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SSGSS Goku vs Hyper Sonic
- Thread starter Byakuya_"Senbonzakura"_Kuchiki
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That 10% might be a lie as well, just as 100% was lie. Whis' comparison with tree and castle is accurate as there is nothing to bluff about. Don't take 10% seriously, that was a gag sceneUnclechairman said:
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Hes not actually "invincible", statements like that define hyperboleFkFany said:
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Invincibility is an actual ability iirc
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I really doubt invincibility applies to anybody below tier 2 since they're still 3D beings
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^That's a hyperbole
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And Perfect Cell is stated to be perfect.FkFany said:
Since you don't know what "hyperbole" means, here's a definition:
"exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally."
That applies to your argument.
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DB has no hax to counter invulnerability actually.Though goku would still be stronger he wouldnt win.
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By invulnernerability you mean like type 4 immortality? Yeah DB has nothing of that sort. They don't even have soul ripping/steal which is average hax in FT, Naruto and Bleach. DB is so much lacking in hax it's almost unbelievableCHILLVIBEZZ said:
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Nah its just immunity to physical attacks -http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/InvulnerabilityFaisal Shourov said:
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Like Juggernaut?
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Given that hes in the known users id say yes.Faisal Shourov said:
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Invincibility is a wrong word but invulnerability is fine. There are many characters who're immune to physical attacks. Juggeranaut is an example. He's not invincible however
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You two are missing the point here.FkFany said:
"Invulnerability" is an exaggerated claim: he is not shown tanking anything in that form that is similar to universe destruction level. Hell, the characters even take damage from certain bosses in the Super forms as well as wiping from fall damage, suffocation, or generally being crushed.
There is nothing "invincible" about the forms. It is just a tanky form that would still fall to universe busting level power.
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No invincibility and invulnerability are actually different abilities this is invincibility-http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Temporary_Invincibility
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Let's take a look at the limitations there:CHILLVIBEZZ said:
Number 2*: May still be susceptible to some forms of damage/death
Your argument is now invalid.
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Let's take a look at the limitations there:
Number 2*: May still be susceptible to some forms of damage/death
Your argument is now invalid.
Nah my argument was invulnerability which Goku can't counter given that all his attacks are physical nice try...
Number 2*: May still be susceptible to some forms of damage/death
Your argument is now invalid.
Nah my argument was invulnerability which Goku can't counter given that all his attacks are physical nice try...
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Nah my argument was invulnerability which Goku can't counter given that all his attacks are physical nice try...CHILLVIBEZZ said:
So you really believe the guy that relies heavily upon energy such as ki to enhance all of his abilities and attacks is complete conventional physical damage?
Regardless, you seem to continously dodge the fact that you're using a hyperbole to justify Sonic's durability along with the fact that you're still arguing based on a game mechanic. Fall damage is physical based, game mechanics = contradictions and failed logic.
In any case, your argument is invalid. Either Sonic's "invulnerability" is proven to be a lie because he can be crushed or die from fall damage, or you discard his game mechanic feats and he only has speed as an edge against Goku. Both ways, it's thrown out the window and Goku still wins.
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Let's take a look at the limitations there:
Number 2*: May still be susceptible to some forms of damage/death
Your argument is now invalid.
Nah my argument was invulnerability which Goku can't counter given that all his attacks are physical nice try...
So you really believe the guy that relies heavily upon energy such as ki to enhance all of his abilities and attacks is complete conventional physical damage?
Regardless, you seem to continously dodge the fact that you're using a hyperbole to justify Sonic's durability along with the fact that you're still arguing based on a game mechanic. Fall damage is physical based, game mechanics = contradictions and failed logic.
In any case, your argument is invalid. Either Sonic's "invulnerability" is proven to be a lie because he can be crushed or die from fall damage, or you discard his game mechanic feats and he only has speed as an edge against Goku. Both ways, it's thrown out the window and Goku still wins.
I'd like to see Super form Sonic getting crushed or falling ?
He's only invulnerable in his super form so no.Goku has no way of countering that.Even chakra from Naruto is both physical and spiritual energy that's not an argument.Unless you have evidence of a alive Goku being able to affect souls this is going nowhere.
Number 2*: May still be susceptible to some forms of damage/death
Your argument is now invalid.
Nah my argument was invulnerability which Goku can't counter given that all his attacks are physical nice try...
So you really believe the guy that relies heavily upon energy such as ki to enhance all of his abilities and attacks is complete conventional physical damage?
Regardless, you seem to continously dodge the fact that you're using a hyperbole to justify Sonic's durability along with the fact that you're still arguing based on a game mechanic. Fall damage is physical based, game mechanics = contradictions and failed logic.
In any case, your argument is invalid. Either Sonic's "invulnerability" is proven to be a lie because he can be crushed or die from fall damage, or you discard his game mechanic feats and he only has speed as an edge against Goku. Both ways, it's thrown out the window and Goku still wins.
