Star Wars Revision: Godly Sith Lords (Legends)

[ItalianGuy1234]

Plagueis only killed Tenebrous when the guy was exhausted iirc and by simple scaling he should be far far superior to Darth Bane

 

[The_Everlasting]

Where in the absolute hell would people get the idea that Plagueis and Marka Ragnos scale to the Tier 4 stuff? They don't.

 

[Dziga]

But isn't Plagueis supposedly to have vastly surpassed his previous Rule of Two predecessors and be somewhat comparable to Darth Sidious? This might be my headcannon tho since I don't mess up with Star Wars lore in a long time.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Sidious only became 4-B after killing Plagueis.

 

[SaiyanSage]

Plagueis only killed Tenebrous when the guy was exhausted iirc and by simple scaling he should be far far superior to Darth Bane

Plagueis collapsed an entire cave ceiling on top of Tenebrous when they trying to escape a previous explosion when mining for Cortosis before he killed him by snapping his neck. I believe it's in the first pages of chapter of the Darth Plagueis novel.

 

[SaiyanSage]

Where in the absolute hell would people get the idea that Plagueis and Marka Ragnos scale to the Tier 4 stuff? They don't.

Plagueis and Sidious are a part of the Rule of Two scaling, which means that the Apprentice would have to scale to the Master. Meaning that if Sidious is at the 4-B tier, and the culmination of Bane's Order, then logically Plagueis should scale to 4-B as well since he taught Palpatine almost everything he knew. Even then Palpatine didn't kill Plagueis in a straight up fight, he got Plagueis drunk then killed him.

Marka Ragnos is harder to discern, hence why the proposed 'Star tier, possibly 4-B' is in mind since the scaling for the Ancient Sith kinda has to be backtracked from the Clone Wars era. Vitiate serves as the Sidious of the Old Republic era, and Ragnos recognized Vititate's power when he was 13 years old, and he also granted Vitiate his Sith title too.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Sidious only became that strong after killing Plagueis, and that was Pre-Nathema Vitiate.

 

[SaiyanSage]

Sidious only became that strong after killing Plagueis, and that was Pre-Nathema Vitiate.

Then why were you questioning about Plageuis being 4-B?

The point for Vitiate was the parallel between him and Sidious' uprising from Sith Masters who saw a powerful connection to the Dark side. A 13 year old Pureblood Sith being recognized for his immense power by the most powerful Sith Lord of that time... sounds a bit familiar lol.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Because people are talking about it?

I hope you're not serious with using that to make Marka Ragnos 4-B.

 

[SaiyanSage]

Because people are talking about it?
I hope you're not serious with using that to make Marka Ragnos 4-B.

There's no reason to suggest that Plagueis isn't 4-B, to do so would contradict the entire purpose of the entire Rule of Two in the first place.

More than likely Ragnos won't be offically 4-B, he'll likely be 'Star level, possibly 4-B' much in the same way as Tenebrous.

 

[ItalianGuy1234]

Honestly we should avoid upgrading these characters, it's too inconsistent

 

[SaiyanSage]

Honestly we should avoid upgrading these characters, it's too inconsistent

Plagueis is more consistent than Ragnos is imo. At least Plagueis has the foundation and scaling of the Rule of Two to refer back too, plus he was considered the greatest and most powerful Sith Lord before he encountered Palpatine (and we know where that goes lol).

For Ragnos, I'm more than happy to leave him at Star level.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Saiyan

Rule of Two is not always a proper indication of power.

Maul was Sidious' apprentice but got curb-stomped once Sidious decided to stop fooling around with lightsabers and just use the Force.

 

[Js250476]

Sidious In general broke the Rule of Two really

 

[Schnee_One]

@Saiyan

Rule of Two is not always a proper indication of power.

Maul was Sidious' apprentice but got curb-stomped once Sidious decided to stop fooling around with lightsabers and just use the Force.

Worth noting that both Savage and Maul wouldn't have gotten force tossed out the window had Sidious not started fooling around.

 

[SaiyanSage]

@Saiyan
Rule of Two is not always a proper indication of power.

Maul was Sidious' apprentice but got curb-stomped once Sidious decided to stop fooling around with lightsabers and just use the Force.

True, but Maul served more as an assassin than an actual Sith apprentice.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Saiyan

Then what about Vader, or Dooku? Both of them were blatantly inferior to Sidious.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I found a respect thread that has quotes/statements/feats on just how stupidly powerful Sidious is compared to his apprentices.

 

[Schnee_One]

Incredible Lord Cross, may I ask if we may see?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Yeah you guys kept talking about him as this weeks new fad i had to look up Sidious respect thread and by god, that old koot is OP.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/prof...-palpatinedarth-sidious-respect-thread/63101/

 

[SaiyanSage]

@Saiyan
Then what about Vader, or Dooku? Both of them were blatantly inferior to Sidious.

