Super Dimentio Downgrade

[Cropfist]

Super Dimentio is currently rated as 2-B because he was going to destroy all of the worlds and dimensions in the verse, however I have found no evidence that there are over 1000 worlds in Paper Mario. Unless there's evidence to justify his current ratings then Super Dimentio, the Chaos Heart, the Pure Hearts and Paper Mario with the Pure Hearts should be downgraded to at least 2-C/multi-universe level.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

If there's stated to be "all", then we take that to mean 2-B. Chara and Zeus (Saint Seiya) are good examples.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Chara was rated for "Countless" timelines. I guess Zeus too?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Actually, it was Cronus from Saint Seiya. Zeus scales. But, basically, yeah.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Okay, let's try that again.

Hmm. IDK. So should we do this like what we did with Cronus and i think maybe Chara did with theirs?

 

[Antvasima]

I am uncertain. It might be best to highlight this for further information.

 

[Kevyn_S._de_Andrade]

I do not agree, you do not have evidence of the number of lines is smaller. If we use your logic, various characters will be nerf by the fact that most do not mention the number of verses that destroys or so no longer Multiversal. Super Dimentio should continue as 2-B.

 

[Kevyn_S._de_Andrade]

Other universes have been shown in the cartoon, which included the real world (our world). This also shows that it is part of our multiverse, technically that apply to us should apply to them as well. We also have alternative Universes in Super Mario Galaxy, where Luigi is with himself, and Bowser have their own dimension in the game. We see it also in the series Super Mario Kun. Several others worlds in Super Paper Mario. Other alternative dimension in Mario & Luigi: Dream Team. The dimensions of Smithy and Culex Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, like Culex himself claims to have come from another dimension. Yoshi series of games, which according to Takashi Tezuka pass in alternative universes to the Mario series . Super Mario Bros. 2 show pros plans to Subco to Subspace etc. etc. etc.

We did not get to explore all you have in Marioverse, the only things for which we were required to finish the game, as Paper Mario only passed through the worlds where they had the Pure Hearts in Super Paper Mario, and walked not for any other. But it does not mean that they are only these, so much so that were shown other worlds over other games.

Still little explored Mario Verse but even exploring some have seen it all. I do not think coherent want to demote Super Dimentio to 2-C

Another thing I believe we can turn the verses of The Legend of Zelda , Metroid (verse) and Star Fox to Marioverse, since they have already bee connected . In fact most of the main Nintendo games were linked, and I think we can take all Nintendo as a verse only.

 

[Fllflourine]

Doesn't Marioverse contain what basically amounts to a countless number of universes? My memories a bit fuzzy after not playing any Mario game for a while, though.

 

[Verivici]

Chara was rated for "Countless" timelines. I guess Zeus too?

The words "Countless timelines" was never used in Undertale.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

The change is unnecessary. While a specfied number of dimensions and worlds was never revealed, it does not automatically make it below the 1000 mark unless something stated otherwise. How many worlds Super Dimentio is going to destroy is irrelevant because he's going to destroy all of them and all existence. Basically, that's everything that exists, including dimensions that exists between dimensions such as Flipside and the afterlife such as Underwhere and Overthere (Basically, Hell and Heaven). Even worlds that aren't explored in the game and yet to be discovered in the series.

The verse of Mario is constantly expanding. In Luigi's Mansionark Moon, there turns out that a world of ghost exists called the Paranormal dimension and Mario and Luigi: Dream Team, the gimmick is travelling btw the Real World and Dream World, and mutiple of them exists even outside the game such as SMB2's Subco and Mario Party 5's Dream Depot. This goes even further when you take in the population of the Mushroom Kingdom since the Dream Depot houses dreams of the MK inhabitants, which is clearly over 1000 populants. And then, you have worlds from sub-series such as the Shake dimension from Wario Land: Shake it!, the dimension where the player fought Behemoth and Behemoth King in Mario Sport Mix and Vanda(Unnamed in Japan), a universe where Culex originated from in SMRPG. That being said, the rating stays. Plus, I'm certian their are plnety of characters rated 2-B for similar situation, making it a double standard for Super Dimentio downgraded. It going to take more than the lack of total number of universes to downgrade a constantly expanding verse.

@ Kevyn Souzan

Cameos and guest appearances shouldn't be used to connect seperate franchises as a single verse. After all, Mario starred with Sonic several times in the Olympic games. That doesn't mean, they are from the same verse. With that being said, all Nintendo characters are within the verse they originated from and not from the camoes or easter eggs they make unless the settings of two franchises/characters/etc is clearly within the same verse eg. The Donkey Kong and SMB franchise.

 

[Promestein]

I'm pretty sure that, if we don't know the exact amount of universes, we're supposed to go with 2-C.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

^That's what Antvasima said to someone wall. If we don't know the exact number, we go with "2-C" or "at least 2-C" instead.

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

Have you ever thought Dimentio destroyed everyone in the Marioverse including galaxy, Wario Land, Mushroom Kingdom, etc. Instead of just paper mario world

 

[Promestein]

Pretty sure that's still not thousands.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I actually heard that all and countless were 2-B, hence my previous statement.

