Supe vs Martial Artist: Homelander vs Kuroki Gensai (0-5-0)

[C2_of_Omegon]

Kuroki hears about various rumors about American 'Heroes' and decides to pit his strength against the 'strongest' Supe.

Homelander:

Kuroki Gensai: 5 (MintyBoi1, azontr, LegendariumOfLies, C2 of Omegon, The_man_with_the_Midas_touch)

C2, WTH, man?!:

Speed Equalized. NOTE: Unless Speed Unequal would make for a better match.

SBA otherwise.

 

[TegamiBachi25]

Whats their AP? If I remember correctly, Homie scales upward from 289 tons

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Whats their AP? If I remember correctly, Homie scales upward from 289 tons

Homelander > 289 tons

IIRC Kuroki >= 498 Tons

 

[MintyBoi1]

So Gensai is stronger and far more skilled. He should be able to easily predict all of Homelander’s moves and pierce him with the Devil Lance. The only problems are heat vision and flight. The LS difference also makes things dangerous for Gensai. But prediction, afterimages, and information analysis will make it exceedingly hard for Homelander to land a killing blow. Unless he just camps out Gensai with flight which I don’t think he would if his ego’s being shattered, I’m voting Gensai.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

One thing to note: it's possible that some of the damage of Kuroki's may be offset by how hard HL's bodily tissues are. Kuroki's effectiveness when striking is partly due to hitting in ways that strike directly at the organs. Homelander is somewhat resistant to this kind of damage. It won't negate much but it might take off a bit of the edge.

TBH, it's kind of grey area given everything in play, though and I wouldn't be shocked if it doesn't amount to much in the long run...

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Thats a stomp. The only way to make this fair is by not using speed equal, otherwise Kuroki just destroys

 

[azontr]

The only scenario in which Homelander does anything of value is if he flies off and shoots lasers from afar for the rest of forever, but even that won't reach Kuroki because it's literally just a straight line that comes out of his eyes, Kuroki will effortlessly dodge it.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Thats a stomp. The only way to make this fair is by not using speed equal, otherwise Kuroki just destroys

Speed unequal. Let's see where this goes. Homelander's around 4x faster.

 

[AThe1412]

One thing to note: it's possible that some of the damage of Kuroki's may be offset by how hard HL's bodily tissues are. Kuroki's effectiveness when striking is partly due to hitting in ways that strike directly at the organs. Homelander is somewhat resistant to this kind of damage. It won't negate much but it might take off a bit of the edge.

TBH, it's kind of grey area given everything in play, though and I wouldn't be shocked if it doesn't amount to much in the long run...

Devil Lance also wouldn't be as effective as it should be due to his resistance to piercing damage and the fact that his insides are just as durable as his outsides.

Thats a stomp. The only way to make this fair is by not using speed equal, otherwise Kuroki just destroys

Speed unequal. Let's see where this goes.

Homie blitz the hell out of Kuroki with unequal speed and oneshots with heat vision.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Homie blitz the hell out of Kuroki with unequal speed and oneshots with heat vision.

Man, it's getting late, I completely forgot the heat vision for a sec. Speed equalized.

 

[azontr]

Speed Unequal is winnable if Homelander doesn't immediately begin with Heat Vision. At close-range, Kuroki can exploit his arrogance and unwillingness to dodge to one-shot with a vital strike with Devil Lance. Kuroki upscales a lot from his value, and he's already the stronger fighter, so he shouldn't have much issue piercing Homelander's flesh with his spear hand.

 

[AThe1412]

Speed Unequal is winnable if Homelander doesn't immediately begin with Heat Vision. At close-range, Kuroki can exploit his arrogance and unwillingness to dodge to one-shot with a vital strike with Devil Lance. Kuroki upscales a lot from his value, and he's already the stronger fighter, so he shouldn't have much issue piercing Homelander's flesh with his spear hand.

