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Super Mario General Discussion Thread.

Chariot190 said:
Was talking with Armor, prob make Pauline a profile, and then slip each them into each other's standard equipment for that key. Kinda like Navi being in Link's equipment, and then just elaborate in tech section.
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Makes sense

ShakeResounding said:
Me as well, the match-up potential will be legendary if when the Bros get out of nigh-Baseline High 6-A. Unless there's some standard about needing 3 minimum, which I don't think there is?

That makes me question though, would that Team Page for then technically have two iterations? One for the regular bros and one for the Paper Bros?
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Doubled check the standard format for team pages and unless I'm blind didn't see anything about a profile needing at least 3 so can't see why a Mario Bros. page wouldn't be fine. They check off all the requirements pretty nicely. Don't think the paper versions would get a iteration. Unlike the mainline bros they very rarely team up, the games even go out of their way to establish Mario doesn't really bring Luigi along for most of his adventures (Love the games to death but the way they sidelined Luigi was crazy even by the standards of the franchise at the time lmao)
 
ShakeResounding said:
Unless there's some standard about needing 3 minimum, which I don't think there is?
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I don't think so, no. You could actually just use them in a match together right now since duo matches are allowed without a team profile, but there's a fairly big amount of M&L stuff they can only do together, so there'd be a good reason for it to exist.
 
That's right, I sometimes forget people can fight together as long as it's either a constant thing in-verse or iconic for them to do so (Mario and Luigi, Sonic and Tails, Goku and Vegeta, etc.).

I do think team/duo/partner matches are both highly underrated and underappreciated. Maybe it's because I've been here for so long, but standard 1v1 matches get a little stale after a while (with plenty of exceptions). I've noticed that more gimmicky matches breathe a fresh life into Versus threads more often than not.

Sonic vs Mario vs Crash vs whoever racing matches WHEN?
 
So was the timeline oddity with Pauline ever explained or nah? It’s really weird because the game goes out of its way to constantly pay homage to earlier DK games and establish them as happening before this game, including Cranky being the OG DK, so Cranky would’ve kidnapped an adult Pauline long before the events of the DKC series. The only thing I can think of is that Pauline mentions her grandma a lot which could potentially be the original Pauline, which would make most DK games be set over a decade before the main Mario stuff. Idk if there’s anything in the DK games that would contradict this, or if there’s anything that contradicts Jumpman not being Mario, but this would be my best guess right now.

I know some people will say that Mario lore isn’t meant to make sense, but the way Pauline is written in this game feels like a backstory for her present self, and the way she’s gotten a lot of attention since Odyssey it seems weird to potentially completely retcon any story that’s featured her by just making her a kid in present times now. Not to mention she showed up in Mario Kart World as an adult just a month ago which is where they debuted the current DK design, so if they’re really rebooting some stuff why save kid Pauline for Bananza instead of World? He appearance in Bananza is framed like a mystery, but if she was in World it’d be obvious they’re just retconning stuff and there’s no deeper mystery.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
So was the timeline oddity with Pauline ever explained or nah? It’s really weird because the game goes out of its way to constantly pay homage to earlier DK games and establish them as happening before this game, including Cranky being the OG DK, so Cranky would’ve kidnapped an adult Pauline long before the events of the DKC series. The only thing I can think of is that Pauline mentions her grandma a lot which could potentially be the original Pauline, which would make most DK games be set over a decade before the main Mario stuff. Idk if there’s anything in the DK games that would contradict this, or if there’s anything that contradicts Jumpman not being Mario, but this would be my best guess right now.

I know some people will say that Mario lore isn’t meant to make sense, but the way Pauline is written in this game feels like a backstory for her present self, and the way she’s gotten a lot of attention since Odyssey it seems weird to potentially completely retcon any story that’s featured her by just making her a kid in present times now. Not to mention she showed up in Mario Kart World as an adult just a month ago which is where they debuted the current DK design, so if they’re really rebooting some stuff why save kid Pauline for Bananza instead of World? He appearance in Bananza is framed like a mystery, but if she was in World it’d be obvious they’re just retconning stuff and there’s no deeper mystery.
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Admittedly, there still seems to be some uncertainty, but I did watch a timeline video yesterday that suggested it's something like this: Pauline is actually the granddaughter of Lady from the original Donkey Kong arcade game similar to how current DK is the grandson of the original DK (aka Cranky Kong), and since the postgame gives direct allusions to Pauline's role in Odyssey that likely means that yes, the Donkey Kong series canonically takes place before the mainline Mario series. Also, a billboard that shows up in New Donk City at the end of Bananza appears to be advertising something called "Lady and the Kong" (a stageplay maybe?), presumably based on the story of the original Donkey Kong arcade game.
 
