Stain vs Kabal

[Bruhtelho]

Fear Manip won't really do much I feel if its inconsistent tbh

Anyway gonna lean on Kabal for this as he has better ranged options (tens of metres vs several) and is more than able to keep up with the guy. Anyway Stain's blades aren't gonna be as good as Kabal's cause he's got a pair of hookswords which are more versatile and a better LS (Class K vs Class 5 is a pretty steep gap from the looks of things) and Kabal can just breathe out a cloud of gas and melt Stain's arms off which is more useful than drawing a blade on your opponent's skin imo

EDIT: Quick question, you can still breathe after Stain's paralyzes you right? If so can't Kabal still just breathe at him then?

btw its not fear manip anymore, it was replaced with Social Influencing
anyways
what exactly are Kabel's ranged options? it only seems to be his energy blast moves which Stain can endure with his amazing Pain Tolerance being able to survive a beating from 3 of Class 1-A's top students and can still keep standing even after having his lungs punctured by his fractured ribs.
Stain is incredibly skilled in combat being that he was once a student at UA but dropped out cause of how everyone was only doing it because of the money after that he was capable of overpowering and killing 17 known Pro Heroes and crippled 23 others to the point of being unable to make a full recovery, he's bloodlust is so high it even causes the likes of Endeavor who at the time was the #2 Pro Hero to take a step back and freeze in place.
i'm super confused by Kabel's Gas most Kabel gameplay i've seen shows it doing nothing like melting arms off or anything of the sorts, i'd like to see actual footage of it doing that OR a statement either way the gas cloud doesn't go very far and only in front of kabel from what i've seen so if Stain see's one of his Blades get's melted he knows that he can't get close to the clouds so he just starts using his throwing knifes to overwhelm Kabel and Stain gets the jump on him, cut him, lick his blood and then stab him before he creates one,
Stain's fighting style relies on misdirection, aggression, prediction and use of the environment he is given in order to get up close to his target, so since the fight is in Central Park, New York City he can use Tree's, rocks, etc to get the jump on kabel and lick his blood which he has multiple ways of doing like his throwing knifes, Toe-spiked Boots, Folding Knives, or Daggers, so Stain also has plenty of versatility

still going on Stain with this via greater AP, Durability, Pain Tolerance allows him to endure about anything, greater Stamina, and it seems intelligence

 

[Stillwinston]

I mean the reason why Kabal's breath isn't instantly lethal in gameplay is just that, like how Sub Zero doesn't AZ shatter someone off the first thing he does because it wouldn't make for a great fighting game (Unless you count Bushido Blade and kudos me if anyone ever played that)

So I'll assume Kabal can still breathe despite being paralyzed, its been said the making people scared thing is inconsistent. That's a pretty big LS edge as well I assume and Kabal's not just gonna stand there when he can just swat the blades out the way with his hook swords and the rest of Stain's weapons are pretty straightfoward so its nothing he's not already dealt with. He can harass with buzzsaws and eye balls and there's folks in MK that fight like Stain does and plus Kabal can teleport also lol

Pain tolerance might help but realllly doubt that's gonna be effective if your arms get melted unless Stain pulls a monty python black knight on us here lol, anyway its late at night so I gotta sign off for now cya

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Actually Kabal has the stats advantage, scaling to Jax's 5 tons since he got his strength boosted twice the original amount (2.5 tons)

 

[Oleggator]

Actually Kabal has the stats advantage, scaling to Jax's 5 tons since he got his strength boosted twice the original amount (2.5 tons)

Question, where's stated that Jax become twice stronger?

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

It's linked in his own profile, but I'll leave it here for more convenience.

 

[Oleggator]

Thanks.
Though when I found high 8C feats, as far as my eyes can tell, they're happened after Jax arm upgrade. If my eyes didn't lied to me wouldn't it mean that Jax with roboarms is just scalable to that feats?

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Yes but that would require a CRT to change. Unfortunately the MK cast is in the process of getting downgraded below that tier, but since that's not happening yet, we'll just stick to the current ratings.

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Bump

 

[Stillwinston]

When was that CRT last updated?

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

When was that CRT last updated?

There's one going on right now but I don't want to derail the thread with that discussion, you can check it out here.

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Bump

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Bump

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Bump

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Bump

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Bump

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Bump

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Bump

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Bump

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

All stain needs is one attack to draw blood out so he slays.

