Jujutsu Kaisen AP/Strength/Durability Upgrade

[BrysØn]

Honestly, Seeing Sukuna, Gojo, Jogo and Dagon cap at City or Lower is getting underestimated.

Now, i would talk about JJK C.E and D.E which is used to scale characters in JJK Considerably.

Power System: Cursed Energy- Cursed energy is born from negative emotions and if you strengthen your body in which parts what you want, i will simply presume that ce enchances your attack now start going by todos explanation aka Gege Akutamis explanation.

The question is that does cursed energy equate through corresponding to any Ap/Strength in the verse even an combat through abilities?

Link to image for proving this:
1) https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...2360a2725bd201cc3a59fb3b86009abef78630881023&
2) https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...a59293e697280e488c4e390f5f8ea4c9e1c44b1a0444&
3) https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...4f6abc81c3fc44aa618d3419860c2e4cda0ba9fe0fea&

Proving these Points: Most sorcerers generate C.E from their core and flow it to other parts of body which is used for attacking, reinforce physical stats and attacks, increase techniques and unleash a domain. So, Todo is saying you need to stop flow your C.E into one part to another and manifest your C.E to flow in what area you want to concentrate. The higher you concentrate, more strong attacks it does than unfocused C.E flowing.

Question can be answered as "Yes" .

Now for D.E which is considered as Domain Expansion: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...6c87ca0a4ed88694acfae3c7bb3f1b3d9da78ad6dd9e&
Let's hear what Gojo is saying.
"Construct an environment with C.E"
"Manifest through an cursed technique"
"You get a upgrade in stats due to environment like buff in video games"
now, 1st part is saying that you construct an environment like manifesting reality.
2nd part says domains are made by ones ce and is brought by cursed technique like Megumi did.
3rd part concludes that all this entails the justification of domain expansion scales to the users cursed energy meaning scales to Attack potency/Power and Strength.

Dagon made a Tropical island with his D.E using C.E( which is wider than just a island)
Jogo created volcano mountains with his D.E using his C.E
---
Let's Talk About Ap: attack potency is defined as the destructive capacity of an attack through the energy aka law of conservation of energy and is measured via energy damage equivalent to the output of an attack with inputting energy for an output to produce attacks.

So, like i said above, C.E is generated from core and flow it which is used for attacking, reinforce physical stats or attacks and other factors. Thus, it kinda equates to Ap/Strength.

lets use newtons third law according to all of this.

Newtons third law states that every single action has an equal and opposite reaction, Meaning, if you punch with X AP, your body must be strong enough to withstand the recoil of said punch and to not shatter completely

there are instances where one uses a separate attack different from their striking strength but then it's nothing more than a separate attack with its own tier
Which would mean Ap=Dura.

Therefore, Their Stats and Information about characters for JJK should be changed.

 

[Excellence616]

No, Nope, Nah, Never, I disagree with OP.

Pretty sure JJK don't run under UES.

We didn't scale DE to Durability and Strength.

 

[SunDaGamer]

We don't scale Domain Expansions to AP because Domains consume so much Cursed Energy that you can only use them once a day, unless you're Gojo or Sukuna where they're highly efficient with their CE usage, JJK Characters don't punch with so much energy that they can only punch once a day and we end up with fodders being stronger than Gojo and Sukuna's best feats if you push for Tier 6 DE scaling which slightly sprinkles in that element of author intent, you'd be hard pressed trying to convince people that Junpei scales x6800 above this. Domains also fall under Subjective Reality which is only reinforced by the fact that the stuff inside them is stated to might as well not exist.

Dagon's island creation would be like 7-C too using a mass of 2.0559235e+13 kg and the Creation Feats chart (I've noticed Youtubers like to use the Mountain level result on the calc without realizing that's from Gravitational Binding Energy which is only used for celestial bodies)

 

[Robespierre_Isidore]

We don't scale Domain Expansions to AP because Domains

Honestly just this.

If you did argue DE's scale to AP then you have Gojo's Unlimited Void which is manifesting the concept of infinity into reality through the Limitless... Gojo proceeds to break the verse over his knee with something insane due to making a domain out of the power that creates supposedly Asymptotic space according to the user himself.

At least if we were taking this all at face value.
This seems like some hot world breaking garbage in my opinion and would be astronomically silly if DE's scaled to AP.

