speed upgrades (DC extended universe)

[NHTkenshin2]

I do think this one is pretty simple (i hope)



In this scene, we see both the flash and superman viewing the entire justice league in almost frozen time.
Which gives them their “far higher” ratings on their speeds.
Considering WW for example, is comparable to pre-resurrection superman
Then the scaling for supes and the flash is like this

>>>Mach 6701.7

This is only a 1.31x difference from Sub-Relativistic.
Viewing someone as literally near frozen via speed should give them at least baseline Sub-Rel
I dont really understand why it wouldn't.

Spoiler: People who scale

Superman (likely Sub-Relativistic)

The flash (At least Sub-Relativistic)

Mother boxes (can grant wielders Sub-Relativistic speed)

 

[Dalesean027]

Following

 

[Propellus]

Aye, back to the Rel category, following

 

[Majinere566]

Isn't there a way to calculate viewing objects at slow motion?

 

[Propellus]

I'm pretty sure it's like this after looking at this

(2298709.65/ 0.013) *2298709.65 = 406,466,619,615,625 (FTL)

 

[Dalesean027]

I'm pretty sure it's like this after looking at this

(2298709.65/ 0.013) *2298709.65 = 406,466,619,615,625 (FTL)

They never statue light tho not remotely

Edit: you say like and not exactly like but yeah switching in another value would be calc stacking

 

[Aguywhodoesthings]

Also i'm pretty sure that's calc stacking

 

[Swerzye29038]

BTW, any character aside from full speed flash being SOL-FTL is narrative breaking. We’re explicitly told that only he can go that fast (and time travels when he does), so a calc that yields such results should probably be ignored, even if it wasn’t calc stacking.

 

[Dalesean027]

BTW, any character aside from full speed flash being SOL-FTL is narrative breaking. We’re explicitly told that only he can go that fast (and time travels when he does), so a calc that yields such results should probably be ignored, even if it wasn’t calc stacking.

This

 

[Hellbeast]

Isn't there a way to calculate viewing objects at slow motion?

Yeah but you'd need to be caareful to not use their direct speed because calc stacking comes into play. That said, you could prolly use average human reaction times and scale them that way? IDK

 

[Confluctor]

BTW, any character aside from full speed flash being SOL-FTL is narrative breaking. We’re explicitly told that only he can go that fast (and time travels when he does), so a calc that yields such results should probably be ignored, even if it wasn’t calc stacking.

Not really interested in DCEU shit, but that's where "death of author" comes in.

In a similar manner, DC comics says that someone going at SoL would break the universe and is impossible for most and whatnot, but we have dozens of said characters who have some of the highest mftl+ ratings in fiction. Flash, for example.

If in-verse rules like that don't make sense sometimes and the actual speed of characters contradicts this rule, we should go for calcs. It is more accurate.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Not really interested in DCEU shit, but that's where "death of author" comes in.

In a similar manner, DC comics says that someone going at SoL would break the universe and is impossible for most and whatnot, but we have dozens of said characters who have some of the highest mftl+ ratings in fiction. Flash, for example.

If in-verse rules like that don't make sense sometimes and the actual speed of characters contradicts this rule, we should go for calcs. It is more accurate.

It's calc stacking anyway so it's not like it matters tbh

Anyway, I dunno if we do upscaling for speed. The last time I asked, I was told we don't.

 

[Confluctor]

Probably, but I was just pointing out that we do calcs that contradict in verse statements always. It was a general thing

 

[NHTkenshin2]

It's calc stacking anyway so it's not like it matters tbh

Anyway, I dunno if we do upscaling for speed. The last time I asked, I was told we don't.

I asked that question a couple days ago and people told me it was fine.
Also i think thats where the 0.1c DB comes from so i do think its fine

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I asked that question a couple days ago and people told me it was fine.
Also i think thats where the 0.1c DB comes from so i do think its fine

I'll ask someone else then. Doesn't DB get it's numbers via multipliers?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

@DarkDragonMedeus , @KLOL506 , @Qawsedf234 mind taking a look at this?

 

[NHTkenshin2]

I'll ask someone else then. Doesn't DB get it's numbers via multipliers?

No, From what i understand it comes from goku being “faster then before"

 

[KLOL506]

AFAIK that's not close enough to justify the speed upscale.

