sun wukong semi omnipresence?

[FuaadMohamoud]

At the end of Journey to the West Sun Wukong attains Buddhahood. To become a Buddha they are many steps and tribulations but i'll cut it short. On the path to becoming a Buddha you attain a rainbow body.... The rainbow body phenomenon is a third person perspective of someone else attaining complete knowledge. After this process it is said in Tibetan scriptures that one will have the ability to exist and abide wherever and whenever as pointed by one's compassion. This means that a person who is already a Buddha has also the ability to exist simultaneously at any place or time. while they are many tiers of Buddha the lowest form still has the basic rainbow body.

 

[DontTalk]

The rainbow body phenomenon is a third person perspective of someone else attaining complete knowledge. After this process it is said in tiebetan scriptures that one will have the ability to exist and abide wherever and whenever as pointed by one's compassion. This means that a person who is aready a buddha has also the abilltiy to exist simultaniously at any place or time. while they are many tiers of Buddha the lowest form still has the basic rainbow body.

Would sound like omnipresence (at least if the user wants to). Is that text a quote from Journey to the west though? That is important, as we should probably just go as far with interpretation as the content of the book directly tells us. It would be a bad idea to judge it after the religious concepts and tales its based on (similar to how its bad to judge characters based on the christian god after the christian believes for example).

 

[Aurasuke]

^ It's hard most likely to find one, he becomes a Buddha after the end of the series. Tecnically he becomes a Fo, a master of Buddhas, but anyway. We could scale the one who imprisoned him though, which would have the name of Ru Lai Fo I believe. In the original stories he apparently didn't have any form, or could take on any form and may have existed either everywhere or in a realm that was beyond "Heaven".

This seems like an okay translation

http://www.chine-informations.com/fichiers/jourwest.pdf

Found this, not sure if it amounts to anything though, perhaps that distance doesn't really matter to a Buddha. Not sure what do you people think?

"I'll have a wager with you then," said the Buddha. "If you're clever enough to get out of my right hand with a single somersault, you will be the winner, and there will be no more need for weapons or fighting: I shall invite the Jade Emperor to come and live in the West and abdicate the Heavenly Palace to you. But if you can't get out of the palm of my hand you will have to go down to the world below as a devil and train yourself for several more kalpas before coming to argue about it again." When he heard this offer the Great Sage smiled to himself and thought, "This Buddha is a complete idiot. I can cover thirtysix thousand miles with a somersault, so how could I fail to jump out of the palm of his hand, which is less than a foot across?" With this in his mind he asked eagerly, "Do you guarantee that yourself?"

"Yes, yes," the Buddha replied, and he stretched out his right hand, which seemed to be about the size of a lotus leaf. Putting away his AsYouWill cudgel, the Great Sage summoned up all his divine powers, jumped into the palm of the Buddha's hand, and said, "I'm off." Watch him as he goes like a streak of light and disappears completely. The Buddha, who was watching him with his wise eyes, saw the Monkey King whirling forward like a windmill and not stopping until he saw five fleshpink pillars topped by dark vapours. "This is the end of the road," he said, "so now I'll go back. The Buddha will be witness, and the Hall of Miraculous Mist will be mine." Then he thought again, "Wait a moment. I'll leave my mark here to prove my case when I talk to the Buddha." He pulled out a hair, breathed on it with his magic breath, and shouted "Change." It turned into a writing brush dipped in ink, and with it he wrote THE GREAT SAGE EQUALING HEAVEN WAS HERE in big letters on the middle pillar. When that was done he put the hair back on, and, not standing on his dignity, made a pool of monkey piss at the foot of the pillar. Then he turned his somersault round and went back to where he had started from. "I went, and now I'm back. Tell the Jade Emperor to hand the Heavenly Palace over to me," he said, standing in the Buddha's palm. "I've got you, you pissspirit of a monkey," roared the Buddha at him. "You never left the palm of my hand." "You're wrong there," the Great Sage replied. "I went to the farthest point of Heaven, where I saw five fleshpink pillars topped by dark vapours. I left my mark there: do you dare come and see it with me?" "There's no need to go. Just look down." The Great Sage looked down with his fire eyes with golden pupils to see the words "The Great Sage Equaling Heaven Was Here" written on the middle finger of the Buddha's right hand. The stink of monkeypiss rose from the fold at the bottom of the finger. "What a thing to happen," exclaimed the Great Sage in astonishment. "I wrote this on one of the pillars supporting the sky, so how can it be on his finger now? He must have used divination to know what I was going to do. I don't believe it. I refuse to believe it! I'll go there and come back again." The dear Great Sage hurriedly braced himself to jump, but the Buddha turned his hand over and pushed the Monkey King out through the Western Gate of Heaven. He turned his five fingers into a mountain chain belonging to the elements Metal, Wood, Water, Fire, and Earth, renamed them the Five Elements Mountain, and gently held him down. All the thunder gods and the disciples Ananda and Kasyapa put their hands together to praise the Buddha: "Wonderful, wonderful,