Perhaps this is why Gege doesn't / did not want to expound on Gojo's power cause he thought of a cool power and did not realize how powerful of a hax he made until after writting it down and publishing it (I am pretty sure I saw this in an interview somewhere but I can't recall where, however he DID say he did not want to talk about Gojo and the Infinity a few times in bonus parts to chapters)

Side note; why is his DE more akin to the power of his Six Eyes with the picking up information rather than his Limitless' Spatial Manipulation?? I've always disliked that personally.

 

[BrysØn]

No, Nope, Nah, Never, I disagree with OP.

Pretty sure JJK don't run under UES.

We didn't scale DE to Durability and Strength.

your right and half wrong but it's not true that jjk doesn't have power system but they have a complex system of cursed energy which is used to enchancve physical abilities and control ct. also you re oversimplyfing and dismissing the complexity of jjk power system. They use ce to do this, it scales to their ap/dura since energy is stated as capable of doing something required for body to do.

 

[SunDaGamer]

your right and half wrong but it's not true that jjk doesn't have power system but they have a complex system of cursed energy which is used to enchancve physical abilities and control ct. also you re oversimplyfing and dismissing the complexity of jjk power system. They use ce to do this, it scales to their ap/dura since energy is stated as capable of doing something required for body to do.

We know they have a power system, but the wiki has multiple categories for energy systems specifically

Universal Energy Systems

Universal Energy Systems are a fairly common element in fictional stories possessed by certain characters to display incredible feats and powers, often being born out of fantastical or otherwise otherworldly elements such as Magic, Chakra, Chi and a myriad of other possible energy systems. Often...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[BrysØn]

We don't scale Domain Expansions to AP because Domains consume so much Cursed Energy that you can only use them once a day, unless you're Gojo or Sukuna where they're highly efficient with their CE usage, JJK Characters don't punch with so much energy that they can only punch once a day and we end up with fodders being stronger than Gojo and Sukuna's best feats if you push for Tier 6 DE scaling which slightly sprinkles in that element of author intent, you'd be hard pressed trying to convince people that Junpei scales x6800 above this. Domains also fall under Subjective Reality which is only reinforced by the fact that the stuff inside them is stated to might as well not exist.

Dagon's island creation would be like 7-C too using a mass of 2.0559235e+13 kg and the Creation Feats chart (I've noticed Youtubers like to use the Mountain level result on the calc without realizing that's from Gravitational Binding Energy which is only used for celestial bodies)

yep your right about Domain Expansions and cursed energy cost are valid and can be supported by evidence but we must also consider that Domain Expansions is a iconic ability for jjk verse to do such powerful stuffs like it, So, scaling DEs to durability/strength is still a valid argument, even if it may not align with the UES tierings.

also the author intent point is too subjective to debate against, as we would need to enter their mind to find out their intentions and i agree with dagon feat like you said.

 

[BrysØn]

We know they have a power system, but the wiki has multiple categories for energy systems specifically

Universal Energy Systems

Universal Energy Systems are a fairly common element in fictional stories possessed by certain characters to display incredible feats and powers, often being born out of fantastical or otherwise otherworldly elements such as Magic, Chakra, Chi and a myriad of other possible energy systems. Often...

vsbattles.fandom.com

ik that but every anime power system is unique tho but seeing this is absurdity like different websites or blogs may have different power-scaling systems for JJK which leads to some confusion. It will make jjk power system inconsistent so it can be confusing for people trying to scale JJK characters, as there's no consistent system.

 

[SunDaGamer]

yep your right about Domain Expansions and cursed energy cost are valid and can be supported by evidence but we must also consider that Domain Expansions is a iconic ability for jjk verse to do such powerful stuffs like it, So, scaling DEs to durability/strength is still a valid argument, even if it may not align with the UES tierings.

also the author intent point is too subjective to debate against, as we would need to enter their mind to find out their intentions and i agree with dagon feat like you said.

We don't assign characters with whatever's the biggest number we can crunch out. Argument from author intent is subjective yes but when you argue for Tier 6 scaling, the scaling chain would end up with Grade 2 sorcerers being able to tank the Fire Arrow's destruction feat or Gojo's earthquake signalling his return being something any fodder can perform which is something that's going to get a lot of disagreement with especially when there are no destructive feats near Tier 6

 

[SunDaGamer]

ik that but every anime power system is unique tho

Not all power systems are energy systems, Devil Fruits in One Piece and Devil Contracts in CSM aren't energy systems like Ki, Chakra, Nen or Magic Power that perfectly fit the criteria a Universal Energy System has (because UES is going into how energy affects physicals, not every unique mechanic behind the power system) and are a common trope in fiction

 

[BrysØn]

Honestly just this.

