SSGSS Goku vs Hyper Sonic

[SomebodyData]

He have an absoluty invulnerability, superior to super sonic invulnerability`s

............

 

[Pikachu942]

Can't he still drown, though? It was that or get crushed.

Surprisingly, no, he can't drown even though Super Sonic can, and also can't get knocked out of the form by say, Big Arm like Super Sonic, implying his invulnerability is far higher. However, he can still get crushed.

 

[MrAppleSalad]

He have an absoluty invulnerability, superior to super sonic invulnerability`s

Can't he still drown, though? It was that or get crushed.

in the old games, yes, but that was when he was young and didnt know how to use the power well, now he is able to tank mediorites and plazma shots with nothing but being knocked back due to the kenetic energy.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

in the old games, yes, but that was when he was young and didnt know how to use the power well, now he is able to tank mediorites and plazma shots with nothing but being knocked back due to the kenetic energy.

Isn't that literally the only game he was in? I don't think he'd have mastered the Super Emeralds any more, since then.

 

[MrAppleSalad]

in the old games, yes, but that was when he was young and didnt know how to use the power well, now he is able to tank mediorites and plazma shots with nothing but being knocked back due to the kenetic energy.

Isn't that literally the only game he was in? I don't think he'd have mastered the Super Emeralds any more, since then.

i ment super sonic

 

[Candy_Vegetto]

super sonic is not invalnrable, but goku has absolutly no way of doing enough damage to even hurt him as the only time we have seen him be damaged was by a big bang sized explosion that compleatly destroyed a zone (dimention) and he was only minorly hurt but was easly able to stand back up and keep going. so for the point of this fight, he is compleatly invalnrable.

how big is this said zone?

its not a explosion that, say, destroys a forest or something, its just like... well see for yourself http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...-super_sonic_vs_hyper_knuckles_showdown_8.jpg

This is Archie Sonic, not Game Version Sonic.
I have no qualms admitting that Archie Sonic absolutely stomps Goku right now with his durability, but we're discussing Game Version Sonic based on the previous feats used. Game Version Sonic can't compete with Goku, while Archie is OP enough to defeat Pre Crisis Supes.

as i stated in a previous comment, we have to use the archee comics, as super sonic, let alone hyper sonic, has never bin streched to there limits and so we have absolutly no way of knowing how powerfull. we have no way of seeing how much more powerfull hyper is then super and as far as we know hyper could be less powerfull then super in the games. my point is, we dont have any way to say wether he is more or less powerfull then goku.

No, you don't. Archie Sonic and Game Version Sonic are two seperate types of character: you can't just use one to determine feats for another just because the other hasn't had it explained. That would be identical to using DBS Goku feats to justify SSJ4 Goku being able to accomplish something else.
As it stands, this means Game Version Sonic does not have the feats to compete with Goku. He can survive Chaos Control hax and speedblitz due to superior durability, stalemating Sonic until he is worn down.

okay, fine, how a bout this, we use the same multipliers as we did with archie but use base game sonic because he has feats that we can use, sound fair? for refrence, super sonic is 10 times the power of base, and hyper is 7 times the power of super. Starting with duribility: Base sonic has survived re-entry from low earth orbit (though was slowed down just before he hit the ground). he fell from cloud hight and was back up in around 3 seconds with virtually no damage, he is imune to mind control, he held onto a rocket ship that went from low altitude to orbit, he seems to have some kind of minor healing factor (debateable), and last but CERTAINLY not least, Sonic, in base form, somehow managed to survive falling into a black hole, well past the event horison. Okay, now, strength: base form sonic has bin shown to be able to throw a rock with such acuresy and power that he blew up a mech from quite a large distance, he managed to rip a combat robot in half with his bare hands, and he can run trough multible robots with relitive ease. Speed: he is able to break the sound barier (sonic CD) and (when using the light speed dash) can reach light speed, and it has bin stated that he can go lightspeed if he wanted to but this has never bin shown in action.

None of this justifies him being able to take on a casual universe buster like SSGSS Goku, not even the black hole. The only area he can beat Goku in is speed, but his overall offensive capabilities against Goku are laughable to say the least.

Simply put, without Chaos Control, Sonic tries to speedblitz Goku and fails due to incredible lack of offensive capabilites to even scratch Goku's durability. Only chance Sonic has is Chaos Control Time Manipulation, which fails because Goku is starting this fight in SSGSS with teleportation and speed abilities that can get him out of every situation Sonic puts him in.

This is, of course, not factoring in Goku's combat speeds being able to compete with Sonic's speed pretty closely. Taking that into account, Goku lands one punch and the game is over. Sonic's durability compared to a universe buster causes him to become disoriented from the first blow and gives Goku the ability to speedblitz in retaliation due to superior fighting technique in martial arts (Sonic has no CQC counter to Goku's extensive knowledge over hand to hand combat). Sonic gets demolished, power scaling doesn't put him in a high enough league to counter DBS buffs.

