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Strongest tier 0 currently

Both The Creator and Azzy/Yog havnt been updated to the new system and as such they should be ignored until they have been updated.

The Mathiverse is likely the strongest 0 atm (Tho trying to decide which tier 0 is the strongest is a bit trivial imo but eh).

(Tho they seem to have been changed to a blog instead if a true profile now)
 
I mean yeah but we should at least wait until its offically been put in place, we are waiting on Azzy to look it over and approve as well as Fan to offically submit the blogs right?
 
The idea that The Mathiverse is the strongest tier 0 technically has basis, but it's incorrect.

Regardless of how much transcendence the Mathiverse has, they aren't a character. They're a location, and has no means to fight. Even if nothing could reasonably destroy it, it's not particularly strong, simply because it physically can't attack anything.
 
What makes the Mathiverse more transcendent than beings like Yog, Azathoth, the Creator, and Anu? It just seems to be Tier 0 without any special features making it higher in Tier 0 than any other character.
 
Zouken said:
What makes the Mathiverse more transcendent than beings like Yog, Azathoth, the Creator, and Anu? It just seems to be Tier 0 without any special features making it higher in Tier 0 than any other character.
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It encompasses and transcends all mathematical models. Tier 0 very much falls into that.
 
I know, I just thought all Tier 0's did that, it is clearly a Tier 0 being, I just don't see what makes it more transcendent than others. Like the Creator falls outside of all definition, identity, and quantifiability; thus it should be beyond all mathamatical models as well.
 
Zouken said:
I know, I just thought all Tier 0's did that, it is clearly a Tier 0 being, I just don't see what makes it more transcendent than others. Like the Creator falls outside of all definition, identity, and quantifiability; thus it should be beyond all mathamatical models as well.
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No. The fact that they can be tiered at all in relation to both the tiering system and their own verse should mean that they are bound to mathematics in some manner. The only Tier 0s that might fit the description of being beyond mathematical quantification are Azathoth/Yog-Sothoth and The Creator. Even then, they'd be equal to the Mathiverse at best.
 
Planck69 said:
Zouken said:
I know, I just thought all Tier 0's did that, it is clearly a Tier 0 being, I just don't see what makes it more transcendent than others. Like the Creator falls outside of all definition, identity, and quantifiability; thus it should be beyond all mathamatical models as well.
Click to expand...
No. The fact that they can be tiered at all in relation to both the tiering system and their own verse should mean that they are bound to mathematics in some manner. The only Tier 0s that might fit the description of being beyond mathematical quantification are Azathoth/Yog-Sothoth and The Creator. Even then, they'd be equal to the Mathiverse at best.
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is not kinda NFL saying that the math are Tier 0
 
Livinmeme said:
is not kinda NFL saying that the math are Tier 0
Click to expand...
Mathematics in itself encompasses Tier 0 and any extensions thereof since it can define the tier quite handily. What I do not agree on is a fictional character being stated to encompass all of mathematics when that is fundamentally imposssible to prove. Otherwise, Yog-Sothoth would be equal to the Mathiverse via encompassing mathematics itself as well.
 
Lord Zeref Dragneel said:
If they have the same statements on encompassing Math we can only assume they are equal
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Actually, this is Yog-Sothoth's statement;

In the face of that awful wonder, the quasi-Carter forgot the horror of destroyed individuality. It was an All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self—not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence's whole unbounded sweep—the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike. It was perhaps that which certain secret cults of earth have whispered of as YOG-SOTHOTH, and which has been a deity under other names; that which the crustaceans of Yuggoth worship as the Beyond-One, and which the vaporous brains of the spiral nebulae know by an untranslatable Sign—yet in a flash the Carter-facet realised how slight and fractional all these conceptions are.

Make of it what you will.
 
The difference is that Flatland was written by a metematician, who has actually written down on the book the variud mathematical theorums instead of an off-hand mention
 
Overlord775 said:
The difference is that Flatland was written by a metematician, who has actually written down on the book the variud mathematical theorums instead of an off-hand mentio
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Being written by a mathematician means jack if they don't back up any claims in the setting. Could you post where Cantorian Set Theory, Inaccesible and Large Cardinals, not to mention Proper Classes were referred to in relation to the cosmology? Because that's what it would take to qualify for Tier 0, much less encompassing all of mathematics.
 