 

[FuaadMohamoud]

The story blends the Buddists scriptures with the stories verse. It Will not be wise to forget the foundation of characters met in the books story while they refer to stuff that happened in the religion. but also kinda confusing whem characters refer to stuff that happen not in the story but in the religion. The story is interpreted as something that could of happend in this given mythology

 

[FuaadMohamoud]

^ It's hard most likely to find one, he becomes a Buddha after the end of the series. Tecnically he becomes a Fo, a master of Buddhas, but anyway. We could scale the one who imprisoned him though, which would have the name of Ru Lai Fo I believe. In the original stories he apparently didn't have any form, or could take on any form and may have existed either everywhere or in a realm that was beyond "Heaven".
This seems like an okay translation

http://www.chine-informations.com/fichiers/jourwest.pdf

Found this, not sure if it amounts to anything though, perhaps that distance doesn't really matter to a Buddha. Not sure what do you people think?

"I'll have a wager with you then," said the Buddha. "If you're clever enough to get out of my right hand with a single somersault, you will be the winner, and there will be no more need for weapons or fighting: I shall invite the Jade Emperor to come and live in the West and abdicate the Heavenly Palace to you...

seems like a great translation

 

[DontTalk]

The story blends the Buddists scriptures with the stories verse. It Will not be wise to forget the foundation of characters met in the books story while they refer to stuff that happened in the religion. but also kinda confusing whem characters refer to stuff that happen not in the story but in the religion. The story is interpreted as something that could of happend in this given mythology

The thing is we technically have a rule on this side which prohibits content involving modern religions. That is, because it is highly controversial, depends on interpretation and the active practioners can quite legitimately disagree with them being listed on a page for ranking fictional characters. Additionally we also judge mainy other forms of deities appearing in related materials just after what they showed there. For example disneys interpretation of Zeus is also supposed to be actually zeus, but feats wise only what disney actually showed are his feats.

Because of all that I feel like there isn't a reason to make an exception here. Quiet on the contrary, I believe its best to practice this standard here as well and only go with their powers and abilities as far as the story in question demostrated them.

 

[DontTalk]

@Aurasuke: Hard to tell. I guess one could interpret it like omnipresence, but I would like further opinions on interpreting that particular scene like that.

 

[FuaadMohamoud]

The story blends the Buddists scriptures with the stories verse. It Will not be wise to forget the foundation of characters met in the books story while they refer to stuff that happened in the religion. but also kinda confusing whem characters refer to stuff that happen not in the story but in the religion. The story is interpreted as something that could of happend in this given mythology

The thing is we technically have a rule on this side which prohibits content involving modern religions. That is, because it is highly controversial, depends on interpretation and the active practioners can quite legitimately disagree with them being listed on a page for ranking fictional characters. Additionally we also judge mainy other forms of deities appearing in related materials just after what they showed there. For example disneys interpretation of Zeus is also supposed to be actually zeus, but feats wise only what disney actually showed are his feats.
Because of all that I feel like there isn't a reason to make an exception here. Quiet on the contrary, I believe its best to practice this standard here as well and only go with their powers and abilities as far as the story in question demostrated them.

seems reasonable so we just go by sun wukong becoming a buddha

 

[Aurasuke]

Very well, perhaps some context would help. Sun had just finished off the highest ranking gods of heaven who may be perhaps Galaxy level if we go by this translation (I think in the original texts Heaven was left a bit more ambigious, but since constellations were involved, one could interpret it as beyond a normal sky).

The Buddha here aren't actually a part of heaven, it can be interpreted they came from a place beyond heaven, or they exist everywhere depending on how you look at it. They were called in by the Gods to intervene and stop Sun's rampaging.

Sun wishes to dethrone the Emperor of Heaven and Claim the Throne for himself. He makes a bet with a Buddha in that should he win, he will become the Emperor of heaven. The Buddha agrees and he losses the bet to escape his hand despite it only being a foot long or a measurable length despite being able to travel across great distances easily.

I don't think teleportation is the actual answer because what he thought were the Pillars of Heaven were nothing more than the Budddha's fingers.

It could be really high end magic, but to be honest, that's probably more unlikely than that person being omnipresent. I can't think of any kind of magic that would be able to Hold Sun in one place without him noticing that he wasn't actually moving.

 

[FuaadMohamoud]

the meaning of being a buddha is

1. thus gone, thus come (transcendent )
2. worthy one (perfected one )
3. perfectly self-enlightened
4. perfected in knowledge and conduct
5. well gone
6. knower of the world
7. unsurpassed
8. leader of persons to be tamed
9. teacher of the gods and humans
10. the Blessed One or fortunate one

 

[Jose.loayza.1829]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ar%C5%ABpajh%C4%81na