 

[Promestein]

Countless universes are 2-B, but I'm pretty sure we don't have an exact number of how many universes are involved here.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

Countless universes are 2-B, but I'm pretty sure we don't have an exact number of how many universes are involved here.

I thought I covered that in my post with MP5's Dream Depot.

 

[Ryukama]

"All" is extremely vague and should not in the slighest equate to a number higher than has been explicitly shown, demonstrated or stated. And I do not think "countless" was used to describe Mario. I think an "At least 2-C" would suffice.

 

[Promestein]

Is every person's dream a distinct universe of equal infinite size?

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

Likely so, considering the booklet describing Future Dream confirmed it.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

I have to go to a wedding. Be right back everyone.

 

[Kevyn_S._de_Andrade]

Yes, I expected it, but does not change much of what I said. Still, if we follow this logic by several characters will be nerf, in great majority are not mentioned the number of Universes destroyed but that does not stop them from being Multiverses.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I'm starting to feel that At least 2-C is better for Dimentio. Like Ryu said above, "All" seems too vague to use in the same way as Countless is. If anything, i'm sticking to that for now....

 

[Promestein]

Yes, I expected it, but does not change much of what I said. Still, if we follow this logic by several characters will be nerf, in great majority are not mentioned the number of Universes destroyed but that does not stop them from being Multiverses.

As it should be.

We assume the lower ranks if there is nothing explicitly stating a number.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if we have a completely unspecified size, then "At least 2-C. Likely higher" might be better (although we would have to downgrade any connected characters and items as well), but if everybody's dream was specified as a universe, then 2-B is more appropriate.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Prom and Ant have a point there, yea. On that if there's no specified size, then it becomes "At least 2-C" or what Antvasima said.

Not exactly sure about the "if everybody's dreams are universes" thing, however...

 

[Ryukama]

I'm not very familiar with the game. But the Mario Wiki pages on those locations don't seem to imply each dream being a seperate universe. Just that the Dream Depot is a location in space where everyone's dreams contain. And that the Space Area (which is also said to be made up of everyone's dreams of the future) refers to "looking at the universe."

As much as I hate to say it that doesn't really seem like strong enough proof for the dream of every mushroom inhabitant being a separate space-time. Hence I believe it should still be "At least 2-C"

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Let's wait for Dino Ranger Black. He is the Mario expert.

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

Hello, everyone. Thank you for the wait. I'm currently tired from the wedding ocassion, so please bare my mistakes. Grammer and all. Now the major issue people are currently having is the size of the dreams and wether it's comprised from either a single dream or or a combination of them. I'll provide the simple answer that there are indeed universe-sized dreams in the Mario series and each dream world is comprised of a single one.

Here, in pg.28 of MP5, Future Dream is a dream focused on the entire universe. When Misstar requested the player to save it she referred it to a single dream and even stated that it was an entire universe after saving it in 3:25. Futhermore, Eldstar mentions that they actually become real at 1:07. And thanks to games such as Mario and Luigi: Dream Team and SMB2, we know that mutiple of them exists.

The only problem which may keep people from acknowledging this is that they will, more so, refer to them as either an alternate dimension eg Subspace or worlds as in the aforementioned Dream Team. However, if people are still in doubt in this, it's better to have a comprise at hand. A 2-C , possibly 2-B rating should suffice.

I'm gonna hit the sack. I'll continue later.....

 

[Ryukama]

@Dino Thanks for the response. If one dream can become a full fledged universe as it seems you've shown, 2-B seems pretty reasonable in my opinion. Good night.

 

[Ryukama]

@Everyone How would this sound?

Attack Potency: Multiverse level (If not for Mario defeating him, would have destroyed the totality of all worlds, dimensions, timelines, possiblities and existence in the Marioverse. Which includes things like the Dream Depot, where a dream of someone's gets turned into an entire universe)

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe something like this:

Attack Potency: Multiverse level (If Dimentio had not been defeated by Mario, he would have destroyed the totality of all worlds, timelines and possibilities in the Marioverse. Which includes things like the Dream Depot, where the dreams of the citizens are turned into entire universes)

 

[Ryukama]

@Ant that sounds good as well.

Also I am very sorry to bother you. But in this thread there was a topic pertaining to the speed of Dimentio (he was going to destroy every single timeline, exist and move within the utterly timeless void of nonexistence, then create his own space-times) A few people were wondering whether this should be Infinite, Immeasurable or something else pertaining to speed. If you do not mind doing so could you please check it out and tell me what you think.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, but DarkLK is much better at evaluating such matters than I am.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Seems reasonable enough. So Dimentio keeps his 2-B rank but now has an actual description as to why he has the rating.

Do we keep the linked thing he has on there or do we take it out?

 

[Ryukama]

@Antvasima Thank you very much. Should I ask DarkLK as well then?

EDIT: Nevermind I see you have done so already. Thanks again.

@Cross I think we should keep the linked thing. But then make Ant's suggested description as the link to that clip instead.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

@Ryu: Ant's already done that and i suppose that works for it, then.

 

[Antvasima]

I have asked DarkLK about it.

 

[Ryukama]

Since it seems like the downgrade in question pertaining to this thread has been turned down and there's a different issue regarding the character we are now looking into. I believe it is appropriate to close this now.

EDIT: I have gotten Alakabamm to do so @Ant.