Staff Only: About Locking Tier 2 profiles

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Why do you automatically assume we are trying to seem better than him? That's not the intent in the slightest. Matter of fact we aren't complaining, if anything, he's the one complaining and we are saying that he doesn't have to work so hard. It isn't complaining in the slightest. We aren't saying he's not helpful, we never once said that.

Him being helpful isn't even a topic. Yeah we could help him with these edits, and I personally will attempt to do so. But the simple fact of the matter and what we are trying to get through is that this suggestion will not cause his workload to increase catastrophically. Nor does him taking an extended break will not end in the wiki being utterly destroyed. This site is not a fragile house of cards and spending all day and night monitoring this place is not needed. We are not trying to be better than him, nothing we said even implies that and I would like it if you didn't make such accusations.

 

[Kepekley23]

I already left clear I didn't agree with Ant's view. The whole point of the post was to highlight how little we do compared to what we are supposed to. The wiki isn't a House of Cards, but it's not like we're at least trying to humor Ant by paying attention to edits outside of our favorite franchises. He has requested help on handling the workload, like everyone in this thread is telling him to, and the situation doesn't seem to have become considerably better.

Also, I wasn't talking about you. I think you, Reppuzan, most content moderators and a few other administrators who also posted in this thread are one of the few people in this site who actually do extensive work (in my view)

 

[Kaltias]

I'm extremely sorry if my tone was harsh, and that wasn't my intent. I wasn't trying to deny that he is extremely helpful for the wiki either.

What I was trying to say is, one person doing everything creates a vicious cycle.

Why? Because people tend to do what is needed. If the wiki works, the way it is, there is no incentive to change.

If someone does 90% of the job and four other people do 10%, the best solution is that the first guy starts by reducing his workload. That way the others will try to fill the gaps, because this way it's easier for them to notice how they can intervene.

 

[Antvasima]

Perhaps we should all try to calm down. My apologies if I have been too harsh in my tone. I am very tired, distracted, and stressed out at the moment, for various reasons.

 

[Kepekley23]

Don't think your tone was harsh. You actually tried to put it into perspective.

Anyway, if people legitimately try to stand up and help out, and keep that in their minds, which is what I desperately want to see happening, I'd be more than delighted to see Ant take a rest. It isn't good for him to get himself overworked.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, as I mentioned earlier, I think that a much better solution would be that I instruct the staff in how to use the page locking/unlocking script. I simply haven't found the time yet.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I personally agree with Reppuzan, there are a lot of Tier 2 profiles that often lead to controversy. And as Rep said, there's a lot of people who can't seem to distinguish the differences between 3-A and Low 2-C. Additionally, even if we were to remove the Tier 2 on the list of profiles that need to be locked, I'm positive the most of are Tier 2 profiles would still be locked given that much of them are controversial in nature. Controversial Tier 2's aren't limited to popular VS debating verses such as Dragon Ball, Marvel, or DC.

Almost every video game character, especially Nintendo, JRPG, Platformer, and Retro game characters are among the most frequently downplayed characters. I've seen way too many threads of people trying to downgrade Final Fantasy, Castlevania, Kingdom Hearts, ect. There's also many people questioning the tier of Rosalina, and the Pokemon god tiers. And even as of late, people are trying to downgrade Shulk. So anyway, I still agree that at least most of our Tier 2 profiles should be locked.

 

[Andytrenom]

I'm neutral here. On one hand, I don't think we should lock away such a large group of profiles from normal users, since the help they could provide in cleaning up such profiles would be extremely beneficial given the sheer number of tier 2 profiles that would be otherwise left for only a select few to handle.

If it were only the most controversial of profiles remaining locked, then I could support allowing no one but content mods and admins to edit them. But every single profile above High 3-A being locked away from regular users is something that I find unnecessary tbh.

That being said, I trust Antvasima and Reppuzan to know, more than me, the exact problems that would come from unlocking these profiles. So I am neutral (like i said already) although leaning more towards agreeing with the OP.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well yeah, I won't deny that the OP and others do have very good points. And understandably, Antvasima does have too heavy of a workload, so it's a good idea to cut down his workload by splitting a fraction of it among other staff members and possibly other users. It's a good thing that we now have a few more content mods and another Admin as of yesterday.

However, it's still a good idea to leave most of the Tier 2 profiles locked. At least all the Tier 2 characters I'm familiar seem to potentially lead to controversy. Example, Dragon Ball, Marvel, DC, and Saint Seiya. But then we got so many Nintendo and JRPG characters who consistently are Tier 6 to Tier 2, but there's a whole crowd of offsite debaters who simply can't accept any non Hack and Slash video game character being higher than Tier 8.

So, I'm also rather neutral and open minded, but leaning towards still remaining that it's preferable to leave most Tier 2 profiles locked.

 

[Andytrenom]

I disagree with the proposal.

People have a LOT of trouble distinguishing ..... I think our current standards are fine.

These edits you came across, did they involve nerfing tier-2 characters to high 3-A, 3-A or a yet lower tier?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Andy

3-A to Low 2-C mostly.

 

[Antvasima]

Would others be fine with not making this change if I write an instruction thread regarding how to install and use my page-locking/unlocking script instead?

 

[Andytrenom]

@Repp So they made 3-A characters low 2-C, correct? If so, then that means a lot these edits were done to tier 3 profiles, in which case, keeping tier-2 profile locked won't really help much.

 

[Antvasima]

Again, the higher the statistics the higher the temptation to start messing with them. I find it much better to simply use the mass-locking/unlocking script to allow regular members to edit when necessary.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Perhaphs being able to utilize the patrol script, in order to minimize the amoung of edits Ant has to make, might be a good idea.

Although I'm kinda neutral on this subject.

 

[Andytrenom]

What does that script do exactly?

 

[Antvasima]

You input a list of the names of the profiles that you need to unlock into a text box, select the manner in which you want to lock or unlock them, and activate it.

 

[Antvasima]

I ask the members who need pages temporarily unlocked to write the lists themselves.

 

[Kepekley23]

Discussion Moderators can't use it, if I recall correctly.

 

[Antvasima]

That is correct. Administrators and content moderators can use it.

 

[Crzer07]

This is not about allowing pleb muggle members to edit "controversial" pages as much as it is about determining the demarcation boundary on the power scale between what's deemed "too controversial" and what's not. And in this case, it seems like anything above Tier 3 is where it's been decided which is the center of contention. But all that is meaningless when there are already lots of "ordinarily tiered" characters that are subjectively/arbitrarily considered controversial, and pre-emptively been restricted. (probably based on the metric of fame, popularity or iconography, to which even their status as such can also be debatable that we haven't begun to discuss to determine if most should be allowed to touch them based on that metric)

Not saying that's a problem in itself, but what's really disconcerting (even cringey might I say) is when they are underdeveloped, badly written or even wrong and nobody knows jack about them and yet still nobody is allowed to touch it as if it is some final master piece of work. Granted there could (or should) be some exception for those.

Now having said that, if we are to have exceptionally strong characters to be off limits, then in contrast exceptionally weak characters could be just as controversial and should also be off limits as well. I'd say the cut off point for bordering on "controversy" is anything below Tier 10 but then again that could be just as arbitrary and subjective or am I being too cautious, conservative or paranoid?

Perhaps not as anything that is not 3-dimensional (our home dimension) is quite "controversial".

 

[Antvasima]

This is staff only, but we generally lock pages that have attracted vandalism or blatantly risk to attract it. However, experienced regular members such as yourself can just request to have them temporarily unlocked for cleanup purposes.