Strongest 2-C smurf (Dracula vs Xuan_Fang)

[deonment]

We aren't arguing that Xuan fang is such an special snowflake, that he bypasses speed equalized rule. Also, by going with speed equalized rule, Dracula IS IMMENSURABLE, making it ******* useless

???
Speed equal equalizes to the lower speed, not the higher speed, kek
And no I'm not arguing it, I'm arguing the person with a technique that will amp his speed to immeasurable is actually capable of amping his speed to immeasurable

 

[Livinmeme]

Wow, so Dracula's plothax can handle 1-A things? Can I have the feats for that?

Wow, so Xuan fang Conceptaul manipulation can handle things it can't touch? Can I have the feats for that. My entire arguments is that XUan fang CM is thought based, which is not going to happen, because if it happens then dracula won't be able to perform a "bad ending" into xuan fang life (by virtue of, once again, deceased)

Read your own scans, the "writing bad endings" shit is active and different from the plot armor, and once more, he just uses bending and GTFOs

SBA assumes that both are at their peak, and in this case, Dracula plot manip would have already entered into reality

The plot armor that is passive to an infinite instantly immeasurable character

Dracula is, going by the SBA

Nope, the shit is literally apart of the second step basic P&A

My bad.

Plot manip doesn't mean shit when it can't get to affect Xuan Fang and he can just hit bro with the 1-A time stop or whatever else he wants to use

I...What? He is affecting his narrative, something that doesn't have to do anything with conceptual manipulation, think of as this way, Xuan fang may have an 1-A conceptual existence, but not an 1-A narrative existence

Yes but once again, passives are only assumed to be infinite in their application, so Xuan Fang is literally equal in speed to the passive in speed, so it doesn't do shit anyways and he is entirely able to just use bending during that duration, and if Dracula tries to kill Xuan Fang (which he ******* will), he just gets nuked from another time period thanks to that immortality

No? That is stupid, why should we assume dracula passives are slower than his own regular haxes, in speed equalized, and that would be double think to assume that Dracula becomes immensurable because SE, along with all of his haxes, but not his passives

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Chinaman fra

 

[deonment]

SBA assumes that both are at their peak, and in this case, Dracula plot manip would have already entered into reality

That isn't what at their peak means
lmfao
It means characters are at their strongest AP/Key wise, nothing about powers already being in play at the start of the match
Also addendum to my last post, Xuan Fang is still entirely capable of just walking backwards in the timeline still even at infinite speed because speed equal doesn't remove powers due to speed, so even without bending he "steps" into the river of time and gives literal 0 *****

 

[Livinmeme]

That isn't what at their peak means
lmfao
It means characters are at their strongest AP/Key wise, nothing about powers already being in play at the start of the match
Also addendum to my last post, Xuan Fang is still entirely capable of just walking backwards in the timeline still even at infinite speed because speed equal doesn't remove powers due to speed, so even without bending he "steps" into the river of time and gives literal 0 *****

Peak means at their peak, and I am pretty sure that the fight SHOULD take into dracula castle, which already has it baked by default.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Wow, so Xuan fang Conceptaul manipulation can handle things it can't touch? Can I have the feats for that. My entire arguments is that XUan fang CM is thought based, which is not going to happen, because if it happens then dracula won't be able to perform a "bad ending" into xuan fang life (by virtue of, once again, deceased)

Before I do anything else, read this thread please

The problem with Plot Manipulation.

(This thread has now been moved to a Staff thread, so none staff members without permission needs to first ask a staff member to talk here) Let's get straight to the point. When we deal with plot manipulation on the profile in versus battles, their are always full of NLFs. The majority of...

vsbattles.com

Yeah the bad ending thing looks like an active ability, not a passive, so yeh.

Peak means at their peak, and I am pretty sure that the fight SHOULD take into dracula castle, which already has it baked by default.

Show me where peak means the characters automatically get prep

 

[deonment]

Peak means at their peak, and I am pretty sure that the fight SHOULD take into dracula castle, which already has it baked by default.

