- 5,141
- 290
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Speed Upgrade for Doctor who?
- Thread starter AidenBrooks999
- Start date
- 2,443
- 316
Haven't checked the calc but this seems like a HUGE outlier since the Doctor is just a bit above ordinary humans ,unless there is some kind of equipment that enables him to have such a feat. ( i'm a bit behind with Doctor Who)
- 2,512
- 261
Can not find an obvious error in the calc, for closer checking I would need to watch the episode.
But either way, as KKapoios said, the result is completly unrealistic for the character. He also didn't use any specific device for that as far as the comments on the calc go, so this can really be disregarded based on that.
But either way, as KKapoios said, the result is completly unrealistic for the character. He also didn't use any specific device for that as far as the comments on the calc go, so this can really be disregarded based on that.
- 2,253
- 77
Was it not said in that same episode, that that's not how things went!? There were questionable actions in that storytelling.
I think he should have an FTL reaction speed, or at least Faster than sound. It IS what the video showed, and it's not like he ran like the flash or something. Since the Doctor has many devices that concentrate on time, maybe he used a time lock or something from his infinity-pockets. Not saying that he did, but I'm not over-reacting about his speed.
- 2,512
- 261
nah, if we would take the feat like it occured not as an outlier it would mean that the doctor could literally move his arm that fast, basically he would be capable to defend against bullets shot on him just by blocking them with something.
A device was also not mentioned and is much to handy to be part of his standard equip without ever being used. It is an outlier nothing else.
A device was also not mentioned and is much to handy to be part of his standard equip without ever being used. It is an outlier nothing else.
Ah. Well, there is some stuff against it, like why didn't he use this skill in the million other episodes where he could've used it, excluding plot devices. Now I'd see the feat as an outlier. Even though it has cold hard film evidence.
- 667
- 46
If you watch the Heaven Sent episode, from series 9, The Doctor has a Mind Palace, like Sherlock Holmes (BBC TV Show).
And his reactions with this are really badass.
He can calculate absurd things in fractions of seconds and react to it.
And his reactions with this are really badass.
He can calculate absurd things in fractions of seconds and react to it.
- 5,141
- 290
- Thread starter
- #10
I have no idea.
I also was suprised that the feat was on his profile.
I also was suprised that the feat was on his profile.
- 14,391
- 5,219
If I'm not mistaken, his FTL+ reactions were added in this thread: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/461794
- 125
- 3
As the scene suggests, I would say that the Doctor is at least capable of dodging bullets (or reacting fast enough to them to shoot them out of the air). Whether this is an upper limit to his reflexes/reaction time, I don't know. I would at least presume his reflexes are superior to a human's though.
- 125
- 3
Taking this which I wrote in another thread.
In the scene in question where the FTL+ calculation comes from (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CRNKAb8hsI), the Doctor was also seen dodging gunshots from the androids attacking him with "nanoseconds to live", according to Missy, so maybe the FTL+ thing could also extend to his body movements.
The question would probably be whether the "nanoseconds to live" thing only applies to just the moment where the Doctor teleported out of there and escaped, or to the entirety of the scene (including his dodging of the shots). If it's the latter, then maybe he does have FTL+ reaction speed after all (and an argument may be forwarded that he was running that fast at the time too). It does seem weird that only his arm is capable of FTL+ speed and not the rest of his body. Missy did phrase the "nanoseconds to live" part by saying the Doctor was "surrounded, outnumbered, outgunned" and that part definitely applies to the whole scene until the Doctor escaped. From what I've heard, the Doctor can also shoot bullets out of the air (which the thread claims comes from a novel called "Trading Futures"), so dodging them should be within his purview (which the scene itself reinforces).
In the scene in question where the FTL+ calculation comes from (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CRNKAb8hsI), the Doctor was also seen dodging gunshots from the androids attacking him with "nanoseconds to live", according to Missy, so maybe the FTL+ thing could also extend to his body movements.
The question would probably be whether the "nanoseconds to live" thing only applies to just the moment where the Doctor teleported out of there and escaped, or to the entirety of the scene (including his dodging of the shots). If it's the latter, then maybe he does have FTL+ reaction speed after all (and an argument may be forwarded that he was running that fast at the time too). It does seem weird that only his arm is capable of FTL+ speed and not the rest of his body. Missy did phrase the "nanoseconds to live" part by saying the Doctor was "surrounded, outnumbered, outgunned" and that part definitely applies to the whole scene until the Doctor escaped. From what I've heard, the Doctor can also shoot bullets out of the air (which the thread claims comes from a novel called "Trading Futures"), so dodging them should be within his purview (which the scene itself reinforces).
- 2,512
- 261
The Doctor isn't really dodging gunshots there. He is running and the androids keep missing. Though he probably has expierience in how to run away to not get shot, given that this is something he constantly does.