Devil Lance also wouldn't be as effective as it should be due to his resistance to piercing damage and the fact that his insides are just as durable as his outsides.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

"Devil Lance wouldn't be effective" Kuroki literally has 2x Homelander's AP, even a normal punch would be effective

 

[azontr]

Devil Lance is very good piercing. I'm fairly sure that even those with a resistance to piercing still got severely damaged by Devil Lance. Ohma has a bunch of techniques to increase resistance to piercing and Devil Lance still easily pierces him.

Not to mention, I'm fairly certain most of the piercing weapons Homelander ever encounters are several tiers weaker than his base durability. His "piercing resistance" is probably just him being 8-A against normal humans.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

"Devil Lance wouldn't be effective" Kuroki literally has 2x Homelander's AP, even a normal punch would be effective

A 2x advantage isn't massive and even then it's more like 1.7x. Both Homelander and Kuroki upscale form their values.

 

[azontr]

Either way, Kuroki will win. Equal speed, he wins easily. Unequal speed, he has to exploit Homelander's arrogance to strike a vital/pressure point to end the fight quickly. At the end of the day he wins.

 

[AThe1412]

Devil Lance is very good piercing. I'm fairly sure that even those with a resistance to piercing still got severely damaged by Devil Lance. Ohma has a bunch of techniques to increase resistance to piercing and Devil Lance still easily pierces him.

Fair enough.

Not to mention, I'm fairly certain most of the piercing weapons Homelander ever encounters are several tiers weaker than his base durability. His "piercing resistance" is probably just him being 8-A against normal humans.

Kimiko who is 8-C at max can be harmed by knives, saws, and normal bullets because she has no piercing resistance. Starlight who is also 8-C at max, on the other hand, is bulletproof because she has piercing resistance. It's a real thing.

 

[AThe1412]

Either way, Kuroki will win. Equal speed, he wins easily. Unequal speed, he has to exploit Homelander's arrogance to strike a vital/pressure point to end the fight quickly. At the end of the day he wins.

I doubt Homelander will act arrogant when he feels Kuroki's aura.

 

[azontr]

I doubt Homelander will act arrogant when he feels Kuroki's aura.

Him feeling Kuroki's aura would just overwhelm him into being unable to move so Kuroki can hit him easier, lol.

 

[AThe1412]

Him feeling Kuroki's aura would just overwhelm him into being unable to move so Kuroki can hit him easier, lol.

How strong is the aura anyway? Is it so strong that he can't even just stare at him and heat vision?

 

[azontr]

How strong is the aura anyway? Is it so strong that he can't even just stare at him and heat vision?

Kuroki would easily dodge heat vision because Homelander's eyes glow before the beams fire, so he'd just predict it and step to the side before it launches.

 

[AThe1412]

Kuroki would easily dodge heat vision because Homelander's eyes glow before the beams fire, so he'd just predict it and step to the side before it launches.

Sometimes it has a short buildup, sometimes it doesn't. The beam and his eyes also move 63.37 times faster than Kuroki (I think? None of Kengan's speed calculations seem to be approved and the entire verse is Subsonic despite there being multiple calculations putting them well above that on the verse page).

 

[azontr]

It would more likely than not have a short buildup if Homelander is disheveled and overwhelmed by Kuroki's aura.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Kuroki has superior AP, Skill, and Intelligence. I am pretty sure he has fought People faster than him before and won. If Homelander does get close enough to use LS, Kuroki has far superior CQC and Striking Strength.
Voting Kuroki. Homelander is a Base Spiderman Victim.

 

[AThe1412]

It would more likely than not have a short buildup if Homelander is disheveled and overwhelmed by Kuroki's aura.

Lol, this is basically the equivalent of you trying to kill a snail by aiming a gun at it and shooting but the snail somehow dodges it just because it knows you're aiming at it.

Kuroki has superior AP, Skill, and Intelligence. I am pretty sure he has fought People faster than him before and won. If Homelander does get close enough to use LS, Kuroki has far superior CQC and Striking Strength.
Voting Kuroki. Homelander is a Base Spiderman Victim.