I'd like to see Super form Sonic getting crushed or falling ?
He's only invulnerable in his super form so no.Goku has no way of countering that.Even chakra from Naruto is both physical and spiritual energy that's not an argument.Unless you have evidence of a alive Goku being able to affect souls this is going nowhere.
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Nah my argument was invulnerability which Goku can't counter given that all his attacks are physical nice try...CHILLVIBEZZ said:
So you really believe the guy that relies heavily upon energy such as ki to enhance all of his abilities and attacks is complete conventional physical damage?
Regardless, you seem to continously dodge the fact that you're using a hyperbole to justify Sonic's durability along with the fact that you're still arguing based on a game mechanic. Fall damage is physical based, game mechanics = contradictions and failed logic.
In any case, your argument is invalid. Either Sonic's "invulnerability" is proven to be a lie because he can be crushed or die from fall damage, or you discard his game mechanic feats and he only has speed as an edge against Goku. Both ways, it's thrown out the window and Goku still wins.
I'd like to see Super form Sonic getting crushed or falling ?
He's only invulnerable in his super form so no.Goku has no way of countering that.Even chakra from Naruto is both physical and spiritual energy that's not an argument.Unless you have evidence of a alive Goku being able to affect souls this is going nowhere.
http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Transformation
"Even with the transformation enabled, during gameplay the character can still die by falling in a bottomless pit, being crushed, drowning or if the timer expires. Also, in various games, the final boss is capable of damaging characters even when they are under a super transformation."
Your entire argument is a hyperbole, over exaggerating Sonic's durability because someone used an all encompassing word to describe the form. This argument fails because the Sonic universe is being compared to another, so it has to have feat comparisons for it to be a valid statement. Which it has nothing that compares to DBS.
Super and Hyper form are either susceptible to physical damage based on game mechanics, or they have no durability because they have no feats outside of the game that can contend with universe shattering DBZ power from SSGSS. Again, Goku wins no matter which route you choose to argue.
I agree that this argument is not going to go anywhere, simply because your defense is illogical and you're going to keep refusing that your point has been refuted simply because you can. You're just attempting to defend a hyperbole like the invincibility argument (which the form is regarded as being identical to Invincible, not Invulnerable btw) simply because you think it will hold up somehow even though it's common sense that it's not all encompassing.
It would be similar to saying that I win this argument because my logic is now perfect and infalliable. Does that make it true just because I said so? Of course not: I have to make logical defenses and prove my point for it to be a valid argument. Feats, proof, etc. have to be shown to defend a statement as encompassing as "Invincible".
You, on the other hand, are attempting to defend an "invincible power up" that hasn't tanked or can be power scaled up to multiple star level busting. Universe shattering power dominates that level of durability, meaning Goku casually stomps Sonic in the raw power department until proven otherwise.
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Lmao you think an actual ability known as invulnerability is a hyperbole because Goku can't counter it despite his superior strength?
Wow just wow....
And its temporary pay attention "if the timer expires"
So yes he's invulnerable to physical attacks in that form not our fault Goku lacks hax....
Wow just wow....
And its temporary pay attention "if the timer expires"
So yes he's invulnerable to physical attacks in that form not our fault Goku lacks hax....
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Also his invincibility is temporary as we'll -http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Temporary_Invincibility
Combination of both and you can't counter unless you have soul manipulation or other forms of hax.
Despite being multi Galaxy Goku can't beat an intangible being with brute strength same thing as it..
Both abilities are noted on his profile of you have anything against them and claim them to be hyperbole make a thread and let's see if you get anywhere.
As for this match Goku doesn't lose but he can't win given the circumstances either.
Combination of both and you can't counter unless you have soul manipulation or other forms of hax.
Despite being multi Galaxy Goku can't beat an intangible being with brute strength same thing as it..
Both abilities are noted on his profile of you have anything against them and claim them to be hyperbole make a thread and let's see if you get anywhere.
As for this match Goku doesn't lose but he can't win given the circumstances either.
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It is a hyperbole because you're making up Sonic's durability. The word invincible is used, but despite the FACT that you can still die to multiple different types of physical damage along with being damaged by bosses themselves, you're still claiming that it's impervious to any type of physical damage.CHILLVIBEZZ said:
Do you not see how contradictory your argument is? You are literally denying fact to continously make a false argument in favor of Sonic and have basically created a level of BS that allows any character to be invincible or invulnerable.
Perfect Cell called himself perfect, and Hercule couldn't even phase him with punches. By your standards, that makes him completely invulnerable to all physical damage as well because he labelled himself as perfect and infalliable. That's also a hyperbole, just like your claim to Sonic when the actual term of "Invulnerable" is never even associated with Sonic's Hyper form. I checked, never once is it stated by any other source that Sonic is "invulnerable" in his Super form. Only "Invincible", something you're also refusing to even provide a counter to because you know you don't have any proof to back up your nonsense claim.