But the entire point is that this one scene contradicts generations of the doctor having trouble against opponents with human speed.
If it were his thought speed, like him activating his sonic screwdriver telepathically or timing something very precise (for example pulling the trigger of a gun at exactly the timing to hit he bullet whichs path he already aimed at), it would be a different story, but his movement speed is very consistently on human level and it would need a lot of evidence in order to overturn that, given it being a constant in a very long running show.
But the entire point is that this one scene contradicts generations of the doctor having trouble against opponents with human speed.
If it were his thought speed, like him activating his sonic screwdriver telepathically or timing something very precise (for example pulling the trigger of a gun at exactly the timing to hit he bullet whichs path he already aimed at), it would be a different story, but his movement speed is very consistently on human level and it would need a lot of evidence in order to overturn that, given it being a constant in a very long running show.
- 125
- 3
I think the idea is that the Doctor has been consistently show to have super fast thought speed, but in this case, it somehow translated to him being "fast enough" on the whole to do what he did in the scene. In any case, I suppose some poeple confound movment speed with reaction speed, and the notion that Time Lords have very good reflexes has been a long running thing in the show, so I can see where said confounding can lead to suggestions that the Doctor can move really fast. If the Doctor can shoot a whole bunch of bullets out of the air (which in theory he needs to aim and time for all of them), then he has to be really fast in that instant to do so, and no one with just normal human speed reflexes can do that.
Or we could just say he has canonical plot shields (which is a power the EU has stated he possesses with some regularity), which seems to be a catch-all explaination as to why the Doctor doesn't die when he really should have many times over.
Or we could just say he has canonical plot shields (which is a power the EU has stated he possesses with some regularity), which seems to be a catch-all explaination as to why the Doctor doesn't die when he really should have many times over.
Colonel_Krukov
🖖 Live long and prosper
He/HimVS Battles
FC/OC VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
Image Helper
- 8,616
- 10,807
I have made a word document detailing the speed of the Doctor (and the Master) processesing information quickly as well as some reaction feats.
"He is running and the androids keep missing."
You can clearly see in the next shot he's standing still and then reacts to the incoming lasers.
"But the entire point is that this one scene contradicts generations of the doctor having trouble against opponents with human speed."
Since when? He usually doesn't fight because of his personality, but I can show several instances of him in combat and he seems to be keeping up.
"He is running and the androids keep missing."
You can clearly see in the next shot he's standing still and then reacts to the incoming lasers.
"But the entire point is that this one scene contradicts generations of the doctor having trouble against opponents with human speed."
Since when? He usually doesn't fight because of his personality, but I can show several instances of him in combat and he seems to be keeping up.
Colonel_Krukov
🖖 Live long and prosper
He/HimVS Battles
FC/OC VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
Image Helper
- 8,616
- 10,807
Yes probably, I mean, his skills don't really change that much, plus he's been alive over 2000 years (billions if you count heaven sent) to master his skills.
- 125
- 3
Yeah, ok, that makes sense. I've seen several of those secenes you pointed out years ago. Can't believe I forgot about many of them until now. I take issue with the argument that the Doctor only has human level reflexes and speed, though. Even if not necessarily FTL+, at the very least, I believe he should be listed as much faster than a human.
Regarding the Doctor's combat and reaction feats, you can add this for him shooting bullets out of the air (seen at the start of Chapter 11 here https://books.google.ca/books?id=An...NjAC#v=onepage&q=shooting the bullets&f=false).
Regarding the Doctor's combat and reaction feats, you can add this for him shooting bullets out of the air (seen at the start of Chapter 11 here https://books.google.ca/books?id=An...NjAC#v=onepage&q=shooting the bullets&f=false).
Colonel_Krukov
🖖 Live long and prosper
He/HimVS Battles
FC/OC VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
Image Helper
- 8,616
- 10,807
I think this needs more input. Maybe a highlight, or I can contact someone who could have an opinion?
Colonel_Krukov
🖖 Live long and prosper
He/HimVS Battles
FC/OC VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
Image Helper
- 8,616
- 10,807
Hmmm, I guess he has to factor in many variables and take out the bullets, so possibly
Colonel_Krukov
🖖 Live long and prosper
He/HimVS Battles
FC/OC VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
Image Helper
- 8,616
- 10,807
Unless FTL+ is disagreed, everything is fine as it is.
- 925
- 525
Movement speed is the point of contention here, but impressive speed feats are fairly common for the Doctor. Some recent comics have some impressive movement feats, such as a skilled security guard not being able to so much as tag 11th Doctor well. I can't make any promises, but I'll look into there being more feats on the magnitude of what we have here. Stand by...
EDIT: Doctor Who is a very difficult francise to search through. If anyone happens to recall anything useful but needs citations, he may find this useful.
EDIT: Doctor Who is a very difficult francise to search through. If anyone happens to recall anything useful but needs citations, he may find this useful.