mario got stuck in the past for a while so the one mario rule remains consistent for the main series
 
Mario used the Time Machine from Mario's Time Machine on MS-DOS, NES, and SNES to go back in time and be Jumpman in DK arcade
 
Isn't it odd how only now dudes are going "mario cant be jumpman", even tho DK the 3rd and Mario being the exact same age has been a thing since the 2000s (Yoshi) and Cranky has been DK's grandp for like, 30 years?
Like why only NOW in the big 25.
Modern Mario and Cranky coexisting in the same game hasnt made sense since DKC1 as that would make Mario much older than DK (the 3rd) given DK (the 3rd) wasn't even born yet, as evidenced by DK Jr, let alone the exact same age as Mario.
 
Chariot190 said:
Chariot190 said:
Isn't it odd how only now dudes are going "mario cant be jumpman", even tho DK the 3rd and Mario being the exact same age has been a thing since the 2000s (Yoshi) and Cranky has been DK's grandp for like, 30 years?
Like why only NOW in the big 25.
Modern Mario and Cranky coexisting in the same game hasnt made sense since DKC1 as that would make Mario much older than DK (the 3rd) given DK (the 3rd) wasn't even born yet, as evidenced by DK Jr, let alone the exact same age as Mario.
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I mean, A LOT of statements and confirmations, like look Super Mario odyssey festival.
 
Chariot190 said:
Isn't it odd how only now dudes are going "mario cant be jumpman", even tho DK the 3rd and Mario being the exact same age has been a thing since the 2000s (Yoshi) and Cranky has been DK's grandp for like, 30 years?
Like why only NOW in the big 25.
Modern Mario and Cranky coexisting in the same game hasnt made sense since DKC1 as that would make Mario much older than DK (the 3rd) given DK (the 3rd) wasn't even born yet, as evidenced by DK Jr, let alone the exact same age as Mario.
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Up until now, I was under the assumption that Nintendo kinda retconned Mario being Jumpman as soon as modern DK was coexisting with Mario and Jumpman was just a different dude (my headcanon was that arcade Pauline and Jumpman were the grandmother and grandfather of there respective modern counterparts [wanna specify that I didn't think arcade Pauline and Jumpman hooked up in case that wasn't clear], the Mario movie almost directly showing that Jumpman was a different guy kinda reaffirmed this to me). But the new Nintendo statement threw a wrench into that theory. Best I've got is that when they said Jumpman was Mario, it actually meant that either his name was Mario and they just shared a name like DK and Cranky, or that it was referring to Mario as a surname like in the LA Mario movie.
 
The Kongs are a species of cartoon apes that aren't actually apes? also Kong family relations are strange almost fundamentally so given how inconsistent they are be it Cranky and Donkey Kong's, Donkey and Diddy Kong's relationship seriously at some point it seems that they decided most of the exact relations are arbitrary. Given that the name of the main group of Kongs varies from Kong Family and Kong Crew given on several occasions it is implied members of the group aren't related. Sometimes they are even called a clan and clans are often defined by kinship and family like relationships. It's possible that the relationships the Kongs have with each other are more based how they view each then how they are literally connected as a group.
 
Lou_change said:
The Kongs are a species of cartoon apes that aren't actually apes? also Kong family relations are strange almost fundamentally so given how inconsistent they are be it Cranky and Donkey Kong's, Donkey and Diddy Kong's relationship seriously at some point it seems that they decided most of the exact relations are arbitrary. Given that the name of the main group of Kongs varies from Kong Family and Kong Crew given on several occasions it is implied members of the group aren't related. Sometimes they are even called a clan and clans are often defined by kinship and family like relationships. It's possible that the relationships the Kongs have with each other are more based how they view each then how they are literally connected as a group.
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But all apes defy the laws of physics, remember?
 
Are multiplayer modes useable for indexing? Pauline gets a couple useful things from Bananza’s 2P mode. She can hurt enemies/bosses* by shouting words at them (giving her High 6-A scaling and a projectile attack), and can also “scan” different materials to infuse into those words which then have similar functionality to the material she copied (sticking to walls, exploding, etc). The scanning thing is kinda weird but also a cool ability.