Yeah it does, but it doesn't mean hax is already in effect before the match starting
And yes, the castle is in play, but that's because Dracula summons his castle by just existing, but it doesn't actually mean that it already exists before the match even starts, and even then, castle passives are different from plot manip

 

[Livinmeme]

Show me where peak means the characters automatically get prep

Did you read what I wrote? It is by default, because the battle takes place in the castle

 

[Livinmeme]

Yeah it does, but it doesn't mean hax is already in effect before the match starting
And yes, the castle is in play, but that's because Dracula summons his castle by just existing, but it doesn't actually mean that it already exists before the match even starts, and even then, castle passives are different from plot manip

So that means the castle is passive, so something instantaneously, which has plot manip, which is also instantaneously

 

[DaReaperMan]

Did you read what I wrote? It is by default, because the battle takes place in the castle

Actually, of all the things castle passives do, Plot Manipulation isn't one of them!
"Void Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1), Time Manipulation, Gravity Manipulation, Chaos Manipulation, Pain Manipulation, Dimensional Manipulation and Forced Duplication"

These are the castle passives

So that means the castle is passive, so something instantaneously, which has plot manip, which is also instantaneously

However, it's infinite speed so like... not really. Especially cause Drac has massive upscaling

 

[deonment]

So that means the castle is passive, so something instantaneously, which has plot manip, which is also instantaneously

1)Passives are infinite speed application, so since he is infinite speed, he is entirely able of just, walking outside of the ******* castle
2)The plot manip is different from the castle
3)This doesn't matter because Xuan Feng is entirely able of just walking through and camping out in the river of time, so nope

 

[DaReaperMan]

1)Passives are infinite speed application, so since he is infinite speed, he is entirely able of just, walking outside of the ******* castle
2)The plot manip is different from the castle
3)This doesn't matter because Xuan Feng is entirely able of just walking through and camping out in the river of time, so nope

Also, Drac could be dead by the time the castle is even in play, which would take him longer then the battle finishing to come back from, so there's that

 

[Livinmeme]

Actually, of all the things castle passives do, Plot Manipulation isn't one of them!
"Void Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1), Time Manipulation, Gravity Manipulation, Chaos Manipulation, Pain Manipulation, Dimensional Manipulation and Forced Duplication"

These are the castle passives

Lul.
1. That isn't even the entire list of passives
2. The castle should INHERENTLY have those, due to it being filled to the brim with creatures of chaos

However, it's infinite speed so like... not really.

Aren't passives in castlevania, able to affect characters, implying that they are faster than their own users? And it is stupid to inherently assume that passives are slower/comparable to their users without some heavy proofs, and we just assume that the basic bitch passive is infinite

 

[Livinmeme]

3)This doesn't matter because Xuan Feng is entirely able of just walking through and camping out in the river of time, so nope

STOP CHANGING

2)The plot manip is different from the castle

I have already explained it

1)Passives are infinite speed application, so since he is infinite speed, he is entirely able of just, walking outside of the ******* castle

YOU CAN'T CHAGE YOUR MIND HALF WAY TROUGH THE MATCH. You first said that he can amp, now you are implying that he is naturally immensurable (which I mean..He is) with speed equalized in mind
1. Not inherently, some passives are immensurable
2. We assume that because passives are always on, they are infinite, and it would be absurd to assume that something that the passives of castlevania character are as fast as their character, when they are shown to be always on

 

[DaReaperMan]

Lul.
1. That isn't even the entire list of passives
2. The castle should INHERENTLY have those, due to it being filled to the brim with creatures of chaos

So that's 2 entire infinite speed things that have to go off for Xuan fang to lose when he is massively upscaling from baseline infinite speed cause Dracula does. Man if only Xuan Fang was anything but Immeasurable or Infinite right? Now count my vote for the furry please

Aren't passives in castlevania, able to affect characters, implying that they are faster than their own users? And it is stupid to inherently assume that passives are slower/comparable to their users without some heavy proofs, and we just assume that the basic bitch passive is infinite

I didn't make the rules I just follow them livin~

 

[Livinmeme]

So that's 2 entire infinite speed things that have to go off for Xuan fang to lose when he is massively upscaling from baseline infinite speed cause Dracula does. Man if only Xuan Fang was anything but Immeasurable or Infinite right? Now count my vote for the furry please

what...Dude, you are saying that castlevania characters are faster than their passives, I am not counting anything, that is just absurd, stupid, and an utterly insane opinion to have

I didn't make the rules I just follow them livin~

Show me where those rules are, Da~

 

