Statistics Amplification downgrade for offence heart (dmc)

[PimpDemon]

So according to dante wiki page about Statistics Amplification for the offence heart and Quick heart. It states that they increases his strength and speed ten fold respectively. This is true for the Quick heart as seen here. Woah
Where it states "he can also gain the power to fly through the air, or to run across the ground at ten times his normal speed." however not once does it talk about strength, meaning this statment is only about speed. This is even proven by the Description for the offence heart which states his devil trigger strength can nearly be doubled via the offence heart. As seen here
Little fact
So in other words offence heart should be downgraded to only around a two times increase in strength not ten times. On Statistics Amplification

 

[Mister6ame6]

Yeah, i agree they likely just forgot to put double for the offence heart and instead, they putted tenfold for both

We don't threat offence heart as being 10X times, regardless

 

[PimpDemon]

Well fix it dont be lazy xD

 

[Mister6ame6]

We will we are just waiting for another DMC CTR to finish and then we apply all the upgrades and changes needed.

 

[PimpDemon]

Nice nice

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

They most likely forgot to reread and check the stat boost, misread it, or possibly thought the same applied to Offence Heart.

But yeah, I agree to the downgrade too since it's clearly stated to be a near/an around 2x boost.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I believe people just scaled the 10X to all Stats Amp Hearts back in the day

And yeah, it's wrong XD

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Shouldn't the 2X strength and 10x speed multiplier be stacked over the boost already provided by DT or do we replace the multiplier of DT with the amulet multipliers...cuz the few fight threads I have seen seem to imply a replacement??

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

im late to the party but we never used the offecence heart at x10 because no one knew what multiplier it was lol :'v but yeah, i agree

now we need to find the multiplier for dt ;_;

 

[Mister6ame6]

2X according to DMC 1 guidebook

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

2X according to DMC 1 guidebook

for alastor, i mean one for his own/rebellion DT and that is literally nonexistent

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

If you have ever used Style switcher mod on DMC3 on PC....you can edit the attribute factors of weapon DTs like damage, speed, regen speed, dura, elemental buffs and even hit stun resistances kinda like the one Beowulf DT has which gives you "super armor"....but you can still view the default values anyway.

All factors are in range of 1.0 to 1.2 on average and 1.3 iirc for special ones like Nevan regen and Cerberus speed....though I could be wrong on exact values

 

[Mister6ame6]

Oh yeah, in that case we don't have anything for that, we only know that his DT forms can stomp someone that is comparable to base form and SDT can stomp someone that can stomp the DT forms

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

the thing is, we can't use game data to determine stuff because, you know, its game data, there you can find enemies that hit harder than dante when canonically he stomps them left and right

 

[Mister6ame6]

Yeah Tony is right on this one, canonically the DT and SDT forms stomp anything that don't have Sparda blood on they veins

The only exception to the rule is Mundus

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Hmm alright....but we will consider the unknown multipliers to be equal for both AP and speed right??
Unofficially it was 7.5x for one shotting I believe in the past on this wiki?

 

[Mister6ame6]

For what I know, we don't give 7,5X of AP and speed boost for transformations that can stomp characters in verse.

We just treat that they can stomp the opponents in VS matchups that are equal to his AP, but i could be wrong on this.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Well IF these multipliers are used here anyway...then after stacking amulets it will be...
7.5×2=15 for AP and 7.5×10=75 for Speed...thats pretty good......
Edit:- in my opinion the one shot multiplier should depend on which verse you are fighting...for e.g Dante goes up against say a verse where +20% or +30% is enough for one shot then that should be used.....or if its a verse with hypothetical 100x even though its an extreme example then Dante should get 100x as well...
In short multiplier should be determined by opposing verse's mecahnics...

 

[Lightning_XXI]

No, guys

The guide says that Dante can run 10 faster when on DT + Quick Heart, 10x is the combo, not the Heart alone. The 2X amp can be used sure, it's official, but that doesn't make it 20x since 10 is already counting on DT's amp aswell

At best, you can say DT (2X the Power) + Offence Heart (Stated to Double DT's amp) results in a 4x boost in AP, but that's the best without assumptions

And the 7,5x is not applicable for scalling, never was, it's just something used for VS Threads One Shots, and I believe they don't use it anymore

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

But isn't 2x on every stat on Alastor DT?? Granted that matured DT as seen in DMC2,4,5 should be superior anyway so maybe that works as a lowball.....but still one shot value is still undetermined anyways even though it should be bigger than 2x ( since 7.5 isn't used anymore) so depending on matchup the value should be decided on case by case basis and strength amp of 2x via amulet would be stacked on it, so it would be....
○Bare minimum 2x2=4 if no value is determined..
○if value is determined as say variable Y in particular matchup via verse equalisation then..... Y×2

As for speed....since you clarified that DT and amulet work in a combo and give 10x collectively rather than stacked then DT will straight up give 10 times speed boost nothing more nothing less.....