*Wanted to note that so far I’ve only seen footage of this ability used against King K. Rool’s first transformation, as well as against weaker materials like dirt and fractonium. I’m not sure how it interacts with other stuff, however I would assume it at the very least harms stuff like the Void Co. Kongs or anything not protected by a stronger material (like the cores of bosses). If the 2P stuff is useable I’ll look into seeing what else her shout ability can harm, just to make sure she has consistent scaling.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Are multiplayer modes useable for indexing? Pauline gets a couple useful things from Bananza’s 2P mode. She can hurt enemies/bosses* by shouting words at them (giving her High 6-A scaling and a projectile attack), and can also “scan” different materials to infuse into those words which then have similar functionality to the material she copied (sticking to walls, exploding, etc). The scanning thing is kinda weird but also a cool ability.

*Wanted to note that so far I’ve only seen footage of this ability used against King K. Rool’s first transformation, as well as against weaker materials like dirt and fractonium. I’m not sure how it interacts with other stuff, however I would assume it at the very least harms stuff like the Void Co. Kongs or anything not protected by a stronger material (like the cores of bosses). If the 2P stuff is useable I’ll look into seeing what else her shout ability can harm, just to make sure she has consistent scaling.
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Can't see any issues with using the stuff Pauline gets in the 2P mode myself
 
So given the events of DK Bananza
Do you think the citizens and politicians of New Donk City have regular debates about whether or not it's ok for one of their streets to be named after K.Rool?
r0f6t3o9cxm21.jpg
 
Dust_Collector said:
So given the events of DK Bananza
Do you think the citizens and politicians of New Donk City have regular debates about whether or not it's ok for one of their streets to be named after K.Rool?
r0f6t3o9cxm21.jpg
Click to expand...
No cuz like that's a street named after an omnicidal terrorist
 
Randomly globally banned on fandom for like 2 hours lmao cool system they got.

Anyway digging around jp stuff for the series, the official website when listing descriptions for the main cast (Which includes a normal Boo for some reason?) only Bowser and DK are noted to have "superhuman strength". Nothing new, everyone already knew they were the top 2 in raw strength among the main characters but it does put into perspective how strong they are compared to the others when even Wario doesn't get a statement for his strength like that. But what this truly means is we need to downgrade everyone to 10-B / 10-A with only Bowser and DK being 9-C for being the only ones to be superhuman.

Been mostly digging to see if we can try and quantify exactly how much stronger they are then everyone else instead of their currently "stronger to a vauge extent" status. Bowser in particular is hard to nail down since the gap between him and people like Mario depends on the game. The gap between them is much bigger in the mainline platformers than it is in the RPGs for example.
 
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Dust_Collector said:
Randomly globally banned on fandom for like 2 hours lmao cool system they got.

Anyway digging around jp stuff for the series, the official website when listing descriptions for the main cast (Which includes a normal Boo for some reason?) only Bowser and DK are noted to have "superhuman strength". Nothing new, everyone already knew they were the top 2 in raw strength among the main characters but it does put into perspective how strong they are compared to the others when even Wario doesn't get a statement for his strength like that. But what this truly means is we need to downgrade everyone to 10-B / 10-A with only Bowser and DK being 9-C for being the only ones to be superhuman.

Been mostly digging to see if we can try and quantify exactly how much stronger they are then everyone else instead of their currently "stronger to a vauge extent" status. Bowser in particular is hard to nail down since the gap between him and people like Mario depends on the game. The gap is clearly between them is much bigger in the mainline platformers than it is in the RPGs for example.
Click to expand...
I mean, makes sense, you have moments like the cinematics in some Mario spinoff where you can see Donkey Kong just dunking on Wario with like one punch, and Bowser is normally portrayed as superior to basically everyone multiple times
 
Dust_Collector said:
Been mostly digging to see if we can try and quantify exactly how much stronger they are then everyone else instead of their currently "stronger to a vauge extent" status. Bowser in particular is hard to nail down since the gap between him and people like Mario depends on the game. The gap is clearly between them is much bigger in the mainline platformers than it is in the RPGs for example.
Click to expand...
You could use Mario & Luigi only fighting a 50% Dark Star and weakened Dark Fawful while Bowser fights a 100% Dark Bowser and full power Dark Fawful, though Bowser was probably amped by the Bros. stimulating his body as they easily beat him in the credits. That might still be useful as a cap on how much stronger than Mario he could be, though.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
You could use Mario & Luigi only fighting a 50% Dark Star and weakened Dark Fawful while Bowser fights a 100% Dark Bowser and full power Dark Fawful, though Bowser was probably amped by the Bros. stimulating his body as they easily beat him in the credits. That might still be useful as a cap on how much stronger than Mario he could be, though.
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Might be misrembering, but don't the amps he gets from them stimulating his body mostly temporary unless it's specific like giving him new abilities? Pretty sure for stuff like his strength amps specifically he goes back to his normal levels seconds after the inital amp given his muscles go back to their normal size and such.
 