We usually upscale stats on a case by case basis if the difference between the speed value and the next tier is 1.2x or less than that.

 

[Aguywhodoesthings]

Tbf the speed feat is pretty early into MoS right? And Superman grows in power throught the film or something so mayhaps he would be faster by the end aswell so the MHS+ peeps would already upscale from the value a bit

 

[Dalesean027]

AFAIK that's not close enough to justify the speed upscale.

We usually upscale stats on a case by case basis if the difference between the speed value and the next tier is 1.2x or less than that.

Tbf the speed feat is pretty early into MoS right? And Superman grows in power throught the film or something so mayhaps he would be faster by the end aswell so the MHS+ peeps would already upscale from the value a bit

I'm assuming this would be for justice league since he got a stat buff so it shouldn't be too much of a stretch

 

[Aguywhodoesthings]

I'm assuming this would be for justice league since he got a stat buff so it shouldn't be too much of a stretch

Yeah i'm pretty sure the justice league scale to Superman at the time of BvS

 

[Dalesean027]

Yeah i'm pretty sure the justice league scale to Superman at the time of BvS

Yes because of wonder woman, flash just scales by default since he's the fastest

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Tbf the speed feat is pretty early into MoS right? And Superman grows in power throught the film or something so mayhaps he would be faster by the end aswell so the MHS+ peeps would already upscale from the value a bit

Wait, then why dont we use the high end for this feat?

 

[Aguywhodoesthings]

Wait, then why dont we use the high end for this feat?

It uses a 60fps framerate to calculate the timeframe which doesn't match with the feat taking 5 seconds on the bar

 

[Qawsedf234]

Considering WW for example, is comparable to pre-resurrection superman

She's not comparable seemingly. Since Superman is seemingly implied to have been nerfed by Kryptonite the entire time.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

She's not comparable seemingly. Since Superman is seemingly implied to have been nerfed by Kryptonite the entire time.

He was far away from kryptonite at that time though?
She Also reacted to heat vision. Which should be as fast as superman, If not faster.

 

[Qawsedf234]

He was far away from kryptonite at that time though?

Well we know the following

• Superman was canonically nerfed when fighting Zod
• He was nerfed when fighting Doomsday and was injured by a nuclear weapon
• WW and Batman do not mention the Motherbox amping Superman, just restoring him

From the implications Superman was just not at peak power when battling against Zod or Doomsday. So scaling WW to him can be considered questionable when the one time they interacted with Superman at full power he utterly rolled her.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Well we know the following

• Superman was canonically nerfed when fighting Zod

The thing is, the novelization mentions him being fatigued.
An normal ordinary person can recover from exhaustion easily.

Not just that, him also getting stronger as he grows.

Which 18 months (gap between MoS and BvS)
After MoS took place, superman would be at his strongest in BvS.

• He was nerfed when fighting Doomsday and was injured by a nuclear weapon

I dont know if you are referring to a statement in some databook/novelization or something.

But superman can regenerate from injuries, so the injuries he got from his fight with kryptonite equipped batman shouldnt have effected his speed while fighting doomsday, because he was far away from the kryptonite at that time.

About the nuke thing, didn't he restore himself from the sun at that scene?
I think he shouldn't be slower then his pre BvS form

• WW and Batman do not mention the Motherbox amping Superman, just restoring him

From the implications Superman was just not at peak power when battling against Zod or Doomsday. So scaling WW to him can be considered questionable when the one time they interacted with Superman at full power he utterly rolled her.

So with the stuff given so far, i still think he was amped, whether that was an emotional amp or an amp from the mother boxes, viewing someone who is relative to your fastest attack in slow mo should make him faster then before.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The thing is, the novelization mentions him being fatigued.

It went beyond that

A toppling skyscraper clipped him on its way down, swatting him to Earth. He crashed into a deserted street a few blocks beyond the circle of destruction.

This can’t go on, he thought. The whole city is coming down on top of us.

He staggered to his feet, reeling. He had been going nonstop for hours now, first against the World Machine, then the singularity, and now Zod. He needed a moment to recharge.

But Zod gave him no respite. He hoisted a stretch limousine above his head and heaved it at Superman, who dodged the car with only nanoseconds to spare. It smashed into the foundations of a looming multi-level carport, and exploded on impact.