If you did argue DE's scale to AP then you have Gojo's Unlimited Void which is manifesting the concept of infinity into reality through the Limitless... Gojo proceeds to break the verse over his knee with something insane due to making a domain out of the power that creates supposedly Asymptotic space according to the user himself.

At least if we were taking this all at face value.
This seems like some hot world breaking garbage in my opinion and would be astronomically silly if DE's scaled to AP.

Perhaps this is why Gege doesn't / did not want to expound on Gojo's power cause he thought of a cool power and did not realize how powerful of a hax he made until after writting it down and publishing it (I am pretty sure I saw this in an interview somewhere but I can't recall where, however he DID say he did not want to talk about Gojo and the Infinity a few times in bonus parts to chapters)

Side note; why is his DE more akin to the power of his Six Eyes with the picking up information rather than his Limitless' Spatial Manipulation?? I've always disliked that personally.

Lmao, according to the DE theory, a Domain Expansion has limitless space within it, and it can be used to manipulate and distort space. So, when Gojo used his Unlimited Void, it created a Domain Expansion full of Infinite void, which can be seen as an incredible power if we scale DEs like that.


But, like you said, this kind of scaling results in Gojo's DE being absurdly powerful, and it's a bit overkill which doesn't really make sense but can be used to scale it like i said

 

[Maitreya12]

Even disregarding all potential contentious with this CRT…

The OP doesn’t even specify what tier rating the characters would change to if this thread is passed which means it’s already started on an incomplete foundation.

If you’re looking to change the tiers of the characters, it’s best to actually specify what tier ratings you’re shootings for in the first place.

 

[BrysØn]

We don't assign characters with whatever's the biggest number we can crunch out. Argument from author intent is subjective yes but when you argue for Tier 6 scaling, the scaling chain would end up with Grade 2 sorcerers being able to tank the Fire Arrow's destruction feat or Gojo's earthquake signalling his return being something any fodder can perform which is something that's going to get a lot of disagreement with especially when there are no destructive feats near Tier 6

such a show off, indeed, the biggest number one approach is not always the best way to scale characters but its correct as long the author intent being subjective

 

[BrysØn]

Not all power systems are energy systems, Devil Fruits in One Piece and Devil Contracts in CSM aren't energy systems like Ki, Chakra, Nen or Magic Power that perfectly fit the criteria a Universal Energy System has (because UES is going into how energy affects physicals, not every unique mechanic behind the power system) and are a common trope in fiction

valid point boi, not all power systems are energy systems, as you said. Some other systems such as Devil Fruits and Devil Contracts have their own systems that don't fit into the criteria of the UES.

This means that we shouldn't always treat power systems as UES compatible, as each system may have its own logic and system.

 

[M3X_2.0]

@KingTempest please close this thread.

 

[SunDaGamer]

valid point boi, not all power systems are energy systems, as you said. Some other systems such as Devil Fruits and Devil Contracts have their own systems that don't fit into the criteria of the UES.

Devil Fruits and Devil Contracts are listed off on verse explanations and abilities because they don't correlate to physicals with energy the same way a UES does

This means that we shouldn't always treat power systems as UES compatible

uhhh we already don't?

such a show off, indeed, the biggest number one approach is not always the best way to scale characters but its correct as long the author intent being subjective

Sukuna's Fire Arrow and Gojo's Earthquakes are the strongest feats we've been shown that Gege used to show off the power of the strongest sorcerers, when you try to pass something that would create a scaling chain of fodders thousands of times stronger than those, you need way more convincing evidence

 

[BrysØn]

Jo

Even disregarding all potential contentious with this CRT…

The OP doesn’t even specify what tier rating the characters would change to if this thread is passed which means it’s already started on an incomplete foundation.

If you’re looking to change the tiers of the characters, it’s best to actually specify what tier ratings you’re shootings for in the first place.

Jogo should be mountain level at least 7-A since he spawned a meteor with the amount of C.E he had.
Dagon should be 7-C at best.

Sukuna would be at 6-A at beast.
Gojo at 6-A

 

[BrysØn]

@KingTempest please close this thread.

But why? Why are you asking me to? It looks like you disagree with this

 

[BrysØn]

Devil Fruits and Devil Contracts are listed off on verse explanations and abilities because they don't correlate to physicals with energy the same way a UES does

uhhh we already don't?