[deonment]

HALF WAY TROUGH THE MATCH. You first said that he can amp, now you are implying that he is naturally immensurable (which I mean..He is) with speed equalized in mind
1. Not inherently, some passives are immensurable
2. We assume that because passives are always on, they are infinite, and it would be absurd to assume that something that the passives of castlevania character are as fast as their character, when they are shown to be always on

Yeah because I reread the standards and it explicitly says immesarauble characters who get speed equaled to a lower tier are still entirely capable of moving through time

Yeah no, we assume passives apply themselves within their "AoE" at an infinite speed, the time it takes for that effect to apply is different between verses, but infinite speed is the baseline assumption, and so once again, doesn't matter

I have already explained it

Those are still two separate passives, don't know what else to tell you

 

[Livinmeme]

Yeah because I reread the standards and it explicitly says immesarauble characters who get speed equaled to a lower tier are still entirely capable of moving through time

Wait wut? I didn't know that

Yeah no, we assume passives apply themselves within their "AoE" at an infinite speed, the time it takes for that effect to apply is different between verses, but infinite speed is the baseline assumption, and so once again, doesn't matter

If passives worked like that in castlevania, they wouldn't be passives because the characters would be able to outspeed them, WHICH HAS NEVER HAPPENED (to my memory, at the very least). Passives are faster than baseline infinite, because not even infinite speed characters are able to outspeed them

 

[DaReaperMan]

what...Dude, you are saying that castlevania characters are faster than their passives, I am not counting anything, that is just absurd, stupid, and an utterly insane opinion to have

Is this vote Manipulation Livin?

Show me where those rules are, Da~

We both know where they are, I'm not doing all of the heavy lifting for you(Versus threads Rules makes a mention of non-immeasurable passives, just to put you on the right track)

 

[Livinmeme]

We both know where they are, I'm not doing all of the heavy lifting for you(Versus threads Rules makes a mention of non-immeasurable passives, just to put you on the right track)

It says that it can't be added...Which I am not planning to do, because this is a match with speed equalized for the strongest thread

 

[DaReaperMan]

It says that it can't be added...Which I am not planning to do, because this is a match with speed equalized for the strongest thread

That went so far over your head it hit the moon, try again.

 

[Livinmeme]

Is this vote Manipulation Livin?

When someone starts to argue that character A is slower than their passives because vague claims, and rules THAT DON'T APPLY then yes.

 

[Livinmeme]

That went so far over your head it hit the moon, try again.

I literally c+f the word passive, and it only says the rule who I have previously mentioned

 

[deonment]

Wait wut? I didn't know that

• Abilities based on speed are assumed to be retained. Characters that can run over water via speed can, for example, still do so even if now technically too slow for that. Likewise, a character who can create a tornado by running fast in a circle can still create one in this manner, even though they are now running slower.
  • As a result, Immeasurable characters that get speed equalized retain their ability to travel through time, even if it now isn't via speed anymore.

If passives worked like that in castlevania, they wouldn't be passives because the characters would be able to outspeed them, WHICH HAS NEVER HAPPENED (to my memory, at the very least). Passives are faster than baseline infinite, because not even infinite speed characters are able to outspeed them

Outspeed and keep pace with are two separate things, and most of the time when it comes to the castle, it is mostly people getting jumped by it (and mostly fodder at that who don't scale to infinite) or the person in question having resistance, so it doesn't matter either way, hell Dracula summoning the castle while passive isn't even instant, shit actually takes some time to manifest iirc

 

[DaReaperMan]

When someone starts to argue that character A is slower than their passives because vague claims, and rules THAT DON'T APPLY then yes.

sigh

Passives are not instant on immeasurable characters.

Passives are given a speed value, I put you on the track, now finish the race.

There's also the fact the only people the passives have affected in Castlevania are those who straight up aren't infinite in speed, cause every ****** who has infinite resists ALL OF THEM.

 

[Livinmeme]

Outspeed and keep pace with are two separate things, and most of the time when it comes to the castle, it is mostly people getting jumped by it (and mostly fodder at that who don't scale to infinite) or the person in question having resistance, so it doesn't matter either way, hell Dracula summoning the castle while passive isn't even instant, shit actually takes some time to manifest iirc

Show me an instance of a character getting outpseed, because once again, are pulling assumptions out of thin air. Which I may list...will

But what if the characters were slower than their passives

Stupid assumption to make

But what if the plot manip wasn't passive

I have already explained it

But what about bending

Something we don't know if he starts with

But what about conceptual manipulation

Vague, really vague, can it be used offensively to begin with?

