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Stardust Crusaders Speed Upgrade..
- Thread starter Austrian-Man-Meat
- Start date
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- #42
RavenSupreme said:
Sure thing
http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=21737
This link should be a calc which in turn has the part of the fight in question.
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@ravensupreme Start on Ch. 144: http://bato.to/reader#be4e660be925b302_2
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- Thread starter
- #44
They reached a conclusion to it in the comment section..Tivanenk said:
Also expierenced calc team members have proved its validity. So I have no idea what you're talking about. Also don't go off topic.
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from what i got the argument against is: during the fight he was not able to tag the HM which he obviously should have done if he was really that much faster.
the argument for the calc is: he performed FTL feats prior to the event (also after?) meaning the whole tag-along could be considered an outlier/pis for drama, and in the end he still got him
---
one has to keep in mind, while technically a lot faster, many characters tend to not automatically go for the winning blow or show their fastest/best available actions. is polnareff famous for being a fighter who instantly blitzes and defeats his opponents/lands a devastating blow (like luffy for example often does right at the beginning of an fight) or does his fights play out differently, with an increasing amount of energy exerted?
i see the math is correct and i acknowledge prior FTL feats and therefore see no problem with an upgrade. after all we do not disregard feats just because there are instances where they are not completely accurately presented in the storyline
the argument for the calc is: he performed FTL feats prior to the event (also after?) meaning the whole tag-along could be considered an outlier/pis for drama, and in the end he still got him
---
one has to keep in mind, while technically a lot faster, many characters tend to not automatically go for the winning blow or show their fastest/best available actions. is polnareff famous for being a fighter who instantly blitzes and defeats his opponents/lands a devastating blow (like luffy for example often does right at the beginning of an fight) or does his fights play out differently, with an increasing amount of energy exerted?
i see the math is correct and i acknowledge prior FTL feats and therefore see no problem with an upgrade. after all we do not disregard feats just because there are instances where they are not completely accurately presented in the storyline
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It's not off-topic because you're using this feat to validate this. The calc was maybe valid. The premise on which it's built on is false. There are many false assumptions here that shouldn't be taken seriously. I'm also a calcer on another site, so I at least know my shit.Austrian-Man-Meat said:
@RavenSupreme, just go read the 2 chapters I posted and you'll know the details of the fight.
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We would have to see the validity of the premise before accepting any calc. As we have seen Tivanenk raised question against it, we will now see if an admin finds this upgrade reasonable or not
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Oh god, here comes another tale of me having to see the idea of how fast stands like SC really are based on calcs again. Yeah. I'm having a really fun time now when i got on.
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- #49
Tivanenk is the only one in question against it. And after explaining my points Raven and TLT seem to find the premise and calc just fine.Faisal Shourov said:
He only doubts it due to Polnareff not catching him previously which can be written off as PIS.
But yeah waiting for an admin sounds good.
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- #51
Tivanenk said:
They knew the calc was fine.
They agreed with me in saying that what you're bringing up can be regarded as PIS.
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If Polnareff is that fast, why would they even worry about how many trajectories there are in this crowd of people ?
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- #53
You listening to what I am saying mate?Tivanenk said:
PIS.
I told you about it in deph and you refuse to listen.
Now I will leave this battle to an admin. I have said what I needed to and even managed to get atleast a few people on my side.
These are my last words on this thread.
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You chalk up everything to PIS. Heck, you chalk up an ENTIRE arc to PIS, though the only thing on your side is one scan with crappy proportions. Yeah, I think we know already that SC isn't 365c. All I need is logical common sense to demolish this argument without resorting to calcs.
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alright i have read through the chapters. very interesting, especially consideren the feat.
one thing i noted, polnareff actually did had doubts about how he would keep up with THM as stated here.
http://img.bato.to/comics/2015/03/04/j/read54f68e9bc2cc2/img000003.jpg
but he and the HM user as well note both that the weakness is the trajectory, to which polnareff was able to react already
http://img.bato.to/comics/2015/03/04/j/read54f68e9bc2cc2/img000006.jpg
as for the calc in question polnareff actually did know the trajectory of THM
that however is not an argument to dismiss the calc, since what polnareff did not knew was the exact time when THM will jump from the eye towars the coin. it had to happen after he kicked the eye with sand but if it was 0.1 second after, 0.001 second or something else was out of his knowledge. only the location is what he is aware of
http://img.bato.to/comics/2015/03/04/j/read54f68e9bc2cc2/img000008.jpg
meaning he (stardust) yet had to act and react to a LS object crossing a very short distance without knowing the exact time of start, leading to the calced result.
which is a common trope in anime/manga.
the argument, the stand should be able to tag THM if the speed difference were that massive easily can be explained through the lack of knowledge and experience polna/sd had with that stand (the hiding in the eye just happened once before and they had to come up with a solution on the getgo) and good old PIS which i would declare it.
is is a "regular" 365c speed? no
is it a "365c in short bursts?" yes it is. the reason to speak againt it are solely based on the lack of prior tagging which can be explained with the points i did
one thing i noted, polnareff actually did had doubts about how he would keep up with THM as stated here.