Sum up: Sonic has to try and play a keep away game against a fighter who can sleep through his entire offensive abilities even in Hyper form. Goku catches him, it's over: domination in martial arts with enough speed and power to overwhelm Sonic means game over for the hedgehog. Time manipulation hacks are the closest chance he has, but Sonic doesn't have the sustainability to perform any hack that could kill a fighter with durability like Goku.

 

[Promestein]

Also.

3-dimensional characters are not allowed to use feats of surviving a Black Hole's singularity, as mass within a black hole is literally infinite and it's thus considered an outlier when it comes to durability, at least according to this page. So.

 

[MrAppleSalad]

super sonic is not invalnrable, but goku has absolutly no way of doing enough damage to even hurt him as the only time we have seen him be damaged was by a big bang sized explosion that compleatly destroyed a zone (dimention) and he was only minorly hurt but was easly able to stand back up and keep going. so for the point of this fight, he is compleatly invalnrable.

how big is this said zone?

its not a explosion that, say, destroys a forest or something, its just like... well see for yourself http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...-super_sonic_vs_hyper_knuckles_showdown_8.jpg

This is Archie Sonic, not Game Version Sonic.
I have no qualms admitting that Archie Sonic absolutely stomps Goku right now with his durability, but we're discussing Game Version Sonic based on the previous feats used. Game Version Sonic can't compete with Goku, while Archie is OP enough to defeat Pre Crisis Supes.

as i stated in a previous comment, we have to use the archee comics, as super sonic, let alone hyper sonic, has never bin streched to there limits and so we have absolutly no way of knowing how powerfull. we have no way of seeing how much more powerfull hyper is then super and as far as we know hyper could be less powerfull then super in the games. my point is, we dont have any way to say wether he is more or less powerfull then goku.

No, you don't. Archie Sonic and Game Version Sonic are two seperate types of character: you can't just use one to determine feats for another just because the other hasn't had it explained. That would be identical to using DBS Goku feats to justify SSJ4 Goku being able to accomplish something else.
As it stands, this means Game Version Sonic does not have the feats to compete with Goku. He can survive Chaos Control hax and speedblitz due to superior durability, stalemating Sonic until he is worn down.

okay, fine, how a bout this, we use the same multipliers as we did with archie but use base game sonic because he has feats that we can use, sound fair? for refrence, super sonic is 10 times the power of base, and hyper is 7 times the power of super. Starting with duribility: Base sonic has survived re-entry from low earth orbit (though was slowed down just before he hit the ground). he fell from cloud hight and was back up in around 3 seconds with virtually no damage, he is imune to mind control, he held onto a rocket ship that went from low altitude to orbit, he seems to have some kind of minor healing factor (debateable), and last but CERTAINLY not least, Sonic, in base form, somehow managed to survive falling into a black hole, well past the event horison. Okay, now, strength: base form sonic has bin shown to be able to throw a rock with such acuresy and power that he blew up a mech from quite a large distance, he managed to rip a combat robot in half with his bare hands, and he can run trough multible robots with relitive ease. Speed: he is able to break the sound barier (sonic CD) and (when using the light speed dash) can reach light speed, and it has bin stated that he can go lightspeed if he wanted to but this has never bin shown in action.

None of this justifies him being able to take on a casual universe buster like SSGSS Goku, not even the black hole. The only area he can beat Goku in is speed, but his overall offensive capabilities against Goku are laughable to say the least.
Simply put, without Chaos Control, Sonic tries to speedblitz Goku and fails due to incredible lack of offensive capabilites to even scratch Goku's durability. Only chance Sonic has is Chaos Control Time Manipulation, which fails because Goku is starting this fight in SSGSS with teleportation and speed abilities that can get him out of every situation Sonic puts him in.

This is, of course, not factoring in Goku's combat speeds being able to compete with Sonic's speed pretty closely. Taking that into account, Goku lands one punch and the game is over. Sonic's durability compared to a universe buster causes him to become disoriented from the first blow and gives Goku the ability to speedblitz in retaliation due to superior fighting technique in martial arts (Sonic has no CQC counter to Goku's extensive knowledge over hand to hand combat). Sonic gets demolished, power scaling doesn't put him in a high enough league to counter DBS buffs.