 

[Abysswalker2126]

That’s grace

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Isn't grace period achieved after 7 votes? Or did I miss something

 

[Oleggator]

That’s grace

No, there must be 2 more votes for Stain for Grace.

 

[Oleggator]

Given, Stain Blood hax, I think that Stain takes it more than not.
So I think I'll give it to Stain too

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Just remembered this is revenant Kabal and according to MK11 Aftermath, revenant innards and whatnot are rotten and lifeless like a corpse. They still bleed, but how does Stain react to blood from that kind of body?

 

[Oleggator]

Just remembered this is revenant Kabal and according to MK11 Aftermath, revenant innards and whatnot are rotten and lifeless like a corpse. They still bleed, but how does Stain react to blood from that kind of body?

well, the thing I'm gonna say next is likely just game mechanics. But Scarlet can use her blood manipulation on revenant. So I think more likely revenant's body would react to Stain's quirk same as on live body.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

well, the thing I'm gonna say next is likely just game mechanics. But Scarlet can use her blood manipulation on revenant. So I think more likely revenant's body would react to Stain's quirk same as on live body.

We don't use game mechanics unless they somehow apply to the story as well. IIRC both of them never met in canon, plus Skarlet's blood magic works different from Stain's quirk because she doesn't have anything similar to his ability.

 

[Abysswalker2126]

No, there must be 2 more votes for Stain for Grace.

No seven votes total

 

[Oleggator]

No seven votes total

actually 8 votes total.
However, Grace is happening when character seven votes is for one character

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Bump

 

[Flashlight237]

Yeah, it's seven votes for one side unless if they're 2 or less votes apart. In any case, I agree with those who went with Stain in this case. I remember seeing him in action during the brief MHA binge I had. Once he gets a taste of someone's blood, his victim's instantly paralyzed.

Before you ask, corpses, which is what revenants are, are kinda weird. Judging by the color of his arms, it looked as if Kabal just entered putrefaction, so blood can still be found in his body.

 

[Oleggator]

and now that's grace

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I'm not saying that Kabal doesn't have blood. I'm aware that he's done for if he gets nicked, but I argued that Kabal has options to avoid that.

I meant that he could disarm the knives he's currently equipped with by snatching them with the hooked end of his swords. The other blades that Stain has isn't a problem until he takes them off their sheath.

Kabal has been fighting for 50+ years already with his experience in the hook sword fighting style and several other martial arts including capoeira, plus he has fought on par with other skilled fighters as well. His lifting strength would also help in disarming Stain or even clashing against a powerful attack.

Kabal can double his range by linking the swords together, creating a makeshift whip out of his hook swords. The gas may not affect stuff like metal, but I only mentioned it as a threat to Stain himself rather than his weapons. Plus he could dodge the gas if Kabal uses it to breathe on him but won't be dodging it if Kabal emits it around himself to create a small cloud, forcing Stain to stay away from him (assuming he knows what the gas does)

I mentioned here that Kabal can pretty much disarm most of Stain's bladed weapons to prevent him from drawing blood. He's not aware of Stain's quirk but him disarming people is very in-character. Without any of his longer blades, Kabal has a good range advantage with his swords. The spikes on Stain's suit aren't really threats to him once he's disarmed.

He also has the AP advantage so Stain's techniques with his quirk isn't a guaranteed victory button. I'm not convinced about Stain winning just because he has a quirk that paralyzes people. He relies on physical actions to activate it, and Kabal is pretty superior in physical stats. If someone can tell me how Stain does well in CQC, then he should have a good chance of using his quirk otherwise he's not drawing any blood.

 

[Flashlight237]

He also has the AP advantage

That itself is debatable. Going off the lower end (5.06 tons as you've suggested), it wouldn't really take all that much upscaling for Stain, who is superior to 5% Deku (4.79 tons) to get the edge over Kabal AP-wise. On the higher end (6.84 tons), Kabal might. I can somewhat agree on Kabal having an AP advantage on average (5.95 tons), but I don't believe that AP advantage is exactly the game-breaking kind in that regard (not compared to high-end Kabal anyway).

I am somewhat convinced to switch to Kabal, though. I remember Stain being more of an ambusher.