Dust_Collector said:
Might be misrembering, but don't the amps he gets from them stimulating his body mostly temporary unless it's specific like giving him new abilities? Pretty sure for stuff like his strength amps specifically he goes back to his normal levels seconds after the inital amp given his muscles go back to their normal size and such.
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So I was gonna go on a tirade about how Bowser’s dark power enemies are narratively much stronger than Mario & Luigi’s yet he himself never beats them in both their Toad Town fight and credits fight, which would probably mean that Bowser’s stimulation amps don’t instantly dissipate and last a bit longer. However when collecting the scans needed to show that, I realised I missed a detail that makes the scaling chain a bit more logical.

For the Dark Star fight, it had already absorbed some of Bowser’s genetic code and grows in size when the battle begins, which may suggest that copying Bowser’s genetic code makes it generally stronger. In the remake Dark Bowser is only formed after the fight when the Dark Star explodes and begins sucking in more of Bowser’s genetic code, with him also proclaiming he has “not enough [power]”, which basically confirms that the Dark Star was getting stronger from each bit of code absorbed and also seems to retcon Dark Bowser as more of an evolution brought about through enough absorbed code. While none of this is the case in the original game, you can still argue Dark Bowser isn’t a general power boost transformation as the Dark Star intentionally chooses not to use that form against the Bros. (I’m pretty sure we mainly use the most recent versions of the games anyway so it doesn’t really matter as much what the original says). Starlow also considers the Dark Star near the beginning of the Airway to be “weak”, only being unapproachable thanks to hax rather than raw power (1:00).

So basically, I think it’s more likely now that the Mario Bros. weren’t actually fighting a half power Dark Star, but instead a half power Dark Star amped by Bowser’s genetic code. The scaling chain is still a bit wonky, but I don’t think the stimulation amp argument is necessary anymore. I think it still means that Bowser is less than 2x stronger than the Bros.

I also wanted to add that after Bowser’s Toad Town fight, he mentions that he’s still not at his A-game and is still too weak. This was originally supposed to support my new argument, but I’ve completely forgotten how it supports it lol. Still gonna mention it in case it’s important.
 
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Ghengiroo115 said:
So I was gonna go on a tirade about how Bowser’s dark power enemies are narratively much stronger than Mario & Luigi’s yet he himself never beats them in both their Toad Town fight and credits fight, which would probably mean that Bowser’s stimulation amps don’t instantly dissipate and last a bit longer. However when collecting the scans needed to show that, I realised I missed a detail that makes the scaling chain a bit more logical.

For the Dark Star fight, it had already absorbed some of Bowser’s genetic code and grows in size when the battle begins, which may suggest that copying Bowser’s genetic code makes it generally stronger. In the remake Dark Bowser is only formed after the fight when the Dark Star explodes and begins sucking in more of Bowser’s genetic code, with him also proclaiming he has “not enough [power]”, which basically confirms that the Dark Star was getting stronger from each bit of code absorbed and also seems to retcon Dark Bowser as more of an evolution brought about through enough absorbed code. While none of this is the case in the original game, you can still argue Dark Bowser isn’t a general power boost transformation as the Dark Star intentionally chooses not to use that form against the Bros. (I’m pretty sure we mainly use the most recent versions of the games anyway so it doesn’t really matter as much what the original says). Starlow also considers the Dark Star near the beginning of the Airway to be “weak”, only being unapproachable thanks to hax rather than raw power (1:00).

So basically, I think it’s more likely now that the Mario Bros. weren’t actually fighting a half power Dark Star, but instead a half power Dark Star amped by Bowser’s genetic code. The scaling chain is still a bit wonky, but I don’t think the stimulation amp argument is necessary anymore. I think it still means that Bowser is less than 2x stronger than the Bros.

I also wanted to add that after Bowser’s Toad Town fight, he mentions that he’s still not at his A-game and is still too weak. This was originally supposed to support my new argument, but I’ve completely forgotten how it supports it lol. Still gonna mention it in case it’s important.
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Interesting, very much something that could be discussed more for scaling and trying to set a concrete, even if still somewhat vauge, gap between the heavywieghts and the rest of the cast.

ZespeonGalaxy said:
Fellas, what do we think of mario cast getting mid godly regen with 1ups?
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basedspongebob-based.gif
 
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