Sum up: Sonic has to try and play a keep away game against a fighter who can sleep through his entire offensive abilities even in Hyper form. Goku catches him, it's over: domination in martial arts with enough speed and power to overwhelm Sonic means game over for the hedgehog. Time manipulation hacks are the closest chance he has, but Sonic doesn't have the sustainability to perform any hack that could kill a fighter with durability like Goku.

in the games we have never seen super sonic take damage, so he is invalnrable. the only time we have seen him take damage in in the old games when he was young and un experienced and in the archee comics witch we arnt using. i cant find any refrences for what it would take to survive a black hole because it is so out of the wrelm of descusion that none has said anything a bout it. multiply that power by 70 and there's hyper sonic's hyper's durability, if we dont say hes invalnrable. what it realy comes down to is, like death battle said, not if goky can kill sonic, but if goku can survive hyper sonic (around 2 minutes). I dont know the answer to that question, because you're right, sonic cant deel out as much punishment as goku.

 

[Candy_Vegetto]

in the games we have never seen super sonic take damage, so he is invalnrable. the only time we have seen him take damage in in the old games when he was young and un experienced and in the archee comics witch we arnt using. i cant find any refrences for what it would take to survive a black hole because it is so out of the wrelm of descusion that none has said anything a bout it. multiply that power by 70 and there's hyper sonic's hyper's durability, if we dont say hes invalnrable. what it realy comes down to is, like death battle said, not if goky can kill sonic, but if goku can survive hyper sonic (around 2 minutes). I dont know the answer to that question, because you're right, sonic cant deel out as much punishment as goku.

Wrong, Super Sonic takes damage from falling, can be crushed, and can drown. In some cases, bosses even deal damage through the transformation. Hyper Sonic is just a buffed version, meaning the invulnerable statement is a complete hyperbole. None of the Sonic villains are even remotely close to universe busters in straight raw power, only reality warpers. Nothing in the Sonic universe gives Sonic the likeliness of competing with a casual universe buster, which I think you are seriously underestimating here. 7 times a transformation that can be defeated by enemies who aren't even close to planet busters and fall damage does not put a character even remotely close to the destructive power of a universe buster.

A black hole is considered to be infinite in terms of destructive power, so when it comes to durability arguments, it is discarded because it is an outlier. Sonic would first have to have infinite durability to even survive the black hole which we proved is a hyperbole by the damage he takes in game. Secondly, even if his durability was infinite, that would mean he is simply trapped inside the black hole because logically, his durability would have to be above infinity to escape it. Which is logically impossible. The only use for the feat is if it's being used directly, IE, you could counter with it if Goku was able to generate black holes to trap Sonic in.

It would be the same argument as me claiming Goku's strength is infinite because universes are actually infinite in size, regardless of statements and maps created by Toryiama.

Again, you're discreditting the massive difference here in power. Goku flat out stomps Sonic in any fashion without prep or knowledge of each other's abilities, something Death Battles seems to forget whenever they make their videos every now and again (regarding the Shadow vs Vegeta video). Sonic would have to use Chaos Control, and does not have the ability to sustain that kind of power to perform a time manipulation hack that could legitamitely defeat Goku. Goku can teleport and has extensive speed capabilities, meaning he would survive long enough against any situation Sonic puts him in to get out.


EDIT: Rephrased the Black Hole argument

 

[Unclechairman]

I'll just quote this for the people who say Super Sonic is completely invincible. Funny how I made this comment in this very thread and yet people are acting like it doesn't exist.

Unclechairman wrote:


"While Super Sonic is frequently touted as invulnerable to harm, he has in practice been harmed by opponents who are at his level of power; it just tends to get brushed over because the opponents Super Sonic has faced that can truly harm him can be counted on one hand. The only examples that come to my mind are the Egg Salamander (Sonic Rush; while he did not harm Super Sonic himself if I recall, he was able to harm Burning Blaze, an equal to Super Sonic, albeit only with a specific attack), Solaris (Sonic 2006; may or may not be countable in canon-only debates considering the game he came from), and Perfect Dark Gaia (Sonic Unleashed; Xbox 360 and PS3 versions only). All other opponents he has faced have been at best able to cause knockback, but not truly harm him, and can only defeat him by stalling him until he runs out of rings to sustain his Super state. I see no reason to believe Hyper Sonic would be any different; if he were to ever to face someone who is truly his equal, he may find he is not truly invulnerable at all."

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

^kindly remove the block text quotes above, they're hard to read

 

[Unclechairman]

Erm, okay then?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Uncle

I'm fairly certain he was talking to MrAppleSalad and Candy Vegetto, who were repeatedly quoting each other.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

@Uncle
I'm fairly certain he was talking to MrAppleSalad and Candy Vegetto, who were repeatedly quoting each other.

yeah those ones, i think Uncle misunderstood

 

[LightTheHedgehog73]

Hyper Sonic would won. In Super form he is invincible, so, in Hyper form he can't be scratched even by SSGSS Goku.