- 2,512
- 261
@Colonel Krukov:
I read through your document and as far as I can tell there isn't anything there that can be quantified to any impressive movement speed for the doctor (except the FTL+ calc feat that is disucssed here).
For some of the described scenes videos are missing, I think, and I didn't look them up further. So for those I didn't check further than description.
In regards to scenes which contradict this, I obviously don't have a list and would have to search through a bunch of episodes to find examples. I can do that if I have the time, though. To start with one I know spontanously: In "The day of the doctor" 3 doctors without companions got captured by human soldiers wielding spears. If they could move at FTL+ speed, even if it were only their arm, those would have been completly unthreatening to them. They could have straight up walked past them, defending themself without injuring anyone and run away from them, without being threatened in any way.
To give a second one I found on the tadis wikia by chance: "Missy recommended eight snipers, with three trained on each of her hearts and two for her brai stem, so that Clara Oswald could feel safe while speaking to her, noting that they'd have to "switch [her] off fast" before she could regenerate."
If someone can move FTL+ snipers are obviously in no way able to savely kill her or kill her at all. So given that the doctors movement speed would scale to her, this is a contradiction (though she could of course be lying due to obvious reasons)
@Lucafriz: By the description of that it doesn't actually need superhuman movement speed to do so. Shooting single bullets fired one after another out of the air if you can see the one shooting is just a matter of timing and precision it doesn't need fast movement.
I read through your document and as far as I can tell there isn't anything there that can be quantified to any impressive movement speed for the doctor (except the FTL+ calc feat that is disucssed here).
For some of the described scenes videos are missing, I think, and I didn't look them up further. So for those I didn't check further than description.
In regards to scenes which contradict this, I obviously don't have a list and would have to search through a bunch of episodes to find examples. I can do that if I have the time, though. To start with one I know spontanously: In "The day of the doctor" 3 doctors without companions got captured by human soldiers wielding spears. If they could move at FTL+ speed, even if it were only their arm, those would have been completly unthreatening to them. They could have straight up walked past them, defending themself without injuring anyone and run away from them, without being threatened in any way.
To give a second one I found on the tadis wikia by chance: "Missy recommended eight snipers, with three trained on each of her hearts and two for her brai stem, so that Clara Oswald could feel safe while speaking to her, noting that they'd have to "switch [her] off fast" before she could regenerate."
If someone can move FTL+ snipers are obviously in no way able to savely kill her or kill her at all. So given that the doctors movement speed would scale to her, this is a contradiction (though she could of course be lying due to obvious reasons)
@Lucafriz: By the description of that it doesn't actually need superhuman movement speed to do so. Shooting single bullets fired one after another out of the air if you can see the one shooting is just a matter of timing and precision it doesn't need fast movement.
- 925
- 525
Yeah, I'm thinking Peak Human-ish movement speed at most. Reactions are fine, though.
Colonel_Krukov
🖖 Live long and prosper
He/HimVS Battles
FC/OC VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
Image Helper
- 8,616
- 10,807
Some are from the respect thread over on Spacebattle forums.
The doctor wanted to get captured to be taken to the Tower of London so he could write the teleport base code so Clara could use it.
Missy was probably lying to her, and even if she wasn't, that doesn't disprove she is able to still dodge them.
The doctor wanted to get captured to be taken to the Tower of London so he could write the teleport base code so Clara could use it.
Missy was probably lying to her, and even if she wasn't, that doesn't disprove she is able to still dodge them.
- 2,512
- 261
@Colonel:
Before the tower was mentioned he didn't exactly was able to resist even though he obviously tried to get out of the situation and only one doctor had that motive. The other two didn't know that and non the less got captured.
And if there are quantified movement speed feats for the doctors than link those calcs.
Before the tower was mentioned he didn't exactly was able to resist even though he obviously tried to get out of the situation and only one doctor had that motive. The other two didn't know that and non the less got captured.
And if there are quantified movement speed feats for the doctors than link those calcs.
Colonel_Krukov
🖖 Live long and prosper
He/HimVS Battles
FC/OC VS Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
Image Helper
- 8,616
- 10,807
Well, they didn't seem uncomfortable, but he wasn't going to murder innocent people for sake of surrounding them. He's also fought people like Robin Hood with a spoon and dominated
There are no links to other calcs, just quotes from the respect thread
There are no links to other calcs, just quotes from the respect thread
- 125
- 3
I wouldn't be too sure about that. I'd argue that you would need to be a bullet timer at least to pull that off, given that arguably, shooting bullets out of the air is a much more complicated feat than straight up dodging them, so I'd argue that most characters who can do it should also be capable of dodging bullets as well. Besides, I know of no actual human who is fast enough to shoot bullets out of the air to begin with, though I'm open to being proven wrong on that.DontTalk said:
