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Star Wars and a Revision About The Force

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Sir_Ovens

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I'm going to make this clear from the beginning. I'm not the most well-informed or most up-to-date on Star Wars lore and canon, but I feel like this should at least be mentioned if nothing else.

Currently, our Force Sensitive character profiles have a singular flat AP value for both Canon and EU. I'm not here today to dispute their values, rather how we treat them. Now, most of my knowledge is limited to the movies and shows but based on what I've seen, giving Jedi and Sith flat AP values is a bit egregious considering the fact they get inconvenienced all the time by Bounty Hunters and straight-up fodder.

What I'm proposing might be controversial, but I think we should give all Force Sensitives Varies for their Attack Potency. Jedi like Mace Windu can go toe to toe with the likes of Darth Sidious, and yet we are to believe that his greatest rival is Boba Fett? Tyrannus has been bested by Pirates, Obi-Wan and Anakin have trouble fighting Cad Bane, hell, Ahsoka has trouble fighting Mando in Beskar armor.

The rationale behind this does not stop there, multiple times throughout The Clone Wars characters have made remarks about some areas having a stronger connection to The Force than others. In one of those places, Anakin singlehandedly subdued the Daughter and the Son. Mind you, in doing so he also performed a blatantly 4-A feat. Outlier? Maybe. But consider that Yoda was also only able to contact Qui-Gon fully after traveling to a planet where the connection to The Force was stronger than average. This isn't an AP feat, sure. But the Jedi amplify their AP using The Force this way, so it would not be out of the question that a location with a stronger connection to it would grant greater strength.

What this would change would be Jedi scaling to Bounty Hunter level characters normally, in a neutral environment. They would only be at their strongest showings at their peak.

For example, Obi-Wan would be 9-B, Varies between 9-A to High 7-C with Force Amplification.

Personally, I have no idea how this would affect stronger members like Windu and Sidious. However, I do believe that Sidious is so strong with The Force, he would be amplified by it almost always. Unless you want to count in the times he was almost killed by a Bounty Hunter or assaulted by a Clone. Windu I guess would only be Sidious level with Vaapad since it's basically Attack Absorption and Reflection.

I also do not have any idea how this would affect EU since I'm not savvy with it. So overall, this would probably only affect Canon unless someone knowledgeable on EU can tell me otherwise.

That is all.​
 
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I’m not very knowledgeable on canon at all, but the idea of Force users having Varies tiers is solid and should eventually apply to the EU as well.

Also I’d like to note that Anakin restraining The Son and The Daughter was more-or-less his full potential being drawn out, rather really than being amped.
 
I mean like, this assumes that every time they perform a high level feat, that area just for some reason has a strong connection to the force.

There's generally a massive disonance between different types of media in star wars, the movies and the clone wars don't have them do anything past Tier 9 but oops some random comic has Erza moving a giant meteor to the side and that's 7-C

Made even worse by the EU

Heck, I remember there being an interview with George Lucas where he was asked about Tarkovsky's Clone Wars... like, it's called a Micro Series but I dunno how to feel about that term, either way, you know what I'm talking about, where he goes on to say that if the Jedi were really as powerful as they were portrayed there, they wouldn't need to have the clone wars because you have stuff like Mace Windu soloing an entire force of Droids, and I vaguely remember Anakin doing the same?

Either way, this is a solution, but I'm not sure I can get behind it
 
Seems like a way to just let all sorts of outliers fly by lol
I get the rational but like, wouldn't the better thing be to just scale physicals and force amped physicals as seprate since that could explain the supposed disparity here, at least I assume Force Users aren't channeling the Force 24/7 at max power y'know?
 
That's what we already do, though

Like they always focus their powers in the force into their Lightsabers unless they're unarmed, considering that the crystals inside of them have a strong affinity with the force, and just focusing into their bodies, sure, has a result, but not nearly as effective.
 
I mean like, this assumes that every time they perform a high level feat, that area just for some reason has a strong connection to the force.
Well, I assume it’d be different depending on the character.

Like with Nihilus, his High 6-A feat was extremely casual (damn near passive tbh), so if he had a Varies tier, High 6-A would be the lower-end of his AP, as opposed to the higher-end.
 
But all of them adhere to the same principle, which inofitself I'm questioning a bit
 
Thing is, we forget that dueling is a huge part of Jedi and Sith culture. They wouldn't have to hone refined close quarters combat skills if it was always a test of might.

That's why Jedi struggle with the likes of Grievous, who is just a better duelist overall.
 
Power in the force is definitely a factor, Star Wars just has skill take more precedence

Which is why Rey focusing on the force in the force awakens allows her to fight better... somehow.

Sequel Trilogy's dumb but we have to live with it's canonicity
 
Power in the force is definitely a factor, Star Wars just has skill take more precedence

Which is why Rey focusing on the force in the force awakens allows her to fight better... somehow.

Sequel Trilogy's dumb but we have to live with it's canonicity
Opening yourself to the Force and acting on instinct has been a thing since the very first movie. It's how Luke could make a one-in-a-million shot without a targeting computer to destroy the Death Star.

"Trust in the Force" is a common phrase in the franchise for a reason.
 
There's a difference between enhancing the accuracy of a single shot and assuring it lands by being one with the universe and spontaneously gaining vastly more combat skill to the point of defeating someone actually trained with a lightsaber despite you living your entire life without ever even being in contact with one
 
yes guys every piece of star wars media before the sequels is perfectly coherent and excellently written can we please focus about the topic at hand
 
I mean like, this assumes that every time they perform a high level feat, that area just for some reason has a strong connection to the force.