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I believe the statement about DT being a 2x boost in power and speed is from Devil May Cry 1, not exactly only Alastor's DT, and we saw, in Visions of V, Vergil's memories from Dante against Nelo Angelo and he had Rebellion with him, so it's possible that Capcom retconned Dante not using Rebellion in 1, meaning that the 2x can also be used for the regular DT

I don't think DT gets stronger with time (I don't remember statements talking about this), but Dante's base certainly did, we use DT as just a multiplier from his base power similar to Super Saiyan forms, meaning Dante is OP af in DT because it mults his already strong base. Now sure, since Rebellion is stronger than Alastor in Lore, the DT should also be, but we can't assume any number besides 2X + the Hearts, I agree with your example

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

I believe there was a statement regarding DT maturation( not necessarily means power boost..could be and couldn't be...has to be searched) in DMC4 I think since thats where we see it for first time....but its still visible regardless in series....

As far as default multipier is concerned....well I will go for unspecified rather than 2X....just state one shot capable over his base human form and leave it at that on his profile..as we have before...

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I believe the statement about DT being a 2x boost in power and speed is from Devil May Cry 1, not exactly only Alastor's DT, and we saw, in Visions of V, Vergil's memories from Dante against Nelo Angelo and he had Rebellion with him, so it's possible that Capcom retconned Dante not using Rebellion in 1, meaning that the 2x can also be used for the regular DT

if they retconned the alastor thing then we can't use that multiplier for his own dt, we are back to square one

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Rebellion being there doesn't nuke Alastor out of existence, it only means Dante also had Rebellion in Mallet Island. Alastor is in many other DMC stuff like Vol 2 and CD Drama

Also, afaik the statement isn't exclusive to Alastor, but I don't remember perfectly

 

[Mister6ame6]

It's comes from this scans

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Then yeah, it's not only about Alastor, but about DT in general

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

So DT is a boost form that doubles his power and speed huh? That’s nice at least.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Then yeah, it's not only about Alastor, but about DT in general

"you must have alastor or ifrit equiped" tells me it is dependent on them, gladly the rest of the series shows he has his own dt and only dmc3/1 are the ones dependent on the equiped DA, proof of this is that he can't dt with FE or Sparda so... :v

 

[EFÍTÉ]

The guide refers to both alastor and ifrit, by that isnt related to rebellion, someone said something about game data not being usable.
Isnt the 2x from the guide literally game data ?

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Yeah......game data...thats why I feel his amp should be unspecified.
Besides don't Alastor and Ifreet provide different stat amps in gameplay??....Alastor for speed and Ifreet for power??.....

 

[EFÍTÉ]

Alastor passively gives the user more speed by lore, Ifrit give some stuff i dont remember right now.
But i can see why 2x being used since is the only one we got.

Wouldnt be better defining how much Quicksilver slows and used on Vergil ? I remember Vergil on DT on quicksilver being normal speed or really closer into being normal speed (base speed basically, but i can be wrong).

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Yeah I think this Quicksilver comparison was done previous days before universal DMC.....
Thats nice proposition too.....
But Quick Heart amulet kinda contradicts that....since its DT+Heart=10x.....while if we use Quicksilver comparison then the speed would be ridiculously high....definitely beyond 10x

 

[EFÍTÉ]

the amulet gives 10x speed alone, just check the op.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Nah...Dante-Kun convinced me otherwise......it even heavily implies DT+Heart amps 10 times over normal....normal in this case being I think the human form not default DT......though I am open to change of heart....

 

[EFÍTÉ]

someone also did a calc for quicksilver WAY BACK, i believe would be interresting to actually know how much quicksilver slows time.

Again, the speed amulet amps your DT speed by 10x, if we use dt = 2x, is basically 10 x 2 = 20, the affect only happens on DT state, check the op scan.

 

[Mister6ame6]

I remember a calc that was made that resulted in Quicksilver slowing down time 400 times

 

[Lightning_XXI]

DMC1 only had Alastor and Ifrit with a DT in gameplay, that's why it quotes them, it's similar to the Pain Empowerment statement (do you guys remember that ?) where it mentions gameplay, however it's as example for them explaining lore, obviously his Rebellion DT should be stronger than 2X, I would love to see a number for it, but until then, 2 + The Hearts is what we have. Also don't forget the statement being about DMC1 and Rebellion being retconned to also be there

And it isn't game data, the difference in gameplay doesn't reach 2X in DMC1 afaik, and even if it was, if said "game data" is quoted in a guide as also the Multiplier in Lore, then of course it can be used

Mr Efité:

"By equpping magical stones in his amulet, Dante gains certain powers and abilities while in Devil Trigger"

Every ability showed there is talking about what Hearts+DT can do, not them alone, you even have to access DT in order to use the Hearts' powers in game

 

[PimpDemon]

Shouldn't the 2X strength and 10x speed multiplier be stacked over the boost already provided by DT or do we replace the multiplier of DT with the amulet multipliers...cuz the few fight threads I have seen seem to imply a replacement??

Ehh i dont know

 

[PimpDemon]

im late to the party but we never used the offecence heart at x10 because no one knew what multiplier it was lol :'v but yeah, i agree

now we need to find the multiplier for dt ;_;

You didn't know what the multiplier was even though it is in the same guide as the 10 times thing thats strange

 

[Mister6ame6]

The changes have being applied here, so this thread is finished.