• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Steven Universe Issues: Lapis' Tower

Assaltwaffle

VS Battles
Retired
8,438
3,293
Sorry Weekly and other SU fans, but this was a long time coming.

I believe that the current rating for many Steven Universe characters is not accurate. At the moment, Steven himself, Lapis Lazuli, Alexandrite, and Malachite all scale to Lapis' tower feat, the latter two being outright Moon level due to the weakened Lapis' feat being SO close to 5-C.

These are all wrong, for one reason or another. Here are my issues with this.

1. The Calculation is incorrect. In the calculation, it calcs how much energy the entire ocean would yield if it traveled at escape velocity. This relies on two assumptions; the entire ocean is used and the ocean traveled at escape velocity. While the entire ocean was most certainly used, as the blog gives numerous examples of, it would NOT need to reach escape velocity to get into outer space.

You may be asking yourself: "But it must reach escape velocity in order to get into outer space, wouldn't it?"

This is true for single, unattached objects, such as space ships and satellites, but a structure built on top of itself to get to these heights would not need to break these speeds, as the tower itself would provide the base for the next piece of the tower to stack onto. It doesn't need to travel any speed to get into outer space, so long as it is able to have a "footing" to stand on, so to speak. The principle of Lapis' tower works almost exactly like a Space elevator, which also would not need to break escape velocity.

This renders the entire calculation invalid, outright. Other methods of calculation can be used to get a rating, and I would be glad to do them (its the least I can do for shoving this downgrade into the limelight), but this version assuming escape velocity is not an accurate method.

2. Steven doesn't tank the ocean normally. While he does shield the gang at the bottom of the tower, there are three concerns with this.

A. Area of effect: Steven only shielded the water that hit his bubble. Similar to inverse square law, he would not tank the entire power of the collapsing tower, only the a much smaller part of it, as the entire tower would not land square on his shield. The entire ocean returned very quickly, indicating a decent chunk of it hit away from the tower's location.

B. Timeframe: We rate our characters based off what they can do/tank in one attack or in one second. Even if the tower fell directly on Steven's shield, it would take a while for the entire thing to hit him. MUCH longer than one second.

C. Falling: The tower fell on Steven. AKA it did not travel at escape velocity on Steven. If the water somehow fell through the atmosphere and didn't burn up on reentry (and that alone is hard to believe), it would only be traveling at 8 km/s, not 11.2 km/s. This would nerf the overall yield of the tower falling, in addition to the two concerns above.

Also the 8 km/s wouldn't even apply to Lapis, since I would not be wall level for dropping a boulder off of a clip that I carried to the top.

I know this is probably hard and a lot to take in, but please comment below. Considering Steven Universe is a massive verse, I will be highlighting this.

TLDR: The Lapis calc is inaccurate as it doesn't need to hit escape velocity, and Steven doesn't scale to it either way.
 
Triggered by mrlorgin-d9aahmc
u wot m8?


I want you to consider your actions very carefully assalt.

But I will let weekly respond, he can articulate better my opinion then I can.
 
I have no idea atm. Like I said, I would be glad to come up with some alternatives. It ain't hitting Moon, though. I could probably find the GBE of the tower considering how absolutely huge it is.

If you want to leave some suggestions for possible ways to quantify this I am all ears to other options, as well.
 
If it literally didn't need to have any speed, it'd be unquantifiable with this method. GBE is probably the way to go.
 
If its even halfway through High 6-A the Diamonds would likely still scale to 5-C

Plus there's Lapis' other High 6-A feat from keeping Malachite trapped at the bottom of the ocean
 
Assaltwaffle said:
If you want to leave some suggestions for possible ways to quantify this I am all ears to other options, as well.
GBE is fair

What about KE? It can be assumed Lapis did it fairly quick i assume.

I also think you can calculate how much energy it would take to terraform Venus, which could yield some high results considering that is what a lapis supposed to do.
 
Don't let emotions get the better of you. If there's something wrong with it, there's something wrong. I don't care what verse is involved , downgrades or whatever, as long as it's accurate. He shouldn't consider anything.... That is his job as a Mod. That's simply your anger talking.
 
The gap between halfway through High 6-A and 5-C is bigger than the gap between Graham's number and Amitabha's speed. Pretty sure we're not allowed to pull results from nowhere, unless the calc says otherwise.
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
Don't let emotions get the better of you. If there's something wrong with it, there's something wrong. I don't care what verse is involved , downgrades or whatever, as long as it's accurate. He shouldn't consider anything.... That is his job as a Mod. That's simply your anger talking.
As far as I can tell, no one is angry lol.