There's generally a massive disonance between different types of media in star wars, the movies and the clone wars don't have them do anything past Tier 9 but oops some random comic has Erza moving a giant meteor to the side and that's 7-C
By recalced it to Tier 8 I believe which in fairness is consistent with the other Tier 8 feats

That said I definitely think our SW profiles need a look (especially our EU stuff) but IDK if this is a good way to do it
 
I'm open to alternate ideas.

In truth, I only thought of this because Star Wars is very consistent about regular bozos being able to beat trained Jedi even though they're supposedly leagues greater than them in AP.
 
I mean this might be controversial but
Why not just not scale them to their Force Powers

Scale them based off what we see them do objectively with their physicals (Tons of feats in that range) and we just give them an aidditional tier for their Force powers (Maybe Wall Level, City Block with Force Powers)?

We see low tiers perform wall feats regularly and this could be consistent

I definitely think Anakin's Mortis amp should be noted on the profile (I believe this is planned)
 
I mean this might be controversial but
Why not just not scale them to their Force Powers
I dunno about canon, but I think you could make a fairly good argument for this when it comes to Mandalorians in the EU. After all, they did have a four-year long war the Jedi and Jango and Boba consistently fought with Jedi.
 
I'd say it's fairly consistent for both

We regularly see Jedi struggle with far less then what their Force Powers achieve and the intent is there from highers up that they aren't overwhelmingly stronger physically

I definitely have opinions on this tho but I'd save them for a separate thread
 
So do we treat Grievous' feat as outlier?
 
Him tanking cannon fire that gave him his High 7-C rating.
 
So do we treat Grievous' feat as outlier?
I mean if a particularly advanced cyborg in this universe can take that kind of hit we have to wonder if Jedi being threatened by normal people with tech is that crazy
 
There's a difference between enhancing the accuracy of a single shot and assuring it lands by being one with the universe and spontaneously gaining vastly more combat skill to the point of defeating someone actually trained with a lightsaber despite you living your entire life without ever even being in contact with one

Even though that one person was: A) not trying to actively kill her; B) wounded in the shoulder; C) had a heavy wound in his side. Rise of Skywalker showed that a healthy Ben Solo could overwhelm Rey in an even fight (even the fight against Snoke's Guards showed Ben doing better against them).

As for Rey wielding a lightsaber, she had trained herself to use a quarterstaff in her life as a scavenger, and I've heard it mentioned that the use of quarterstaffs and two-handed swords are based on similar methods.
 
Well, I assume it’d be different depending on the character.

Like with Nihilus, his High 6-A feat was extremely casual (damn near passive tbh), so if he had a Varies tier, High 6-A would be the lower-end of his AP, as opposed to the higher-end.
Tbh Nihilus is a whole thing himself considering his main reason for High 6-A is based on his Force Drain and not Telekinesis or something
 
Is Star Wars not similar to Marvel/DC in that being a huge and long franchise with thousands of writers leads to so many inconsistent scales of power?
 
It is but I definitely feel we’re ignoring what is actually consistent here (especially FTL Legends)
 
I take it people don't really like this solution but there is also no alternative.

So should we just leave the profiles as is?
 
My suggestion or yours?
I definitely think we could have a wider revision on this but I know big revisions for the Canon and potentially Legends stuff are on the way
 
Mine.

Would you happen to know who's working on these revisions?
 
From my Memory of the Movies and Shows, the Variable Power Levels certainly seems like the intent, most of the time it’s due to loss of focus

I mean every person from my memory that was killed in Order 66 was killed by a surprise or sneak attack even if they seemed to be using the force in some way

then again, I guess the same argument could be made to have bullet tier Goku since Ki has the same moments, but I feel Canon Star Wars has it brought up in the plot more often

Legends isn’t my Forte though
 
Unlike Dragon Ball, the utility of The Force isn't something that comes innately for everyone. Unless your name is Sidious, you usually need a stronger connection to The Force and more concentration to perform stronger feats.
 
Unlike Dragon Ball, the utility of The Force isn't something that comes innately for everyone. Unless your name is Sidious, you usually need a stronger connection to The Force and more concentration to perform stronger feats.
Yeah I agree, I mean isn’t the reason Yoda and Sidious move at all because there constantly amped by the Force?
 
Ye, which is why I'm taking the High 7-C feat into consideration.

To my knowledge, the 7-C Ezra feat required concentration, which is fine. But the High 7-C chassis should be an outlier if Grievous doesn't consistently tank attacks like that usually.
 
Again tho if it's the one I think you mean it's been recalced as being 8-B which would be the next rating for it

But yeah I agree the Grevious thing should be an outlier (especially with my idea of physicals/=/ Force Powers)
 
There definitely needs to be an overhaul for the profiles, to be blunt it's pretty ridiculous to scale every character to planet lvl because of one character who did an alleged planet lvl feat one time and was killed in that sane comic by a non force sensitive wielding a vibro blade.

It seems higher end force feats are characters "breaking" theit limits ala dbz, allowing them to do insane things.

I feel for "modern" era characters a good benchmark would be to look at Starkiller/Galen Marek and for ancients Nihilus, these 2 are pretty high tier in their respective eras and can be a good gap that seperates the plebs to the truly monstrous characters such as Palpatine.
 
Bump.

We really need to do something about Star Wars as a whole. Perhaps a Discord servers so we can properly discuss this?
 
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