Faster but still within the same speed tier as him and he needed foresight to do it. Homie is dozens of times above that.

 

[azontr]

Lol, this is basically the equivalent of you trying to kill a snail by aiming a gun at it and shooting but the snail somehow dodges it just because it knows you're aiming at it.

That's basically how Foresight works, lol.

 

[AThe1412]

That's basically how Foresight works, lol.

Actually, the gun comparison isn't very accurate. It's more like a water hose.

 

[azontr]

Erm, what the sigma

 

[AThe1412]

Erm, what the sigma

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Faster but still within the same speed tier as him and he needed foresight to do it. Homie is dozens of times above that.

Analytical Prediction and Information Analysis should allow him to predict Homie's moves. He doesn't have the most complex fighting style.
Also, does Homie have any response to Kuroki's aura? Weird question I know, but Homie doesn't seem to have any resistance to it?

 

[AThe1412]

Analytical Prediction and Information Analysis should allow him to predict Homie's moves. He doesn't have the most complex fighting style.
Also, does Homie have any response to Kuroki's aura? Weird question I know, but Homie doesn't seem to have any resistance to it?

That's why I have been asking what the aura does. If it simply scares opponents then that will prompt Homie to get serious and stay the hell away from Kuroki while spamming heat vision.

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

It's effectively just a strength indicator. Aura in Kengan is mostly just used by fighters to sense how dangerous the other character is. Would probably make him panic or scared, but wouldn't outright stop him from fighting.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Ok, I'm gonna weigh in here, now that I'm home.

As for AP >498 tons vs. >289 tons. So, that's a 1.7x difference, not even 2x. As such, Kuroki enjoys a slight advantage but it's not insurmountable nor is it the be-all, end-all. Kuroki can hurt Homelander but Homelander could hurt Kuroki back if given the chance. Heat vision, if allowed to get a good hit, would either kill outright or disable depending on what Homelander hit. In fact, that makes the opening of this fight the most dangerous for Kuroki. Let me explain.

The fight starts at a distance of a couple tens of meters away, the range of Homelander's Heat Vision. Now, Kuroki's aura doesn't have any Fear Manip or debilitating abilities attached to it but would send a signal to Homelander that he's dealing with...something else here. What happens next depends how Homelander responds. If Homelander takes the feeling Kuroki gives off seriously and goes for Heat Vision...well, Kuroki can certainly dodge it between reaction time, skill and Foresight but I don't think it's as easy as some make it out to be. Sure Heat Vision goes in straight in line...until Homelander turns his head and starts sweeping it around. Now, Kuroki has Foresight but I see that as more effective as he gets used to Homelandeer. The first time Homelander pulls out the Heat Vision, I think that'd be very shocking for Kuroki. Homelander's powers do not exist in any way, shape or form. I think Kuroki's cool head and skill level would allow him to dodge effectively after seeing it but that first time is going to be when he's at the most likely to be hit. Plus, I don't recall if we've ever seen Foresight used to deal with long range attacks or projectiles, so it's effectiveness helping with deal with the Heat Vision is at least a little suspect the first time it's used.

Now, let's say Homelander decides to fly up, stay at a distance and Heat Vision instead. If Homleander leans on his flight, Kuroki can't really doing anything but dodge and if Homelander isn't able to get him with the opening salvo of Heat Vision. At that point they're at an impasse. This scenario is unlikely though given Homelander's own arrogance.

More than likely, Homelander goes in HTH and things get a tad more interesting once you think about it. Kuroki will floor Homelander in terms of skill but there's a few stumbling blocks. The effectiveness of Kuroki's strikes are due to the fact that he typically strikes when his opponent cannot properly block or defend, thus not allowing them to mitigate damage. In addition, his strikes tend to bypass the peritoneum to get at your organ, which in Kengan, you can't train. Homelander's physiology is different has ALL of his tissues are as durable as his skin. Hence, Kuroki's blows aren't going to have the same kind of impact on Homelander due to this. They will still hurt but it won't have him reeling like say Kanoh or Ohma because his strikes just won't have the same kind of effect.