 

[Bruhtelho]

If someone can tell me how Stain does well in CQC, then he should have a good chance of using his quirk otherwise he's not drawing any blood.

this is his entire fight with Todoroki, Iida, and Deku

Stain has been able to deal with close and long range opponents through a mix of misdirection, aggression, prediction and use of the environment he is given in order to get up close to his target or at the very least draw even the slightest amount of blood to activate his Quirk, in the video he simply grazed Deku and that was enough blood for him to activate his quirk, Stain also was able to murder 17 known Pro Heroes and crippled 23 others to the point of being unable to make a full recovery, he was able to battle and heavily injure Ingenium, a popular and powerful Pro Hero without much difficulty, Ingenium should be more skilled and experienced then his brother Iida whos whole quirk relies on getting close with speed and kicking the opponent
so Stain should be able to hold his own against Kable as he fought CQC people plenty of times mainly Deku and Iida and could overwhelm Todoroki whos whole quirk relies on range and AOE plus his Immense Endurance means he can still keep fighting after whatever kable throws at him

He also has the AP advantage,

Stain Stated that he could have killed Todoroki, Iisa, and Deku if they were alone easily so he should upscale from the 4.79 Tons of TNT done by Deku
so it should be pretty even

 

[Oleggator]

A little question.
What happens with speed if it's equalized? Like they're equal in speed at all or there can be some difference?

 

[Bruhtelho]

A little question.
What happens with speed if it's equalized? Like they're equal in speed at all or there can be some difference?

Kable on his profile has this "Subsonic with Supersonic+ reactions and combat speed" his regular speed is Subsonic with Supersonic reactions
but if we're saying Kable is Supersonic+ then he's Mach 2.7975378893119 and Stain is far faster then 5% Deku, Todoroki, and Iida, Deku is Mach 1.98 and Stain upscales from that which is why he's Supersonic+
so Speed should be pretty even as well

 

[Oleggator]

Nonono.
I meant the question is what happens with speed in rule: "speed equalized".
Does it equalizing running, reaction, combat speed? Or it works specifically?
If first answer then also minus argument that Kabal would stole Stain's Arsenal via equal speed as stated in this rule of battle I guess.
(And I bit don't understand the justification for Kabal's class K LS).

 

[Bruhtelho]

Nonono.
I meant the question is what happens with speed in rule: "speed equalized".
Does it equalizing running, reaction, combat speed? Or it works specifically?
If first answer then also minus argument that Kabal would stole Stain's Arsenal via equal speed as stated in this rule of battle I guess.
(And I bit don't understand the justification for Kabal's class K LS).

ohhhh sorry
the rule "speed equalized" is basically everything speed based is equalized I think, I could be forgetting since I remember a discussion about "speed equalized"

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

If first answer then also minus argument that Kabal would stole Stain's Arsenal via equal speed as stated in this rule of battle I guess.
(And I bit don't understand the justification for Kabal's class K LS).

I'm not sure what you mean here, but I'm going to try to understand this. I assume you mean that I argued that Kabal would steal his weapons via speed? That's not what I meant, I just said that Kabal would be able to disarm him of his blades via snatching or breaking them with his hook swords. He can even trying doing that by prying it off his hands with his hook swords and superior LS.

this is his entire fight with Todoroki, Iida, and Deku

Stain has been able to deal with close and long range opponents through a mix of misdirection, aggression, prediction and use of the environment he is given in order to get up close to his target or at the very least draw even the slightest amount of blood to activate his Quirk, in the video he simply grazed Deku and that was enough blood for him to activate his quirk, Stain also was able to murder 17 known Pro Heroes and crippled 23 others to the point of being unable to make a full recovery, he was able to battle and heavily injure Ingenium, a popular and powerful Pro Hero without much difficulty, Ingenium should be more skilled and experienced then his brother Iida whos whole quirk relies on getting close with speed and kicking the opponent
so Stain should be able to hold his own against Kable as he fought CQC people plenty of times mainly Deku and Iida and could overwhelm Todoroki whos whole quirk relies on range and AOE plus his Immense Endurance means he can still keep fighting after whatever kable throws at him

Stuff like misdirection and using the environment to get an advantage is less effective with speed equal and SBA. I assume his misdirection is the part where he attempts to trick the trio into focusing him while another blade is about to hit one of them, but that requires sleight of hand and speed to make sure they don't see it coming. Also they're both fighting in a rather open space with less visual obstructions (trees<walls and buildings) so environmental advantage isn't that effective here. Trying to hide in trees or foliage could make his ambush noisier than in an urban environment and Central Park has a lot of wide and open spaces.

As for the AP and other durability stats, I guess they both have no problem cutting each other up. But Kabal does have this toxic gas ability that can intoxicate him if he gets a whiff of that, which is much likely given that he can cover himself in the gas.