http://img.bato.to/comics/2015/03/04/j/read54f68e9bc2cc2/img000003.jpg
but he and the HM user as well note both that the weakness is the trajectory, to which polnareff was able to react already
http://img.bato.to/comics/2015/03/04/j/read54f68e9bc2cc2/img000006.jpg
as for the calc in question polnareff actually did know the trajectory of THM
that however is not an argument to dismiss the calc, since what polnareff did not knew was the exact time when THM will jump from the eye towars the coin. it had to happen after he kicked the eye with sand but if it was 0.1 second after, 0.001 second or something else was out of his knowledge. only the location is what he is aware of
http://img.bato.to/comics/2015/03/04/j/read54f68e9bc2cc2/img000008.jpg
meaning he (stardust) yet had to act and react to a LS object crossing a very short distance without knowing the exact time of start, leading to the calced result.
which is a common trope in anime/manga.
the argument, the stand should be able to tag THM if the speed difference were that massive easily can be explained through the lack of knowledge and experience polna/sd had with that stand (the hiding in the eye just happened once before and they had to come up with a solution on the getgo) and good old PIS which i would declare it.
is is a "regular" 365c speed? no
is it a "365c in short bursts?" yes it is. the reason to speak againt it are solely based on the lack of prior tagging which can be explained with the points i did
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- Burying my face inside my hands* Common sense is really lacking here. Can barely keep up with a LS stand, yet is MFTL in "short bursts".
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ok
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So i guess that everyone gave up at this point, eh? Really wish that happened. Mmmm...
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- Thread starter
- #59
I said all I needed to. It's up to an admin and them finding a side which they find more agreeable.CrossverseCrisis said:
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there is little to discuss any further. both sides have made their claims and points. anything else would end up in a complete derangement of the thread since it would just be repetive.
improving ones physical abilities like strenght and speed during a fight sequence despite having a hard time beforehand is nothing new in fictional verse. even more so when suddenly there is added knowledge about the opponent. the calculation is solid and accepted in the OBD as well as the majority of participing users here
improving ones physical abilities like strenght and speed during a fight sequence despite having a hard time beforehand is nothing new in fictional verse. even more so when suddenly there is added knowledge about the opponent. the calculation is solid and accepted in the OBD as well as the majority of participing users here
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So an admin, like me, needs to have a say in how we handle this, correct?
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- #62
CrossverseCrisis said:
Yeah. Just read through the thread + calc and determine if you find the upgrade reasonable or not. You can get more admins in on it if you wish.
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Hmmmm........okay, let me check through.
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This seems reasonable.
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Yes, after reading Raven's points, I think that the upgrade seems reasonable, as long as we insert into the profile that it is only MFTL in short bursts.
@Tivanenk Sorry. You made some good points, and VSB is probably never going to have the best reputation, given that it is a wiki open for regular users to edits, and we in the staff do not know enough about all the franchises listed here to fact-check everything, and there is a staggering amount of work to constantly take care of. However, all we can do is try to strive for accuracy as best we can.
@Tivanenk Sorry. You made some good points, and VSB is probably never going to have the best reputation, given that it is a wiki open for regular users to edits, and we in the staff do not know enough about all the franchises listed here to fact-check everything, and there is a staggering amount of work to constantly take care of. However, all we can do is try to strive for accuracy as best we can.
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- #66
@Antvasima
This sound good?
"Silver Chariot is Massively FTL in short bursts/reaction speeds. Due to it intercepting Hanged Man before it reached a coin which he was millemetres away from"
This sound good?
"Silver Chariot is Massively FTL in short bursts/reaction speeds. Due to it intercepting Hanged Man before it reached a coin which he was millemetres away from"
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- #68
Oops my bad. Aight gonna add it to Polnareff + profiles which scale.Antvasima said:
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Whait, can someone explain this millimetres thing?
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Uhh. Hanged Man travelling SOL was millimeters away from the coin. But before it could enter Silver Chariot intercepted him. Stopping it from entering.Gabriel 00 said:
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but didn't polnareff throwed sand at the civillian's eyes?
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Yes yes oh my god....Gabriel 00 said:
He threw sand in his eyes so Hanged Man would gtfo out there and go towards the coin. And when HM was millimeters away from it SC intercepted him and caught it.
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Hmm. Even though i'm very content with leaving SC and those who scale to or from him at FTL+ IMHO, i suppose MFTL wouldn't hurt to add. At least if it was put in terms of short bursts. If we add it as being their actual overall speed (as in just giving them MFTL speed), it just wouldn't really fit with me AT ALL.
So we could have them (again, those who scale from or to SC) as being normally FTL+, MFTL in short bursts. Then again, going from 365c to right about down to 76c seems strange. But then it's fiction so....it doesn't matter.
So we could have them (again, those who scale from or to SC) as being normally FTL+, MFTL in short bursts. Then again, going from 365c to right about down to 76c seems strange. But then it's fiction so....it doesn't matter.
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