An normal ordinary person can recover from exhaustion easily.

You're suggestion is that after going 10 rounds in a boxing fight, the fighter after then running multiple miles to instantly get into another 10 round boxing fight should be able to recover rather easily.

Superman was going 100% non-stop for multiple hours with minimal downtime.

I think he shouldn't be slower then his pre BvS form

The issue here isn't that he's slower than his BvS form, but that there's a non-zero chance he was just nerfed in every one of his major fights. So there's just no scaling to be had really.

 

[Propellus]

They never statue light tho not remotely

Edit: you say like and not exactly like but yeah switching in another value would be calc stacking

I wasn't using the light value tho, I was going by Superman's base flight speed. But it isn't gonna be used anyways

 

[Dalesean027]

I wasn't using the light value tho, I was going by Superman's base flight speed. But it isn't gonna be used anyways

Yeah my edit was worded terribly but that's what I was correcting myself on me saying light

 

[Swerzye29038]

Inconsistent speed scaling within the comics is different from rules that are set in stone within live action interpretations. The movies follow one timeline with specific rules for speed, and the comics often times don't, with rules often being ignored entirely depending on who's writing what.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

It went beyond that


You're suggestion is that after going 10 rounds in a boxing fight, the fighter after then running multiple miles to instantly get into another 10 round boxing fight should be able to recover rather easily.

Superman was going 100% non-stop for multiple hours with minimal downtime.

I agree, i misread the statement.

tbh it still doesn't matter because superman would still be stronger and possibly faster in BvS, where the WW scaling comes from.

The issue here isn't that he's slower than his BvS form, but that there's a non-zero chance he was just nerfed in every one of his major fights. So there's just no scaling to be had really.

About him being nerfed, i think its unlikely, because the two times superman was weakened in BvS, he almost always went back to his base.


And still, i have no idea why a much more experienced weakened BvS superman should scale below beginning of MoS superman with the idea of him rapidly growing throughout the movie and becoming even stronger in BvS.

 

[Qawsedf234]

superman would still be stronger and possibly faster in BvS, where the WW scaling comes from.

Well the WW scaling comes from Doomsday fighting Superman.

But if Superman was never at peak condition then there's nothing really there for her to scale from.

 

[Hellbeast]

I'd mostly agree with Qaw. It's the one time we see Superman treated as relative to other characters in the setting and his Kryptonite poisoning and extended beatdown from Doomsday kinda put this in question for me. Especially with the implications from both Cuts of Justice League that Superman is vaguely > Steppenwolf long before his demise in BVS, and thus, his resurrection in JL

 

[Propellus]

I'd mostly agree with Qaw. It's the one time we see Superman treated as relative to other characters in the setting and his Kryptonite poisoning and extended beatdown from Doomsday kinda put this in question for me. Especially with the implications from both Cuts of Justice League that Superman is vaguely > Steppenwolf long before his demise in BVS, and thus, his resurrection in JL

Even then, I don't really think Superman got that slow when he got dozed by kryptonite gas that Batman sprayed on him.

 

[Hellbeast]

I mean for scaling purposes he did since we don't currently scale Bruce to Clark and the fact Diana and co can react to Supes in BVS and then getting blitzed in JL does imply the same

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Well the WW scaling comes from Doomsday fighting Superman.

But if Superman was never at peak condition then there's nothing really there for her to scale from.

Superman was never at his peak condition when he did the mach 6701 feat too

And again, i have given reasons why i think that he was not severely weakened (to the point of being slower then his inexperienced and weaker self)

his Kryptonite poisoning

Which he recovers from

 

[Hellbeast]

Which he recovers from

no he begins to recover from it, he's clearly still a fair bit weaker when Batman smashes him through pillars and when Doomsday wrecks him before getting supercharged by the nuke. Even with the argument of stellar recuperation the simple issue is that Supes has clearly shown that he can operate under less then peak conditions after being healed by sunlight (since he's drastically fatigued in MOS and is far more grievously wounded in BVS). We also have to recognise there is no concrete statement Superman grew stronger in JL at all and it's really an assumption more then anything else and is outright countered by both cuts clearly presenting Supes as being > Steppenwolf even before his death

 

[Hellbeast]

Currently we're arguing about whether the verse as a whole should even scale to Superman at this point