• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Sub-Atomization Proof

1,184
140
The purpose of this thread is to prove that Shinsoo Manipulation = Matter Manipulation, and how such all users of Shinoo are able to destroy atoms on a sub-atomic level if not higher.

Reasons

  • First of all both matter and Shinsoo are regarded as "the basis of all energy", and are both the fundamental building blocks of life.
  • In addition both matter and Shinsoo can undergo a change in states ― just like how almost all substances can be changed from Solid, Liquid and Gaseous states, Shinsoo can also change its properties. In lower concentrations, its density makes the substance act like a gas, but in higher concentrations, it behaves like a liquid.
  • In addition Shinsoo replaces air and carries out all the processes that air would, and it goes without saying that air is a mixture of molecules.
Now moving on to the reason why I believe all users of shinsoo are able to manipulate Matter and destroy it.

Destruction of matter is classified as Matter Manipulation here, and we already know that Shinsoo users are able to atomically change the densities and surface area of their Shinsoo. So why do I ardently believe that basically all Shinsoo users can destroy atoms?

Well it's actually very simple here. You see there is something called Reverse-Flow Control. To use reverse-flow control, you need to be able to read the flow of Shinsoo more accurately than you need to for flow control. You instead break, block and shatter the flow and make it your own. To repeat, you need to BREAK, BLOCK AND SHATTER the Shinsoo flow. If we have already established that Shinsoo = Matter, then using Reverse-Flow would require you to essentially break and shatter atoms. Reverse-Flow control is a ability that while, not demonstrated by all people in the verse is a simple ability to use and for that reason we ourselves give that ability to many characters in the verse.

Now onto the proof for Sub-Atomic destruction, as opposed to Atomic. You see normal Shinsoo Flow in itself follows a London dispersion force model, explained here. Electrons randomly jump around in their orbitals, so even nonpolar molecules exhibit forces between each other as, in some brief moments, more electrons are on one side, creating a temporary dipole. This is because, like the flow of electrons, Shinso flows are inherently unpredictable, at some moments it will flow in certain directions. One can thus manipulate Shinso efficiently by reading and using these temporary directional flows. Once one begins to control Shinso in one direction, it is difficult to change direction. So in a sense Shinsoo can be thought of as Magical Charged Particles, or Super Electrons. As such to break and shatter the flow of Shinsoo is like breaking and shattering the flow of electrons and the bonds holding them together. This essentially means that Reverse-Flow Control requires the user to sub-atomically shatter Shinsoo before using it, hence proof of Sub-Atom Destruction.

TLDR: Shinsoo is basically magical particles that follow an electron flow, and Reverse-Flow of it requires you to shatter Shinsoo beforehand. Hence Reverse-Flow of shinso is the same as Sub-Atomic destruction.

PSA: Huge credit goes to RegisNex1232 for his creation of the Shinsoo description in his blog, which I copied some info from.
 
Electrons have a natural tendency to repel each other, the only attraction they experience towards each other is extremely miniscule gravitational attraction which is naturally overpowered by their repulsion anyway.

Furthermore, subatomic destruction in the context of this wiki refers to breaking atomic nuclei apart, specifically protons and neutrons which are held together by the strong force, naturally this wouldn't apply to electrons since they don't experience strong interaction. Electrons don't even bond to each other so there's nothing to break apart in the first place.

Also, looking at the source the electron thing was merely a comment by the translator to serve as an analogy. SIU himself never mentioned any similarity to electrons and the translator only pointed their motion out as an example.

So even the Shinwonryu and Thorn have nothing to do with subatomic particles. The Macro-Quantum Matter Manipulation and High regen negation should preferably be removed.
 
The "basis of all energy" thing could mean something since that could mean shinsoo's nature is similar to that of elementary particles such as photons, but again that's too vague to say everyone who controls shinsoo controls matter at the macro-quantum level even if we interpret it that way.
 
I thought the High regen Negation was for those who kill the inhabidents of the Floor of Death rather then the Miro-quantum manipulation?
 
Yuri stopped the Regenerationn and killed a resident on two different moments while being in the same 'state', so those people should have them. We currenty have them as " Up to Likely High" and that's only "possesed Yuri', Baam/ Thorn, Hell joe, and Enryu/Thorn so it's not a common ability.
 
That doesn't make sense since the guys they killed have Low-Godly. At any rate, that got rejected on the basis of it being a spell. There haven't been any instances of them negating anything non-spell based.
 
Jobbo said:
That doesn't make sense since the guys they killed have Low-Godly. At any rate, that got rejected on the basis of it being a spell. There haven't been any instances of them negating anything non-spell based.
Then they shouldn't. As far as I remember, there were no other examples of Regenerationn negation.
 