Dooku was only a Sith apprentice for 10 years, the rest of his life he was a Jedi. Compared to Sidious' thirty plus years when Plagueis found Palpatine on Naboo when the latter was 17.

Vader was a broken man, stated by Sidious himself. Vader's psychological problems hindered his ascension plus the severity of his burn marks and his suit provided additional problems too.

 

[SaiyanSage]

I found a respect thread that has quotes/statements/feats on just how stupidly powerful Sidious is compared to his apprentices.

Well, Sidious is the Dark side incarnate and an Avatar of the Dark side lol. I'd be surprised if any apprentice could actually beat him... unless that apprentice was a Skywalker 0-0.

 

[MasterOfArda]

Personally, I think only Sith Masters scale via the Rule of Two.

 

[SaiyanSage]

Personally, I think only Sith Masters scale via the Rule of Two.

Which is fair, since all Sith Apprentices under the Rule of Two are meant to become masters eventually otherwise all those years of training would be useless, and the Rule of Two would've died right after Zannah's demise.

In the case of Sidious, he only used Maul, Ventress, Dooku, and Savage for his own purposes. He tried to do the same thing his own master did and live forever.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This should be closed. This is getting derailed and people want to make everyone 4-B.

 

[MasterOfArda]

So it is off-topic?

 

[SaiyanSage]

This should be closed. This is getting derailed and people want to make everyone 4-B.

I understand the concerns, it's just only a few select people that should get the 4-B tier.

IMO:

Solar System:

Yoda

Sidious

Plagueis

Vitiate

Windu (aamped via Vaapad)

Hero of Tython

Revan

Arcann

Star tier:

Dooku

Windu (Normally)

Anakin Skywalker (by the time of ROTS/Darth Vader on Mustafar but the emotional and pyschological hinderences prevent him from his full power)

Vaylin (possibly)

Thexan (possibly)

Planet tier:

Darth Bane (based on his moon feat on Onderon)

Jedi Council members during the Prequel/Clone Wars era (including Obi-Wan Kenobi; scaling from Darth Bane as most, if not all, of the Council members should be around if not stronger than Bane himself)

Quinlan Vos

Asajj Ventress (possibly; she's been able to hold her own strongly against the combined might of Kenobi and Skywalker throughout the Clone Wars)

Multi-Continent tier:

Rahm Kota

Average Jedi Knight/Jedi Masters


Characters like Galen Marek/Starkiller are a bit tricker since Starkiller was trained by Vader for most of his life in The Force Unleashed, possibly he could scale to Kenobi or a Jedi Council member (holding his own against Shaak Ti briefly) making him 'Possibly Planet tier'.


All in all, I understand why you feel this getting derailed, but I'm just saying that there are a lot of characters in the Star Wars mythos and it does sorta get based on ABC scaling (which makes sense as both Jedi and Sith have very similar training methods and are trained in virtually the same way, so it's not too far to assume for groupings of certain Force weilders to get stuck together).

 

[Dziga]

Why is Obi-Wan lower than Anakain.

 

[Schnee_One]

Because Obi Wan gets destroyed by Anakin when in a calm mindset

 

[SaiyanSage]

Why is Obi-Wan lower than Anakain.

From my understanding, it's mainly ROTS that makes Anakin stronger than Obi-Wan but also during the duel on Mustafar (which I believe it's referenced on Obi-Wan Kenobi's profile) that Anakin was emotionally hindered which helped Kenobi in his duel (as well as knowing Skywalker's fighting style inside out).

 

[The_Everlasting]

Plagueis definitely isn't 4-B, Vaylin scales to Vitiate, Dooku is not Tier 4 period, and I'd rather settle the Bane stuff another day.

 

[SaiyanSage]

Plagueis definitely isn't 4-B, Vaylin scales to Vitiate, Dooku is not Tier 4 period, and I'd rather settle the Bane stuff another day.

Fair enough on Bane, but why shouldn't Plagueis scale to Sidious if Vaylin is gonna be scaled to Vitiate? Granted Vaylin is the daughter of Vitiate/Valkorian... but given Plagueis taught Palpatine almost everything he knew, shouldn't it be reasonable that Plagueis should be 4-B? Even in the Plagueis novel, Palpatine felt fear that his master came back to life briefly in the Muun's apartment, however briefly it was felt.

Also there is plenty of evidence to indicate that Plagueis could hold his own against Yoda... not sure if that helps in Plagueis' favor lol.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Vitiate was outright scared of Vaylin's power and sought to keep it contained, not to mention he stated that it would take him and the Hero of Tython to stop her and Arcann.

And again, Sidious only became 4-B by killing Plagueis.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Close this thread Ever...