Standarizing criteria for Top Navigation Templates

[Dereck03]

If all this fuss is about me deleting those 3 templates, I can easily restore them and add them back to their respective profiles if that solves things.

 

[Bobsican]

As I've said before, if concerns are navigation convenience, a compromise can be done where the Article Navigation Templates for these cases just link to the Disambiguation page for cases outside their IP and the like.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Why would you need to do that if you can just link to the pages directly?

 

[Bobsican]

Why would you need to do that if you can just link to the pages directly?

The first part fixes a rising issue of disambiguation pages becoming redundant with Article List Templates, while also raising professionalism on the site, namely by upgrading organization over mixing up stuff, after all, an user usually would want to see pages over other works related to the same owners of the franchise and stuff, rather than "fair-use" parodies or alternate public domain interpretations in-between. We could still link to the disambiguation page in the template if anything.

Okay.

However, I am not at all fond of the idea of, for example, cramming the Marvel, Record of Ragnarok, and mythological versions of Thor into a single navigation template, and the same goes for Siddharta Gautama and other religious figures, so I personally think that your original draft was a better option.

We also already have disambiguation pages for visitors who are interested in different versions of characters from different verses.

These kinds of reasons, and the majority of the staff have also agreed to them, to go against this would require to rewrite the already-accepted standards to begin with.

 

[Antvasima]

Krukov:

Well, to use an example, we would need to keep the templates for Thor the Marvel Comics character, and its derivatives, and Thor the original mythological character, separate, and also mess up the overall current structure of our wiki, as what you are suggesting is handled by our disambiguation pages already, so I strongly disagree with what you suggest. My apologies.

Also, Starter Pack changed his mind to agree with me and Bobsican as far as I recall.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I mean, I'm entitled to my opinion. I kinda think that it'd be better to remove disambiguation pages rather than article templates.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, of course you are entitled to your opinion, but given that the majority of our staff here disagree with it, and what you suggest would require a major structural change in our wiki, I do not think that what you suggest will be applied.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

So is deleting article templates so I don't see the difference

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Given that we're no longer using them, should I not bother monitoring the creation of new ones?

 

[Antvasima]

So is deleting article templates so I don't see the difference

No, we have previously strictly handled variations of the same intellectual properties within navigation templates, whereas the wider implications of a specific name or title are handled via disambiguation pages. We willsimply remove a few recently added templates that break this structure and risk to set a bad precedent. That is all.

 

[Antvasima]

Given that we're no longer using them, should I not bother monitoring the creation of new ones?

Your help is obviously still very appreciated. We simply need to stick to our general preexisting standards, rather than mix things up too much. That is all.

 

[Damage3245]

Perhaps in some cases we can have a template at the top - where the Navbox isn't appropriate to be used - that links to the Disambiguation page of the character?

"This article is for the character from _____. For other similarly named characters, see this page."

For example.

This would aid in navigation without having to have a navbox for characters who are too different from each other like various versions of Thor.

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe, but I would prefer if we get an example regarding what it would look like, and wouldn't it require a specially modified/customised template for every single character page that uses it rather than just copy-pasting {{Thor (Marvel Comics)}} or somesuch into all of them?

 

[Damage3245]

Technically the template would be the same, there'd just be a section in it to add the name of the series and disambiguation page.

So the template would be:

{{SimilarName|Street Fighter|Rose}}

And it would generate:

This article is about Rose (Street Fighter) from the Street Fighter verse. For other pages with the same name, see: Rose.

It'd be customized, but very simple in what goes in it.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I personally do not mind, but we would have to provide instructions for exactly how and when to use such a template in our new "Standard Format for Article List Templates" page.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Your help is obviously still very appreciated. We simply need to stick to our general preexisting standards, rather than mix things up too much. That is all.

So? Is that a yes or a no?

 

[Antvasima]

It means that I still appreciate your help with making corrections in inaccurate structures for new page navigation templates, along with partially locking them, but it is obviously voluntary work for you. You do not have to do it if you do not want to.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I personally do not mind, but we would have to provide instructions for exactly how and when to use such a template in our new "Standard Format for Article List Templates" page.

@Damage3245 @Bobsican

 

[Damage3245]

Feeling sick today; activity will be low. Will investigate this template option soon.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you, but the instructions seem out of place in our editing rules page. Wouldn't it be better if we move them to a new "Standard Format for Article List Templates" page instead?

If we also get format instructions (rather than only regulations) to add to such a page to begin with, sure.

Also...

 

[Antvasima]

Feeling sick today; activity will be low. Will investigate this template option soon.

Okay. No problem. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Bobsican]

Uh... bump.

 

[Damage3245]

Right... I do remember there was a template I was going to investigate that would replace the top navigation template for characters who just share the same name without being directly connected.

I'll experiment with that and see if I can show something in a sandbox soon.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the replies. It can probably be added then. Would one of you be willing to handle it?

Done.

Thank you, but the instructions seem out of place in our editing rules page. Wouldn't it be better if we move them to a new "Standard Format for Article List Templates" page instead?

If we also get format instructions (rather than only regulations) to add to such a page to begin with, sure.

That seems like a good idea. Is somebody here willing to write a draft for it?

@Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus @LordGriffin1000 @Qawsedf234 @Mr._Bambu @Starter_Pack @Colonel_Krukov @Damage3245 @Mariogoods @DemonGodMitchAubin

Would you be willing to help us with writing our new standard instructions page for navigation templates please?