Sukuna's Fire Arrow and Gojo's Earthquakes are the strongest feats we've been shown that Gege used to show off the power of the strongest sorcerers, when you try to pass something that would create a scaling chain of fodders thousands of times stronger than those, you need way more convincing evidence

Sukuna used fire arrow at his 15 finger form, imagine if he has 20 fingers.

 

[Arkenis]

Jogo should be mountain level at least 7-A since he spawned a meteor with the amount of C.E he had.
Dagon should be 7-C at best.

Sukuna would be at 6-A at beast.
Gojo at 6-A

Why is the meteor 7-A?

Why is Dagon 7-C?

Where is 6-A coming from for Sukuna and Gojo?

 

[BrysØn]

Why is the meteor 7-A?

Why is Dagon 7-C?

Where is 6-A coming from for Sukuna and Gojo?

The meteor feat was ranked 7-A because it was a large-scale feat that caused massive damage but only in the city and immediate surrounding area.

Dagon's island feat was ranked 7-C because it was a smaller-scale feat that caused significant damage to an isolated area like an island.

As for the 6-C ranking for both Sukuna and Gojo, this is because their most powerful feats were beyond the scale of the meteor and Dagon feats.

 

[Arkenis]

The meteor feat was ranked 7-A because it was a large-scale feat that caused massive damage but only in the city and immediate surrounding area.

Why is that 7-A?

Dagon's island feat was ranked 7-C because it was a smaller-scale feat that caused significant damage to an isolated area like an island.

What? How is that 7-C?

As for the 6-A ranking for both Sukuna and Gojo, this is because their most powerful feats were beyond the scale of the meteor and Dagon feats.

So they jump several thousand times stronger? Make this make sense

 

[SunDaGamer]

Jogo should be mountain level at least 7-A since he spawned a meteor with the amount of C.E he had.

Any calculations for that? The energy values for Tier 9-A to High 6-A don't necessarily correlate to the real sizes of the objects they're named after so you can't just name off the feat and assign it a tier without any calcs.

The meteor feat was ranked 7-A because it was a large-scale feat that caused massive damage but only in the city and immediate surrounding area.

Jogo's meteor didn't even completely destroy the buildings that were right next to it, it's Potential Energy is calced at Low 7-C

Sukuna used fire arrow at his 15 finger form, imagine if he has 20 fingers.

And 15F Sukuna is a narratively only second to Gojo, 20F Sukuna just scales to whatever Gojo is

As for the 6-A ranking for both Sukuna and Gojo, this is because their most powerful feats were beyond the scale of the meteor and Dagon feats.

We don't just assign tiers based off vibes

 

[BrysØn]

Why is that 7-A?


What? How is that 7-C?


So they jump several thousand times stronger? Make this make sense

Why are you ignoring and dodging what i said on first one? He spawned a meteor to cause the damage of a city which is 7-Cfeat. So, the Meteor feat was scaled to 7-C because it was large-scale and destroyed a very large area, including a city and surrounding region
Dagon's feat was ranked 7-C because it was restricted to a smaller scale of a singular island. It wasn't destructive enough to cause continental or global damage.

Sukuna and Gojo are significantly stronger than Dagon Bro, They have displayed feats that are on a much larger scale and are far more destructive.

 

[Arkenis]

city which is 7-A feat.

How so?

large-scale and destroyed a very large area, including a city and surrounding region

It did not do that.

Dagon's feat was ranked 7-C because it was restricted to a smaller scale of a singular island. It wasn't destructive enough to cause continental or global damage.

How is this town level though?

Sukuna and Gojo are significantly stronger than Dagon Bro, They have displayed feats that are on a much larger scale and are far more destructive.

Yeah I agree but not by thousands of times. That's the issue, where did you get 6-A from?

 

[BrysØn]

Any calculations for that? The energy values for Tier 9-A to High 6-A don't necessarily correlate to the real sizes of the objects they're named after so you can't just name off the feat and assign it a tier without any calcs.

Jogo's meteor didn't even completely destroy the buildings that were right next to it, it's Potential Energy is calced at Low 7-C

And 15F Sukuna is a narratively only second to Gojo, 20F Sukuna just scales to whatever Gojo is

We don't just assign tiers based off vibes

i will use newton second law.
F = mv^2 / r
Where: F is the force,
m is the mass of the meteor,
v is the velocity of the meteor,
r is the radius of the impact area
then, Jogo attack spread to 40 city blocks, which covers a distance of approximately 4km. So the power of the attack is the area of its impact (4km x 1km = 4km^2) x the force required to destroy that much area.