 

[Livinmeme]

Passives are not instant on immeasurable characters.

Passives are given a speed value, I put you on the track, now finish the race.

There's also the fact the only people the passives have affected in Castlevania are those who straight up aren't infinite in speed, cause every ****** who has infinite resists ALL OF THEM.

It doesn't say that, it says that it would be unfair for a faster character, to get memmed by a passive, which...Well he is faster, and that is why the match won't be added, nothing about fanmade threads with wonky rules

 

[DaReaperMan]

Also, this time, I'm not asking. Count my vote.

It doesn't matter what your opinion on my reasons for making the vote I did are, what matter is that I voted, and you're refusing to count it. Unless a note on your record for Vote Manipulation is something you want in your future?

It doesn't say that, it says that it would be unfair for a faster character, to get memmed by a passive, which...Well he is faster, and that is why the match won't be added, nothing about fanmade threads with wonky rules

I'm not spoonfeeding you Livin. I put you on the tracks, now finish the race. I gave you Versus thread rules because it itself heavily implied Passives have a set value. If you don't wanna, we're at an impass, and will go circular forever.

 

[Livinmeme]

I'm not spoonfeeding you Livin. I put you on the tracks, now finish the race. I gave you Versus thread rules because it itself heavily implied Passives have a set value. If you don't wanna, we're at an impass, and will go circular forever.

Passives are assumed to have infinite, without any evidence to put them higher/lower, in this case they are shown to be faster than infinite speed characters. And I will put your vote, but because I don't want to get destroyed by angry mod...Again (cures you agnaa)

 

[DaReaperMan]

Passives are assumed to have infinite, without any evidence to put them higher/lower, in this case they are shown to be faster than infinite speed characters. And I will put your vote, but because I don't want to get destroyed by angry mod...Again (cures you agnaa)

And where is the feat of the passives affecting these infinite speed characters... There isn't any, becuase they all resist em for the fact of they've been around things with the passives longer then I take to finish!

 

[Livinmeme]

And where is the feat of the passives affecting these infinite speed characters... There isn't any, becuase they all resist em for the fact of they've been around things with the passives longer then I take to finish!

I don't get it, they are faster/equal in speed...Because they resist it? What? It should be assumed that passives are faster than their own users, by virtue of always being activated

 

[Robo432343]

never cook again

 

[Livinmeme]

never cook again

After you

 

[Livinmeme]

Anyways. Passives are assumed to not only be infinite in speed, but also inherently faster than their own user, because if the user is immensurable for an example, the passive is already in effect before he does/can do anything. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule, but that is the standard

 

[CodeCCLL]

Actually, 4D passive haxes should be able to affect characters has standard immeasurable speed. Because characters with standard immeasurable speed cannot escape an attack across the entire space-time continuum.

 

[Robo432343]

someone with immeasurable speed would blitz before the passive hax activates

 

[deonment]

Actually, 4D passive haxes should be able to affect characters has standard immeasurable speed. Because characters with standard immeasurable speed cannot escape an attack across the entire space-time continuum.

?
The castle or plot hax while 4D don't actually affect the whole space-time continuum, the castle literally has a defined area and while it contains multiple space-times within itself, it doesn't actually encompass the whole continuum, literally has never been that way

Anyways. Passives are assumed to not only be infinite in speed, but also inherently faster than their own user, because if the user is immensurable for an example, the passive is already in effect before he does/can do anything. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule, but that is the standard

The castle literally takes multiple whole ass seconds to get summoned whenever Dracula comes around (see the games where he has been revived by outside sources)

 

[Robo432343]

oryx stomps drac

 

[Livinmeme]

I am going to sleep, So I believe that you have the honor to NOT argue while the biggest contribuitor of this thread is literally unable to respond.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I am going to sleep, So I believe that you have the honor to NOT argue while the biggest contribuitor of this thread is literally unable to respond.

Quick, rouse all of the chinaman and Castlevania supporters!