I joked about it, although I am personally neutral.

If the calc is wrong, its wrong.

Simple as that.
 
The tone of your text and the "triggered" part slightly implied to me you were angry... Albeit... It is hard to tell whether one is joking or not on the Internet.

Anyways I am neutral on this, albeit I do care about Steven Universe quite a bit.
 
So we have terraforming and GBE. Both are very likely to hit High 6-A, considering the ocean is over 10^21 kg, but Moon is sooooo high. Like nearly 20,000 times higher than High 6-A high.

Basically Moon level and Steven's scaling need to be axed, imo. I'm sure Kep and I can get a replacement calc in there that will probably hit High 6-A.
 
By the way, how was this even accepted in the first place? Endless Mike went against it.
 
Kepekley23 said:
The gap between halfway through High 6-A and 5-C is bigger than the gap between Graham's number and Amitabha's speed.
Hopefully this is a joking hyperbole, if not, it's horrifically untrue.
 
Assaltwaffle said:
So we have terraforming and GBE. Both are very likely to hit High 6-A, considering the ocean is over 10^21 kg, but Moon is sooooo high. Like nearly 20,000 times higher than High 6-A high.
Basically Moon level and Steven's scaling need to be axed, imo. I'm sure Kep and I can get a replacement calc in there that will probably hit High 6-A.
Well, I would recommend a low end for mars and a high end for venus.

I literally considered doing the calc myself, even have prelim research I can share with you two.

It basically is the things you need to do to terraform both planets.
 
Assaltwaffle said:
So we have terraforming and GBE. Both are very likely to hit High 6-A, considering the ocean is over 10^21 kg, but Moon is sooooo high. Like nearly 20,000 times higher than High 6-A high.
Basically Moon level and Steven's scaling need to be axed, imo. I'm sure Kep and I can get a replacement calc in there that will probably hit High 6-A.
Three actually, the one for lapis using all the worlds oceans to crush malachite if i can find the blog about it

Also whadya mean? the difference between High 6-A and 5-C is only 6000+x
 
@Ryukama

I assumed joke, considering you can actually express Amitabha's speed without stacking like a hundred powers on top of each other.
 
Hopefully this is a joking hyperbole, if not, it's horrifically untrue.

You got it, bro.
 
I think that this seems to make sense, but a new calculation blog has to be made for the feat. Perhaps DontTalk can help out?
 
@Ryu

Yeah I know it is stupid large. It is just piles of powers stacked on each other for a stupid long time. It is... really big. Like big to the point that I don't like it at all. That said back to the matter at hand.

Is there anyone that believes that escape velocity should be used or Steven should scale to the tower's collapse?
 
Assaltwaffle said:
@Ryu
Is there anyone that believes that escape velocity should be used or Steven should scale to the tower's collapse?
Well setting aside my bias, I am not sure.

I dont know even the concept of escape velocity.

I do partly think steven scales, but I dont have a great argument other then if lapis is High 6-A and steven can tank attacks from lapis clones it is likely.

It isnt even his highest end to be fair, that would probably the cluster with the bubbles.
 
Lapis's profile links a calc that Endless Mike rejected for reasons that are 99.999999999% similar to the ones in the OP.
 
Kepekley23 said:
Lapis's profile links a calc that Endless Mike rejected for reasons that are 99.999999999% similar to the ones in the OP.
I have seen TTGL calcs before with Wakfu, so when I saw it I thought 'oh its this guy, he legit.'

My fault? Sure. I will concede there.

I just say we bury it and call it a day, we all make mistakes.

Even though this one is a big one..
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Guys, look at the calc Ever linked
1 exaton for Lapis.

I find 5-C diamonds still fine since

A. Cracked Gem

B. Still casual.

C. Superior to lapis (forgot this part) by a wide margin
 
The Everlasting said:
Ooh. A potential energy calc. I ruled this out immediately, though. The PE formula uses 9.8 m/s (acceleration due to gravity) which is fine, normally, but it is the effect of gravity on Earth's surface. When the object is over 10 times higher than the Mesosphere, I don't think that number would stay the same.

In fact I still have no idea what the number would be for something that would have technically already escaped Earth's orbit...
 
Okay, so even playing devils advocate and assuming that this calc is also bullshit, weekly also has another calc that put them at 18 petatons.

I am fine with 6-A/High 6-A lapis if Malachite still outputs this level.
 
PE can also use different values for gravity.

The problem is, I can't wrap my head around what the number would be so far from the surface.
 
@Kink the 18 Petaton feat was also done while Lapis wasnt at full power, and Malachite is >>>>>>>>>>>>> Lapis
 
Back
Top