In regards to the Devil Lance, I think it will still pierce but due to Homelander's tough skin, muscles and and tissues, it won't go as deep as it normally should. Damaging but reduced.

Furthermore, if Kuroki attempts any type of grappling which he does make use of in his fights (he's pulled Kanoh downward for a knee and grasped Ohma's head for a headbutt), he's in for a nasty surprise. Assuming that Kuroki scales to Ohma's 13 tons (Both are class 25), Homelander is 13x stronger than Kuroki. If he grapples and Homelander's able to grab him, there's not much Kuroki can do depending on HOW he's been grabbed. If Homelander's able to catch both of Kuroki's arms...it just might be game over as he'll lack any way to actually get Homelander off.

Going further, if Homelander is able to drag Kuroki into the sky and let him go or toss him up, he can just Heat Vision him in the air.

Essentially, this match for me boils down to if Kuroki can beat Homelander down versus Homelander's much more situational wincons...and on that basis and I think Kuroki will win the majority of the time. Homelander's biggest advantages are his powers and how out of left field they are compared to the Kenganverse but once Kuroki knows about them, he'll just account for them and that's it. But there are less likely scenarios where Homelander's able to press those key advantages and actually take it.

But that's just how I see it.

 

[azontr]

Plus, I don't recall if we've ever seen Foresight used to deal with long range attacks or projectiles, so it's effectiveness helping with deal with the Heat Vision is at least a little suspect the first time it's used.

He doesn't need to specifically counter the projectile, rather he just needs to know where and when the shooter is aiming/firing. He uses Foresight to block a bullet the chronologically "first" time we see him utilize it. Homelander turning his head to change the laser direction is only really an issue if speed is unequal.

 

[AThe1412]

He doesn't need to specifically counter the projectile, rather he just needs to know where and when the shooter is aiming/firing. He uses Foresight to block a bullet the chronologically "first" time we see him utilize it. Homelander turning his head to change the laser direction is only really an issue if speed is unequal.

He doesn't need to turn his head though. It comes from his eyes so he just gotta glance around a bit while using it unless the opponent moves to the sides or out of his FOV.

 

[azontr]

He doesn't need to turn his head though. It comes from his eyes so he just gotta glance around a bit while using it unless the opponent moves to the sides or out of his FOV.

Kuroki would just analyze his gaze. He can see, at minimum, 100 steps ahead, scaling above Kaneda's noob-level Foresight.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Kuroki would just analyze his gaze. He can see, at minimum, 100 steps ahead, scaling above Kaneda's noob-level Foresight.

But he's not going to see where Homelander's gaze is exactly once the beams get going. His eyes are going to be blazing red, not much detail see. Note, I'm not saying Kuroki can't dodge, I'm saying that it won't be easy as you're making it out to be.

 

[AThe1412]

Kuroki would just analyze his gaze. He can see, at minimum, 100 steps ahead, scaling above Kaneda's noob-level Foresight.

Minor nitpick. The profile says 10.

 

[azontr]

But he's not going to see where Homelander's gaze is exactly once the beams get going. His eyes are going to be blazing red, not much detail see. Note, I'm not saying Kuroki can't dodge, I'm saying that it won't be easy as you're making it out to be.

He doesn't need to constantly have eyes locked on Homelander's eyes for his Foresight to take effect. He just needs to see his gaze for a few seconds, maybe minutes, to analyze it, and then he'll be able to predict where he's going to aim his lasers. The entire point of Foresight on Kuroki's level is that they stop needing to even see the opponent to counter. It's probably gonna be that easy.

 

[azontr]

Minor nitpick. The profile says 10.

Kaneda's profile is bad. It's 100.