Sorry for misunderstanding, i mis-type 7-a as 7-c

What? Sukuna was holding back against gojo and hasn't been used his true form against him him dude

 

[BrysØn]

How so?


It did not do that.


How is this town level though?


Yeah I agree but not by thousands of times. That's the issue, where did you get 6-A from?

Re-read since mis-type.

 

[BrysØn]

The meteor feat was ranked 7-A because it was a large-scale feat that caused massive damage but only in the city and immediate surrounding area.

Dagon's island feat was ranked 7-C because it was a smaller-scale feat that caused significant damage to an isolated area like an island.

As for the 6-C ranking for both Sukuna and Gojo, this is because their most powerful feats were beyond the scale of the meteor and Dagon feats.

Re-read since mis-type

 

[Arkenis]

It did, the island was approximately 5km in diameter, which gives us a total impact area of 100km^2. We also know that Dagon's attack instantly vaporized the whole island and caused catastrophic damage to the town nearby bud.

What attack vaporized the island??? What town??? Please give me the chapter

 

[BrysØn]

What attack vaporized the island??? What town??? Please give me the chapter

Hold up,
Oh, I think there was a miscommunication here.

Dagon's Water Sphere attack did not vaporize. It destroyed the island, but it did not vaporize using his D.E to make a tropical island.

Vaporization would mean that the matter disappears into a gas or gas-like form, with no trace of the original material left behind. That didn't happen in Dagon's case; the attack simply destroyed the island but left behind debris and such.
aka chapter 107

 

[Arkenis]

It destroyed the island, but it did not vaporize using his D.E to make a tropical island.

I'm not trying to be rude or mean here but it seems like you didn't read the fight in its entirety. Dagon never destroyed his own island.

 

[Homunculus_Jr!]

Hold up,
Oh, I think there was a miscommunication here.

Dagon's Water Sphere attack did not vaporize. It destroyed the island, but it did not vaporize using his D.E to make a tropical island.

Vaporization would mean that the matter disappears into a gas or gas-like form, with no trace of the original material left behind. That didn't happen in Dagon's case; the attack simply destroyed the island but left behind debris and such.
aka chapter 107

Dagon didn't destroy the island. The domain disappeared after Toji killed Dagon.

 

[SunDaGamer]

i will use newton second law.
F = mv^2 / r
Where: F is the force,
m is the mass of the meteor,
v is the velocity of the meteor,
r is the radius of the impact area
then, Jogo attack spread to 40 city blocks, which covers a distance of approximately 4km. So the power of the attack is the area of its impact (4km x 1km = 4km^2) x the force required to destroy that much area.

4km extends beyond the 400 meter radius Curtain around Shibuya, the Shibuya Incident would've literally ended at this point according to you which is obviously not the case when the buildings next to the meteor are intact. Shigemo and Megumi were ~375 meters away from the meteor in Shibuya Stream and the buildings there were fine too

 

[Robespierre_Isidore]

Toji killed Dagon.

Dang Island level AP Toji according to the OP, that's how this works right?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Hold up,
Oh, I think there was a miscommunication here.

Dagon's Water Sphere attack did not vaporize. It destroyed the island, but it did not vaporize using his D.E to make a tropical island.

Vaporization would mean that the matter disappears into a gas or gas-like form, with no trace of the original material left behind. That didn't happen in Dagon's case; the attack simply destroyed the island but left behind debris and such.
aka chapter 107

Dagon didn't destroy the island at all, in fact bro's domain vanished after getting killed
Still a base Lloyd Garmadon victim

 

[GarrixianXD]

Bro doesn't know how to ping staff members.

@Antvasima @AKM sama @Dereck03

There ya go.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Bro doesn't know how to ping staff members.

@Antvasima @AKM sama @Dereck03

There ya go.

We don't need two bureaucrats for a thread that's obviously wrong, breaking several of our standards and from a guy that doesn't know the basic of powerscaling. But since you tagged Dereck, he can close this.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

We don't need two bureaucrats for a thread that's obviously wrong, breaking several of our standards and from a guy that doesn't know the basic of powerscaling. But since you tagged Dereck, he can close this.

Bud got sum beef with JJK

 

[GarrixianXD]

We don't need two bureaucrats for a thread that's obviously wrong, breaking several of our standards and from a guy that doesn't know the basic of powerscaling. But since you tagged Dereck, he can close this.

Good point. My bad.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]