 

[Antvasima]

Right... I do remember there was a template I was going to investigate that would replace the top navigation template for characters who just share the same name without being directly connected.

I'll experiment with that and see if I can show something in a sandbox soon.

Thank you for helping out. We mainly need a new instruction page though.

Also, aren't our disambiguation pages sufficient for what you have in mind?

 

[Damage3245]

Thank you for helping out. We mainly need a new instruction page though.

Also, aren't our disambiguation pages sufficient for what you have in mind?

It doesn't replace the disambiguation pages; it links to them and makes them easier to find.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I am not sure if I understand exactly what you have in mind, but you can show an example later.

Also, we still need a standard instruction page for how to properly format our different types of navigation templates.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus @LordGriffin1000 @Qawsedf234 @Mr._Bambu @Starter_Pack @Colonel_Krukov @Damage3245 @Mariogoods @DemonGodMitchAubin

Would you be willing to help us with writing our new standard instructions page for navigation templates please?

My hands are tied up and I have to go to work today, but what is the current topic/proposal here?

 

[Antvasima]

We mainly need an official explanation page for how to write the code for our navigation templates.

Some members also want us to create templates for characters with the same names but that are otherwise not connected to each other, but I personally think that our disambiguation pages handle that job considerably better and that it would be irrelevant, incoherent, and spammy to create navigation templates for every single version of Thor in all of media, for example.

 

[Bobsican]

I think it was already agreed on to remove top navigation templates that were a glorified disambiguation page (in simple terms), in fact we already have the standards done, all that's left to do is create some standards for their formatting.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That sounds good then. I also think that they would easily turn far too messy.

We still need an official explanation page for our navigation templates though.

 

[Damage3245]

Some members also want us to create templates for characters with the same names but that are otherwise not connected to each other, but I personally think that our disambiguation pages handle that job considerably better and that it would be irrelevant, incoherent, and spammy to create navigation templates for every single version of Thor in all of media, for example.

Just in case I was unclear, you wouldn't be making several spammy templates. It's one template called the "SimilarNames" template, and it would work like putting this at the top of Haku's page:

{{SimilarName|[[Naruto (Verse)|Naruto]]|[[Haku]]}}

And that would give you this at the top:

Spoiler: Image

A direct link to the disambiguation page where every other character named Haku is listed.

This same thing can apply to all characters named Cthulhu that aren't part of the Lovecraft Mythos, same for all versions of Thor, etc. All you'd need to do is put the verse link and the link to the disambiguation page in the template. Two fields of data.

 

[Bobsican]

I'd avoid using the term "verse" as it's too informal in this context TBH, "series" or "franchise" may be better terms here.

 

[Damage3245]

I'd avoid using the term "verse" as it's too informal in this context TBH, "series" or "franchise" may be better terms here.

You may be right, but "verse" is part of our official terminology at this point on the wiki. We use it elsewhere.

 

[Bobsican]

I'm not a fan of that either, but I guess that'd be for a separate revision either way.

 

[Antvasima]

Just in case I was unclear, you wouldn't be making several spammy templates. It's one template called the "SimilarNames" template, and it would work like putting this at the top of Haku's page:



And that would give you this at the top:

Spoiler: Image

A direct link to the disambiguation page where every other character named Haku is listed.

This same thing can apply to all characters named Cthulhu that aren't part of the Lovecraft Mythos, same for all versions of Thor, etc. All you'd need to do is put the verse link and the link to the disambiguation page in the template. Two fields of data.

Okay. Thank you. That is likely not a problem then.

However, wouldn't it still be unnecessary? @Mariogoods has done a great continuous work of creating disambiguation pages for the basic fundamental search terms, such as "Thor", so wouldn't they be easy to find anyway?

I am currently uncertain/ambivalent regarding your suggestion mind you.

 

[Antvasima]

I'd avoid using the term "verse" as it's too informal in this context TBH, "series" or "franchise" may be better terms here.

You may be right, but "verse" is part of our official terminology at this point on the wiki. We use it elsewhere.

I'm not a fan of that either, but I guess that'd be for a separate revision either way.

I think that I called them "Fictions" or "Fictional Settings" in our wiki navigation bar.

 

[Antvasima]

After checking, it seems like I was a bit inconsistent in that regard:

 

[Antvasima]

I updated our wiki navigation bar a bit:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation?type=revision&diff=7744508&oldid=7674294

I hope that it is better this way.

 

[Mariogoods]

Okay. Thank you. That is likely not a problem then.

However, wouldn't it still be unnecessary? @Mariogoods has done a great continuous work of creating disambiguation pages for the basic fundamental search terms, such as "Thor", so wouldn't they be easy to find anyway?

I am currently uncertain/ambivalent regarding your suggestion mind you.

Just in case I was unclear, you wouldn't be making several spammy templates. It's one template called the "SimilarNames" template, and it would work like putting this at the top of Haku's page:



And that would give you this at the top:

Spoiler: Image

A direct link to the disambiguation page where every other character named Haku is listed.

This same thing can apply to all characters named Cthulhu that aren't part of the Lovecraft Mythos, same for all versions of Thor, etc. All you'd need to do is put the verse link and the link to the disambiguation page in the template. Two fields of data.

I'm neutral towards Damage's proposal.