learned so after the four heroes were reunited, for Mario they were dead, so he why didn't he use them in the fight, and how did he suddenly want to use them after they were united but not before, and the cutscene implies that the Pure Hearts acted on their own after their reunion as well

The prophesy says the four heroes need to be united, not that they need to be using the hearts or needing free will, again a loophole, they were united, so fulling the conditions, no contradiction, even if they were knocked out, brainwhased, etc. they still are united fulling the conditions, they just need to be united

They can be used more than once with the power of love, true, but they need to be united true in order to use them, but how they are united is not important
 
The prophecy is retconned, and repeating it is just wasting time and energy at this point. And Mario was on his own and thus didn't have the Power of Love by his side, but he did when his friends where fine. But again, even without Luigi, all it takes is the Power of Love to fuel the Pure Hearts which can then be used indefinitely so as long as the Power of Love is fuelling it.
 
Actualy Merlee's statment wasn't in the prophesy, she mentions this fact when telling about the four heroes.

AndI feel like there's a small misunderstanding here, I am not saying that the four heroes need to be fighting togheter for them to work, but only being united, for example let's imagine that Mario is fighting a random enemy that is 2-B, if Peach, Luigi, Bowser are there in the room but knocked out/trapped, the Pure Hearts will work and Mario will be 2-B even though he is fighting alone, because the heroes are reunited, but if they aren't there they won't work, the Super Dimentio fight was the former while the Bleck fight was the later, Mario can use the hearts by himself if the heroes are united, he doesn't need to fight with them for it to work, only being united, if it was fighting togheter the Super Dimentio fight would debunk it.

Also Mario had Tippi and the Pixels, so he wasn't alone
 
@Theuser Sorry but this is a clear case of quantity overall quality because all that unnecessary long text doesn't amount to anything since just basically a longer repetition of what you said earlier and the answer is still simple case of "initial thought and beliefs". I'm going to end it here since I don't want to sound like a broken record and the topic have gone on long enough. The Pure Hearts weren't "recharged". It was believe it can be used once and thus disappear because Mario and co. did not know that. However, after the is debunked because Count Bleck and his minion's strong connection were able to call them. It was state that the Power of Love is infinite, with the Pure Hearts never ceasing to exist as long it remains. Luigi is indeed part of Super Dimentio, but that's the thing, he united with Dimentio and the Chaos Heart. Not with the heroes and the Pure Hearts during the battle with Count Bleck. And because of this, Dimentio was even surprised they were able to surpass the prophecy. In other word, it does not mean the Pure Hearts only worked because of his presence, especially when it was only used on 3 out of 4 of them which if you remember, also required all their hopes together to shater the wall, in the same dialouge you kept bringing up. In short, these are limitations turns out not to be the case in the final battle and the Pure Hearts can be used beyond what they are prophesied to. It just sounds like you are trying so hard to invoke limitations the items no longer have.
 
Theuser789 said:
AndI feel like there's a small misunderstanding here, I am not saying that the four heroes need to be fighting togheter for them to work, but only being united, for example let's imagine that Mario is fighting a random enemy that is 2-B, if Peach, Luigi, Bowser are there in the room but knocked out/trapped, the Pure Hearts will work and Mario will be 2-B even though he is fighting alone, because the heroes are reunited, but if they aren't there they won't work, the Super Dimentio fight was the former while the Bleck fight was the later, Mario can use the hearts by himself if the heroes are united, he doesn't need to fight with them for it to work, only being united, if it was fighting togheter the Super Dimentio fight would debunk it.
Click to expand...
I am going to quote this again since it responds to your posts.

And they didn't dissapear, they turned grey without power as you can see here (5:16), he believes they could be used once because they lose their power after usage

I am not really imposing a limit to them, it wasn't a initial though, the heroes need to unite, which they had, you kinda repeated yourself and ignored some of my points as well.

Anyways the post quoted explaneid what I have in mind, I feel like the disagreement comes from there
 
Back on the topic of bowser not reviving, in Bowsers Inside Story he gets crushed 3 (4?) times during the game and Mario and luigi have to go to rump command do to it manually. If the infinite lives thing had continuity this wouldn't be necessary.
 
Actualy I was wrong, what is really needed is the love, they worked because the love for his friends shared the wall, you were actualy right about that and I was wrong, I was fixated on a quote and ignored the context. Mario only needs love to work, that's why it didn't work the first time because he believed they were dead, but seeing them back gave him the love to make the hearts work, though a enemy that can remove feelings from someone might make the hearts not work since the person needs to feel love for something so that they can work

The statment only really refered to the actual scene that it happened, not that it needs them to be reunited, only love is necessary
 
@Wokistan, Bowser never "died" in any of those instances, he was simply pinned.

@NotAMarioFan, not sure if they have any notable AP feats. They got wish granting powers and reality warping for sure, but there's no direct confirmation of it being comparable to various other wish granting objects such as the Dream Stone.
 
The interface for his body turned red, you're said to have to "revive" him, despite being strong enough to lift these things bowser was immobilized, pretty sure he dead and Nintendo just can't say the D word without getting T rating.
 
"Revive" can be used as a metaphor for curing someone of paralysis and/or petrification. Plenty of Mario characters have also lived in a pancaked state also. I'm also pretty sure that Mario and Luigi and many of Bowser's organs would also be "Dead" if Bowser was. But the fact is, they aren't dead and you can still talk to some of his cells during the state of Bowser being pancaked.
 
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