I'll give you one more chance to come up with some new material that isn't hyperbole BS. If you continue to repeat your own illogical nonsense and keep making these ridiculous claims about Sonic's durability, then there won't be anything left to argue. It would then be clear that you're not looking to argue about this with rational thought, but instead, anger because you can't seem to admit when you're wrong.
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super sonic is not invalnrable, but goku has absolutly no way of doing enough damage to even hurt him as the only time we have seen him be damaged was by a big bang sized explosion that compleatly destroyed a zone (dimention) and he was only minorly hurt but was easly able to stand back up and keep going. so for the point of this fight, he is compleatly invalnrable.Candy Vegetto said:
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how big is this said zone?MrAppleSalad said:
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As Somebody asked, need to determine the size or provide direct information on the event so we can research it. Dimensions are variable in quantifiable size, along with no one really have a solid mechanic for true "dimension busting". At least, imo.MrAppleSalad said:
And it needs to be able to hold up against casual universe busting force, as Goku is technically capable of breaking the universe in three punches if he hits something that can tank the blow as a SSG.
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its not a explosion that, say, destroys a forest or something, its just like... well see for yourself http://static.comicvine.com/uploads...-super_sonic_vs_hyper_knuckles_showdown_8.jpgSomebodyStupid said:
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This is Archie Sonic, not Game Version Sonic.MrAppleSalad said:
I have no qualms admitting that Archie Sonic absolutely stomps Goku right now with his durability, but we're discussing Game Version Sonic based on the previous feats used. Game Version Sonic can't compete with Goku, while Archie is OP enough to defeat Pre Crisis Supes.
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as i stated in a previous comment, we have to use the archee comics, as super sonic, let alone hyper sonic, has never bin streched to there limits and so we have absolutly no way of knowing how powerfull. we have no way of seeing how much more powerfull hyper is then super and as far as we know hyper could be less powerfull then super in the games. my point is, we dont have any way to say wether he is more or less powerfull then goku.Candy Vegetto said:
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Sonic stomps with his hax in hyper form
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What hax does Hyper Sonic have? Other than Chaos Control, which he didn't have the one time he went Hyper.Benbenben101010 said:
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Wait! Is Hyper Sonic canon in the video games series? That actually got me wondering, even though he appeared in uh... Sonic 3, is it? By using the power of the Super Emeralds.
I just learned that the reason why Sonic doesn't want to go beyond Mach 1 (even though in recent games going faster than light at peak), he doesn't want to as it could disrupt the environment around him and doesn't want to cause some collateral damage (if he does, well... so much for dawning in blue fur for peace and making him even prickier than his signature quills), and if he goes too fast for extended periods of time, he gets disoriented or lose his sense of directions, thus colliding towards obstackles. But surely he has some accelerated perception.
I just learned that the reason why Sonic doesn't want to go beyond Mach 1 (even though in recent games going faster than light at peak), he doesn't want to as it could disrupt the environment around him and doesn't want to cause some collateral damage (if he does, well... so much for dawning in blue fur for peace and making him even prickier than his signature quills), and if he goes too fast for extended periods of time, he gets disoriented or lose his sense of directions, thus colliding towards obstackles. But surely he has some accelerated perception.
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No, you don't. Archie Sonic and Game Version Sonic are two seperate types of character: you can't just use one to determine feats for another just because the other hasn't had it explained. That would be identical to using DBS Goku feats to justify SSJ4 Goku being able to accomplish something else.MrAppleSalad said:
As it stands, this means Game Version Sonic does not have the feats to compete with Goku. He can survive Chaos Control hax and speedblitz due to superior durability, stalemating Sonic until he is worn down.
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He have an absoluty invulnerability, superior to super sonic invulnerability`sAzathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
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okay, fine, how a bout this, we use the same multipliers as we did with archie but use base game sonic because he has feats that we can use, sound fair? for refrence, super sonic is 10 times the power of base, and hyper is 7 times the power of super. Starting with duribility: Base sonic has survived re-entry from low earth orbit (though was slowed down just before he hit the ground). he fell from cloud hight and was back up in around 3 seconds with virtually no damage, he is imune to mind control, he held onto a rocket ship that went from low altitude to orbit, he seems to have some kind of minor healing factor (debateable), and last but CERTAINLY not least, Sonic, in base form, somehow managed to survive falling into a black hole, well past the event horison. Okay, now, strength: base form sonic has bin shown to be able to throw a rock with such acuresy and power that he blew up a mech from quite a large distance, he managed to rip a combat robot in half with his bare hands, and he can run trough multible robots with relitive ease. Speed: he is able to break the sound barier (sonic CD) and (when using the light speed dash) can reach light speed, and it has bin stated that he can go lightspeed if he wanted to but this has never bin shown in action.Candy Vegetto said:
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Can't he still drown, though? It was that or get crushed.Benbenben101010 said:
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