Overlord775 said:
IDK, didn't read Flatterland
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Then....then why I are you sayiing it's more reliable?

Not to mention this other statement about, not Yog-Sothoth but merely the Outer Void;


There were suggestions of the vague, twilight abysses, and of still vaster, blacker abysses beyond them—abysses in which all fixed suggestions of form were absent. He had been taken there by the bubble-congeries and the little polyhedron which always dogged him; but they, like himself, had changed to wisps of milky, barely luminous mist in this farther void of ultimate blackness. Something else had gone on ahead—a larger wisp which now and then condensed into nameless approximations of form—and he thought that their progress had not been in a straight line, but rather along the alien curves and spirals of some ethereal vortex which obeyed laws unknown to the physics and mathematics of any conceivable cosmos. Eventually there had been a hint of vast, leaping shadows, of a monstrous, half-acoustic pulsing, and of the thin, monotonous piping of an unseen flute—but that was all. Gilman decided he had picked up that last conception from what he had read in the Necronomicon about the mindless entity Azathoth, which rules all time and space from a curiously environed black throne at the centre of Chaos.

Said Gilman is well-versed in niche and high-level mathematics;

Possibly Gilman ought not to have studied so hard. Non-Euclidean calculus and quantum physics are enough to stretch any brain; and when one mixes them with folklore, and tries to trace a strange background of multi-dimensional reality behind the ghoulish hints of the Gothic tales and the wild whispers of the chimney-corner, one can hardly expect to be wholly free from mental tension. Gilman came from Haverhill, but it was only after he had entered college in Arkham that he began to connect his mathematics with the fantastic legends of elder magic.
Do I believe that Yog-Sothoth transcends all mathematics possible? Not quite. But he sure as hell has as much of a right as the Mathiverse. I say this from a vs debating perpective, the concept of the Mathiverse itself is fine but not when you're trying to give it defined statistics.
 
ok, so went and got back the quote, and no, that's very much not even comarable to Mathiverse's explanation

"What is the Mathiverse? The Mathiverse transcends Time and Space... it transcends Intelligence and Extelligence... it transcends Thought; it transcends Transcendence itself. Within it - and 'within' is definitely the wrong word, for concepts such as 'inside' and 'outside' apply to individual Spaces, not to the unfathomable reaches of the mathiverse - are not just all Spaces and Times that have existed, or all Spaces and Times that will exist, or even all Spaces and Times that could exist. It also contains (wrong word, again) all Spaces and Times that could not exist, if only as a grim warning of the dangers of the nonexistent.

The Mathiverse contains all numbers.

The Mathiverse contains all shapes.

The Mathiverse contains all geometries.

The Mathiverse contains all vectors, matrices, permutations, combinations, integrations, separations, projections, injections, functions, functors, functionals, algebraic group schemes, supermanifolds, K-theories, M-theories, M-sets, power sets, subsets, supersets, and plain, ordinary, common-or-garden sets.

The Mathiverse contains all data structures.

The Mathiverse contains all processes.

The Mathiverse contains all formal descriptions of logical structures.

The Mathiverse contains all informal descriptions of illogical structures.

If one day somebody managed to invent a new kind of thing, something that wasn't a Space or a Time but somehow belonged in the same category (Now that you mention it, the Mathiverse contains all categories)... Anyway, if someone managed to do what I've just said, then whatever they came up with would have been present in the Mathiverse all along (Except, as you've guessed, "would", "have", "been", "present", "all", "along" and "in" are the wrong words, we can probably accept "the" though)"
 
nothing......is weird. still cant completetly wrap my head around the concept of nothing. though i atleast do know that nothing is both above and below everything in some crazy meta-transendental way with nothing not equaling non-existence but something entierly else, something beyond. its a weird concept thats really diffcuilt to understand. Just like The Box is the container of everything regardless how broad everything is, nothing is a lack of everything regardless of how broad everything is.
 
DarkGrath said:
The idea that The Mathiverse is the strongest tier 0 technically has basis, but it's incorrect.

Regardless of how much transcendence the Mathiverse has, they aren't a character. They're a location, and has no means to fight. Even if nothing could reasonably destroy it, it's not particularly strong, simply because it physically can't attack anything.
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I've been told god exists in flatterland and embodies the mathiverse
 
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