Getting Regenerationn negation on the basis of matter manipulation doesn't even make sense anyway. By that logic almost every character on the site would have Regenerationn Negation (Up to Low-Mid) for being able to decapitate people.
 
And that's why scaling regen negation to them was rejected, because it was a spell and not their own regen, the reason they have high negation on their profiles right now is because of the previous thread where subatomic destruction was decided. Now that we've found that to be false, there's no reason for them to have it anymore.
 
Yes, the Regenerationn was part of the spell and it was broken by the ignition of the 13 months weapons and the Thorn

I think if we want to really settle this we'll need to ask others for their opinion while going into detail about the nature of this, if only to get other opinions.
 
The Low-godly Regen Negation due to 'manipulating Miro-Quantum particales'/ killing Inhabidents of the Floor of Death was denyed yes. Not sure about Regen Negation in general, just skiming through it now and don't see anything yet, but like I said I'm skimming through it rather then paying attention so I could miss it.
 
I think it was stated that Baam negated the Regenerationn of Data Zahard with the Thorn Ignition mode, It doesn't have to do with spells and instead due to the nature of the Thorn itself and of Data Zahard's authority as the leader of the Data Floor I think, although no technical explanation was given for the nature of the Thorn. It was just his right arm just above the elbow so take that as you want.
 
...I wasn't thinking along those lines. Didn't say that in order to gain Godly level negation. There's no actual information on what his regen goes to so I doubt that.
 
The hidden floor created people from nothing. Hansung said there was no need to worry about dying since they'd just be recreated.
 
For that it seems more like revival rather then Regenerationn since it's not on their part that they are coming back to life, maybe Type 8 for them but its very specific to the Data floor and they are able to die so we'll need other people's opinion on the subject. I believe Data Zahard's Regenerationn is different to the the Data Floor residences though nothing specifc is told about his case just that he's normally able to.
 
Should we go to another thread if we want to talk about this? we're on a different topic to the intendent one, even if it's already rejected.
 
I am uncertain. Has any character actually transformed matter into other substances, so we have something other than speculation to go by?
 
RinkakuKagune said:
Antvasima said:
I am uncertain. Has any character actually transformed matter into other substances, so we have something other than speculation to go by?
Not really, directly, but many materials are actually made from Shinsoo.
And also they can transmute Shinsoo into substances, like, fire, lightning, ice etc.
 
Also, I think many people are misunderstanding, I am well aware that SIU is not a physicist. I too am using this as an example. However the FACT remains that Shinsoo is strikingly similar to sub-atomic particles or at least molecules. Jobbo's statement that "Electrons have a natural tendency to repel each other, the only attraction they experience towards each other is extremely miniscule gravitational attraction which is naturally overpowered by their repulsion anyway", completely disregards this and assumes I am stating that Electron's and Shinsoo are exactly the same - I merley used that to further support the fact that Shinsoo can be thought of as sub-atomic particles such as electrons. However the fact remains that Shinsoo is a FICTIONAL substance with supernatural abilities. Nothing more, nothing less. However the fact that it shares many similarities with the behaviour and properties of atomic and sub-atomic substances cannot be disregarded.

Furthermore, in regards to Jobbo's statement about Sub-Atomic destruction needing to be destruction of the bonds between the sub-atomic particles, it is clear that Shinsoo has bonds. We can infer this because Shinsoo can appear as Liquid, Gaseous or Solid. These are all states of matter that all have bonds, regardless of the strength of these bonds. No matter what state Shinsoo takes in order to remain that way it requires a certain bond, whether these bonds are the same as the intermolecular bonds that occur in real life I don't know and I doubt it anyway. The fact is that these bonds are there otherwise Shinsoo would occur as individual particles, rather than the watery form that we see them. Jobbo might have missed this because she focused too much on the electron example that I gave, and so countered with the fact that electrons do not have bonds.

Also, I already have two other people that seem to have agreed with me on this so I'm looking for any more.
 
I think that you can probably add my suggested version of the sentence to the relevant P&A sections if you wish.
 
Enryu The Red Tower said:
I agree with the "Possibly Limited Matter Manipulation" and removed Regen Negation (Up to High), in fact we can add those changes or we should expect more people to agree?
Enryu The Red Tower, if they have "Possibly Limited Matter Manipulation" then they could have could negate up to high Regenerationn negation. This is the way Matter Manipulation works in Vs Fight unless an opponent has resistance to it or have a counter ability to it.
 
Back
Top